My sister wants to play, does she have to buy a whole new game?

Mera_Luna · May 2014

Well strictly speaking it is not a CD-Key as such, it is an account activation code. Without a valid unused account activation code you cannot create an account to play.

On a side track regarding the quoted portions of the ToS;

If we do not own the account then basically ZOS is permitting us to use the account, which would seem to bring the question of liability (especially for losses to third parties) directly back to ZOS. Since ZOS remains the owner of the account could? would? should? they be held liable, since it is their "allowing" us to use their accounts that made the loss possible? How does due diligence factor in here. IS there any due diligence here if ZOS does not vet the buyers of the game prior to allowing them to purchase it?

Is the car rental agency liable for damages caused by the driver in case of an accident? Is the gun manufacturer liable for the damages caused by the user of the stolen gun? This is such an interesting thought I think I will post the question as a discussion topic in one of my other forums. At least now I have something to do during downtime

RastSekyd · May 2014

Ok, let's simplify this a bit. When you buy a game - any game, not just an MMO - you don't actually own the game or any of the content. You own a license to play said game. That license is defined in Section 3, "Limited License to Use". It specifically mentions that you cannot:

...transmit, publish, edit, reproduce, sublicense, rent, lease, loan or otherwise transfer any Game, Software, and/or Content, including without limitation any access keys...

Splitting the fee between two people would, as far as the law(and your agreement with ZeniMax) goes, be sub licensing. If the account was originally his and he gave it to her that would be transmitting. Using the his account in any way would be loaning. If she was paying the fee herself, it would be renting or leasing. "or otherwise transfer" covers all of these. Any of these could be considered "sharing", as the account does not belong to her. The fact that "sharing" isn't specifically mentioned does not make it a loophole, and that excuse would not likely be accepted.

Regarding the ownership of the account, the account(and the game) are merely licensed to you. This is the same for any piece of software. You don't own the software, you own a limited license to use the software. Regarding liabilities for any actions performed with the account, you also agreed that you are responsible:

You have sole liability for all activities on Your Account and/or under Your user names.

This is all defined in the same section of the ToS.

Saerydoth · May 2014

PVT_Parts wrote: »

Saerydoth wrote: »

ebuntsb14_ESO wrote: »

You know what I find funny, you have parents that bought the game (for a child, teen or younger), set up account using CC and the child is the one that plays the game (but not the parent/s).

Because the parent is the legal account holder, any child could not play according to the ToS. How many accounts would be closed if this was upheld by Zenimax.

There is a specific clause in the terms of service that allows one minor child to play an account in their parent's name. This is because a minor cannot legally agree to the terms of service.

axiod wrote: »

GossiTheDog wrote: »

A minor isn't even allowed to play the game as the game is rated Mature.

Parent's permission overrides that.. just like you can watch a R rated movie in the theater with a parent.. sigh.. [btw, I wish they would add a "roll your eyes" emote ]

That can't be entirely true because said minor could not even access the ESO home page with or without parents permission. Besides, minors are not legally bound by any TOS so they can choose to break it. Besides, who cares, they can't play 2 characters at the same time. It would be fun to watch them fight over who gets to play and when. Survival of the fittest. Battle to the death.

P.S. ESO is overpriced, if you do chose to buy a second copy for your sister, make sure you purchase it from a 3rd party site. You can get it for as cheaply as $45. Check out the link at the bottom of twitch.tv/likeaspeed6 the G2A picture will get you a copy for $45.

The parent is liable for anything the minor child does on the account. That's how it works.

PVT_Parts · May 2014

RastSekyd wrote: »

Ok, let's simplify this a bit. When you buy a game - any game, not just an MMO - you don't actually own the game or any of the content. You own a license to play said game. That license is defined in Section 3, "Limited License to Use". It specifically mentions that you cannot:

...transmit, publish, edit, reproduce, sublicense, rent, lease, loan or otherwise transfer any Game, Software, and/or Content, including without limitation any access keys...

Splitting the fee between two people would, as far as the law(and your agreement with ZeniMax) goes, be sub licensing. If the account was originally his and he gave it to her that would be transmitting. Using the his account in any way would be loaning. If she was paying the fee herself, it would be renting or leasing. "or otherwise transfer" covers all of these. Any of these could be considered "sharing", as the account does not belong to her. The fact that "sharing" isn't specifically mentioned does not make it a loophole, and that excuse would not likely be accepted.

Regarding the ownership of the account, the account(and the game) are merely licensed to you. This is the same for any piece of software. You don't own the software, you own a limited license to use the software. Regarding liabilities for any actions performed with the account, you also agreed that you are responsible:

You have sole liability for all activities on Your Account and/or under Your user names.

This is all defined in the same section of the ToS.

Actually, the definitions of transmitting and loaning come into play here. If the sister does not pay the brother any fee, then it would not fall under anything listed as long as the game was downloaded onto her computer prior to any sharing. Transmission and transfer deal with movement. This would not involve any movement, just the use of the account. It also would not be "lent" because lending entitles that one person is borrowing something(usually for money) but instead they would be jointly using said account, not leasing, lending, transmitting, etc.

PVT_Parts · May 2014

Saerydoth wrote: »

PVT_Parts wrote: »

Saerydoth wrote: »

ebuntsb14_ESO wrote: »

You know what I find funny, you have parents that bought the game (for a child, teen or younger), set up account using CC and the child is the one that plays the game (but not the parent/s).

Because the parent is the legal account holder, any child could not play according to the ToS. How many accounts would be closed if this was upheld by Zenimax.

There is a specific clause in the terms of service that allows one minor child to play an account in their parent's name. This is because a minor cannot legally agree to the terms of service.

axiod wrote: »

GossiTheDog wrote: »

A minor isn't even allowed to play the game as the game is rated Mature.

Parent's permission overrides that.. just like you can watch a R rated movie in the theater with a parent.. sigh.. [btw, I wish they would add a "roll your eyes" emote ]

That can't be entirely true because said minor could not even access the ESO home page with or without parents permission. Besides, minors are not legally bound by any TOS so they can choose to break it. Besides, who cares, they can't play 2 characters at the same time. It would be fun to watch them fight over who gets to play and when. Survival of the fittest. Battle to the death.

P.S. ESO is overpriced, if you do chose to buy a second copy for your sister, make sure you purchase it from a 3rd party site. You can get it for as cheaply as $45. Check out the link at the bottom of twitch.tv/likeaspeed6 the G2A picture will get you a copy for $45.

The parent is liable for anything the minor child does on the account. That's how it works.

Yes, the parents would be libel had they actually downloaded said game. The game is rated M so you have to be 17+ in the US to purchase it. However, in most cases they would have just purchased it and given the code to the minor. The TOS are not agreed upon while purchasing, rather when the account is created. The parents in most cases would not be anymore libel than the minors because the minors are the ones who agreed to the TOS, which is not legally binding. The problem ZOS has with their marketing and TOS is that they have you purchase the code, possibly from a 3rd party, without notifying you of any TOS until you set up your account. So legally, anything you do with your code is none of their authority even when stated in the TOS because you purchased that code before any TOS were agreed upon. Perhaps this could be different if you purchased the game from the ESO official site, I don't know the order of if you are presented the TOS before buying the code or after, I bought the code from a 3rd party and did not agree to the TOS till later. This makes that code mine because it was given to me before any TOS were agreed upon.

Syzmicke · May 2014

ZOS_TristanK wrote: »

Hi there, @Charles_A. Sharing accounts is against our Terms of Service, so your sister would have to set up her own account and subscription in order to play.

So is playing Bots but that dont seem to bother you a whole lot

zaria · May 2014

Reenlister wrote: »

Saerydoth wrote: »

michaelpatrickjonesnub18_ESO wrote: »

At these prices it's probably best to share an account.

Mom gets her fix in the daytime. Son comes home from school, plays his character for a couple hours. Pops couldn't care less about ESO. And the daughter, she's into boys, not Betty Netches.

Sharing accounts is against the ToS.

Aye see my post above.
Also see, I know this never happens, and no one would ever condone such a thing in their house and tell of it on the boards... cough cough...

LOL remeber in wow I was flying over the starting area outside stormwind, saw somebody with problems so I rushed in to help, he had managed to pul a lots of mob who I killed, then I tried to talk but he only run away like a headless chicken, I watched a bit thinking it might be a bot. However it made no sense, just using auto attack and one other, out leveled the area a great deal and was obvious clueless so I guess it was an small kid playing an alt on his brothers computer.

PVT_Parts · May 2014

We can at least all agree that the TOS say, and I quote, "We don't care about you, the customer, and can do anything we feel like because you clicked agree.

Reykice · May 2014

Most of the TOS had no value depending on where you live... they can say whatever they want in there...

Also if you play from the same house there is no way they can see how many people are playing... hell in EVE we had 20 people share the account that had a Titan on it... same thing in WOW, SWTOR, rift etc. where a few people had access to the account with the Master Crafter and in WOW/Rift they had the game policed quite well but they usually allow that kind of thing as a lot of people do it.

In ESO they can`t even figure out to ban the bots flying and teleporting in front of them... so you really have nothing to worry.

Squishy · May 2014

In most countries, the EULA/TOS are void, since they are more restrictive than consumer laws.

As stated in another post, the EULA/TOS are only presented after the purchase of a product, and after/during the installation of the software, meaning that once the box is opened and the card scratched, you can sit on for a refund for a seller

.

So basically, any MMO has no legal basis for the TOS, since they should be signed before you make the purchase, for them to have any value at all

. Many countries do not recognise a "I accept" click, as legally binding either, so ... you know... lot of text, but it has little to no actual value legally speaking

.

Censorious · May 2014

ZOS_TristanK wrote: »

Hi there, @Charles_A. Sharing accounts is against our Terms of Service, so your sister would have to set up her own account and subscription in order to play.

This of course is always going to be the 'official' position.

If you find a parking meter with a few minutes unexpired time on it, do you immediately look for a traffic warden and ask if it's OK to use it?
Some would say that's a dumb thing to do.

PVT_Parts · May 2014

RastSekyd wrote: »

Ok, let's simplify this a bit. When you buy a game - any game, not just an MMO - you don't actually own the game or any of the content. You own a license to play said game. That license is defined in Section 3, "Limited License to Use". It specifically mentions that you cannot:

...transmit, publish, edit, reproduce, sublicense, rent, lease, loan or otherwise transfer any Game, Software, and/or Content, including without limitation any access keys...

Splitting the fee between two people would, as far as the law(and your agreement with ZeniMax) goes, be sub licensing. If the account was originally his and he gave it to her that would be transmitting. Using the his account in any way would be loaning. If she was paying the fee herself, it would be renting or leasing. "or otherwise transfer" covers all of these. Any of these could be considered "sharing", as the account does not belong to her. The fact that "sharing" isn't specifically mentioned does not make it a loophole, and that excuse would not likely be accepted.

Regarding the ownership of the account, the account(and the game) are merely licensed to you. This is the same for any piece of software. You don't own the software, you own a limited license to use the software. Regarding liabilities for any actions performed with the account, you also agreed that you are responsible:

You have sole liability for all activities on Your Account and/or under Your user names.

This is all defined in the same section of the ToS.

Your last point is not correct. See my previous post about "your account." You are not libel for anything that quote on the TOS says because in the paragraph before it, it says that you do not own the account or user name. Then they use "your account" in the next paragraph, but there is not "your account" because you do not own it.

Minicik · May 2014

ZOS_TristanK wrote: »

Hi there, @Charles_A. Sharing accounts is against our Terms of Service, so your sister would have to set up her own account and subscription in order to play.

Lol what????

We can't share the same accounts?
-Can we play this game on seperate clients with the same acc?-->NO!
Stop being funny guys.

Jim_McMasterub17_ESO · May 2014

In the length of time this thread has been posted, four people I know have bought, tried, & quit this game. Soooooo......

kevjon74_ESO · May 2014

PVT_Parts wrote: »

The game is rated M so you have to be 17+ in the US to purchase it.

The hell? This game is rated 'M'? If that's the case, then they really should have taken advantage of it and added blood effects and some tittays. It's pretty sesame-street as it stands, and completely unworthy of an 'M'.

gunplummer · May 2014

I wonder how this will work on xbox1 which is designed for a shared family account. If you download a game through the xbox live store anyone can access that game as long as the game has been downloaded to the console and they sign in. You would still have to set up an account through Zos, but the console does not spilt the HD based on accounts, individual saves are stored in the cloud and require re-syncing every time you go online. CoD, BF4, Assassin's Creed all work this way so I don't know how Zos will get around this, which maybe some of the reason for the 6 month delay.

The game key may solve this problem like on a shared PC, but since you can't have multiple copies because of limited HD space buying 1 imperial and one standard could potentially give all accounts access to imperial edition especially if bought through xboxlive store or another company instead of through the ESO store. Xbox even has a separate area for entering game codes so you don't have to do it through the game.

The other issue will be tracking your account to a single machine/ip address. With a console you will have multiple accounts accessing from the same console. Will you have to verify your account every time you sign in after some else has played ESO? It will be interesting to see if the TOS will change for consoles given that xbox1's main selling point was one machine for all of your family's entertainment needs.

AlexDougherty · May 2014

gunplummer wrote: »

I wonder how this will work on xbox1 which is designed for a shared family account. If you download a game through the xbox live store anyone can access that game as long as the game has been downloaded to the console and they sign in.

Well Xbox1 and PS4 games would be on seperate servers, so they'll probably have to allow shared accounts on the consoles.

Rosveen · May 2014

kevjon74_ESO wrote: »

PVT_Parts wrote: »

The game is rated M so you have to be 17+ in the US to purchase it.

The hell? This game is rated 'M'? If that's the case, then they really should have taken advantage of it and added blood effects and some tittays. It's pretty sesame-street as it stands, and completely unworthy of an 'M'.

You realize that mature themes aren't just sex and gore, right?

epoling · May 2014

Jim_McMasterub17_ESO wrote: »

In the length of time this thread has been posted, four people I know have bought, tried, & quit this game. Soooooo......

LOL - so they spent $60 on a game and gave it less than 24 hours to determine whether or not they liked it? LOL - The perfect example of more money than sense.

ZOS_TristanK · May 2014

Charles_A wrote: »

ZOS_TristanK wrote: »

Hi there, @Charles_A. Sharing accounts is against our Terms of Service, so your sister would have to set up her own account and subscription in order to play.

No, I mean can she just set up the game on her computer, and then pay for a subscription fee? Or does she have to pay the $70 as well?

@Moonraker is correct. In order to player ESO, your sister will have to purchase her own game code to activate her account.

Gelfling · May 2014

Regardless of legal issues I would imagine it would get bloody confusing for everyone else that knows one of you due to the game showing you by account and not character. Something that's also annoying for many roleplayers.

Dita · May 2014

Charles_A wrote: »

My sister wants to play, does she have to buy a whole new game?

If you like your sister - tell her not to do it ! But if you want to get back at her for something she did to you - you couldn't come to a better decision for a revenge type ! Tell her : "Yes, you have to give this awesome company your money!"

KerinKor · May 2014

Maverick827 wrote: »

Most MMO have a "no sharing" clause in their ToS to prevent you from sharing your account between people across the world, but they typically don't pursue people for sharing their accounts with people who live in the same house because it's impossible to track that and also because doing so would be dumb.

Interestingly the much maligned Blizzard DOES allow for parent/child sharing up until the child is 18.

As far as I know they're only MMO company that has a positive policy for this.

Ultimately of course it's simply corporate greed. Since you can only log in one client at a time it makes no difference whether one or ten people use the account, only one can ever be in-game at once and the sub is for 24/7, there is no stipulated number of hours you can play per day.

The developer loses no money by sharing, it's simply hubris on their part to imply they do.

KerinKor · May 2014

PVT_Parts wrote: »

In the first paragraph it states that we DO NOT own the account. However, in the second paragraph, it is clearly stated "Your account" which indicated ownership.

No, your doesn't imply ownership at all, and no lawyer would be crass enough to try to argue it does. YOU created the account and YOU manage it but that doesn't remotely translate to you owning it.

For example, when you sign into a hotel and the receptionist tells you "your room is number 5" they clearly aren't saying you now own that room.

Slantasiam · May 2014

lol don't be greedy give her one of your account spots make a alt for her....

dannymcgr81b14_ESO · May 2014

Basically what it comes down to is this. You are not supposed to let anyone else play your account. If someone else in your house plays your account no one will know. If you let someone play your account and they do something to get it banned you are gone with no recourse. If they get mad at you and delete your characters you are out of luck. It's just best not to do it.

Nazon_Katts · May 2014

Currently physical standard editions are on sale all around, so if it doesn't have to be the Imperial Edition, you can get an additional account rather cheap.