BG Leaderboard top players are all healers

SkaraMinoc
SkaraMinoc
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As predicted, using medals as points for the Competitive BG leaderboard results in the top players being healers. It doesn't matter their win:loss ratio or anything else. All they need to do is cheese heal badges.
PC NA
  • Bashev
    Bashev
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    Rewards are useless, ranking is useless, the worst thing will be that the MMR is based on this medals so at some point it will be maybe each team with 2 healers or even 3 healers. And the worse will be in one team 3 healers in the other no healers at all.
    Because I can!
  • SkaraMinoc
    SkaraMinoc
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    As a healer, my first 3 battlegrounds were losses but I got placed in the Top 5 in the leaderboard.

    eVdXi3I.jpeg
    Edited by SkaraMinoc on October 28, 2024 3:28PM
    PC NA
  • SkaraMinoc
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    @ZOS_Kevin

    Hey Kevin, the leaderboard is not designed for competitive gameplay. It should not be based on medal score like we warned about for weeks on the PTS forums. It should be based on wins and losses.
    PC NA
  • SkaraMinoc
    SkaraMinoc
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    I've won 1 out of 4 competitive battlegrounds this morning and I'm Rank 2. I shouldn't even be in the Top 50.

    Edited by SkaraMinoc on October 28, 2024 6:47PM
    PC NA
  • IncultaWolf
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    SkaraMinoc wrote: »
    I've won 1 out of 4 competitive battlegrounds this morning and I'm Rank 2. I shouldn't even be in the Top 50.

    Gotta love those broken critical heal medals, really easy to get 10k+ score on sorcerer healer with the bird
  • Necrotech_Master
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    Bashev wrote: »
    Rewards are useless, ranking is useless, the worst thing will be that the MMR is based on this medals so at some point it will be maybe each team with 2 healers or even 3 healers. And the worse will be in one team 3 healers in the other no healers at all.

    they have clearly stated that the MMR itself is not based on medals, but win/loss

    leaderboards being based on medal score though is problematic for the actual rewards though
    plays PC/NA
    handle @Necrotech_Master
    active player since april 2014

    i have my main house (grand topal hideaway) listed in the housing tours, it has multiple target dummies, scribing altar, and grandmaster stations (in progress being filled out), as well as almost every antiquity furnishing on display to preview them

    feel free to stop by and use the facilities
  • CameraBeardThePirate
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    SkaraMinoc wrote: »
    I've won 1 out of 4 competitive battlegrounds this morning and I'm Rank 2. I shouldn't even be in the Top 50.

    Gotta love those broken critical heal medals, really easy to get 10k+ score on sorcerer healer with the bird

    Love it almost as much as I love my Necro Shielder not receiving any medal score.
  • Bashev
    Bashev
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    Bashev wrote: »
    Rewards are useless, ranking is useless, the worst thing will be that the MMR is based on this medals so at some point it will be maybe each team with 2 healers or even 3 healers. And the worse will be in one team 3 healers in the other no healers at all.

    they have clearly stated that the MMR itself is not based on medals, but win/loss

    leaderboards being based on medal score though is problematic for the actual rewards though

    I dnt believe that. Brian said in the live show that it is based on medals. Later they were some posts that it was on win and lose but this is just sand in our eyes. Until they publish more info how they calculate MMR i dont believe that it is based on win/lose
    Because I can!
  • Necrotech_Master
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    Bashev wrote: »
    Bashev wrote: »
    Rewards are useless, ranking is useless, the worst thing will be that the MMR is based on this medals so at some point it will be maybe each team with 2 healers or even 3 healers. And the worse will be in one team 3 healers in the other no healers at all.

    they have clearly stated that the MMR itself is not based on medals, but win/loss

    leaderboards being based on medal score though is problematic for the actual rewards though

    I dnt believe that. Brian said in the live show that it is based on medals. Later they were some posts that it was on win and lose but this is just sand in our eyes. Until they publish more info how they calculate MMR i dont believe that it is based on win/lose

    they stated it in one of the patch notes for this PTS, and i think zos kevin even noted it in a few other threads in the PTS

    in the 10.2.2 patch notes the developer note states:
    There has been some misconception that MMR is derived from Medals, which is not the case. MMR is purely based on your Win/Loss/Tie from Battlegrounds. This calculation also takes into account your opponent’s MMR to determine the amount of gain or loss your MMR takes at the end of a Battleground.

    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8197818/#Comment_8197818
    plays PC/NA
    handle @Necrotech_Master
    active player since april 2014

    i have my main house (grand topal hideaway) listed in the housing tours, it has multiple target dummies, scribing altar, and grandmaster stations (in progress being filled out), as well as almost every antiquity furnishing on display to preview them

    feel free to stop by and use the facilities
  • Bashev
    Bashev
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    Bashev wrote: »
    Bashev wrote: »
    Rewards are useless, ranking is useless, the worst thing will be that the MMR is based on this medals so at some point it will be maybe each team with 2 healers or even 3 healers. And the worse will be in one team 3 healers in the other no healers at all.

    they have clearly stated that the MMR itself is not based on medals, but win/loss

    leaderboards being based on medal score though is problematic for the actual rewards though

    I dnt believe that. Brian said in the live show that it is based on medals. Later they were some posts that it was on win and lose but this is just sand in our eyes. Until they publish more info how they calculate MMR i dont believe that it is based on win/lose

    they stated it in one of the patch notes for this PTS, and i think zos kevin even noted it in a few other threads in the PTS

    in the 10.2.2 patch notes the developer note states:
    There has been some misconception that MMR is derived from Medals, which is not the case. MMR is purely based on your Win/Loss/Tie from Battlegrounds. This calculation also takes into account your opponent’s MMR to determine the amount of gain or loss your MMR takes at the end of a Battleground.

    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8197818/#Comment_8197818

    If this was the case, then they would use that stat for ranking and not the medals one. I still dont believe it until i see it.
    Because I can!
  • NordSwordnBoard
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    So... now healers will be begging DDs to come play BGs to support staying top on the leaderboard. It's like the inverse of Emperor in Cyrodiil.

    "LF pocket DDs, whisper for group"

    I suppose this feels good for healers? The ones that don't use too much shields or pets of course...
    Fear is the Mindkiller
  • Servadei
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    So what you're saying is I should go in with my healer and cheese the leaderboards.
  • Ren_TheRedFox
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    tbf I'm on the leaderboards rank 2 rn but I'm on an arcanist ... my chakram heals don't count towards my AP anyways :P so it's hard earned given the fact that I have rounds where I only get 800 AP and am on the bottom of the board even though I put in the most effort on my team. And yes it's really not that hard to get a 5k score with bird spams and templar ulti spams.
    Edited by Ren_TheRedFox on October 28, 2024 6:34PM
    PC NA and EU
  • colossalvoids
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    Not sure why they thought that competitive part should have medals and stuff, that's pretty weak system for obvious reasons to be called competitive.
  • Major_Mangle
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    What´s even more scuffed is the fact that there is only one leaderboard. If you gonna have separate "competitive" queues for solo and group you should also have separate leaderboards.
    Ps4 EU 2016-2020
    PC/EU: 2020 -
  • SkaraMinoc
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    What´s even more scuffed is the fact that there is only one leaderboard. If you gonna have separate "competitive" queues for solo and group you should also have separate leaderboards.

    There should be 2

    4v4 Competitive Leaderboard - mmr
    8v8 Casual Leaderboard - Medal score

    Medal score is totally fine for the casual game mode. Not for competitive.

    Just make it like this.

    https://worldofwarcraft.blizzard.com/en-us/game/pvp/leaderboards/3v3

    Rating, Wins, Losses

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    PC NA
  • ZOS_Kevin
    ZOS_Kevin
    Community Manager
    Hi all, thanks for flagging this for us. We are actively investigating this.
    Community Manager for ZeniMax Online Studio and Elder Scrolls OnlineDev Tracker | Service Alerts | ESO Twitter
    Staff Post
  • Necrotech_Master
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    Bashev wrote: »
    Bashev wrote: »
    Bashev wrote: »
    Rewards are useless, ranking is useless, the worst thing will be that the MMR is based on this medals so at some point it will be maybe each team with 2 healers or even 3 healers. And the worse will be in one team 3 healers in the other no healers at all.

    they have clearly stated that the MMR itself is not based on medals, but win/loss

    leaderboards being based on medal score though is problematic for the actual rewards though

    I dnt believe that. Brian said in the live show that it is based on medals. Later they were some posts that it was on win and lose but this is just sand in our eyes. Until they publish more info how they calculate MMR i dont believe that it is based on win/lose

    they stated it in one of the patch notes for this PTS, and i think zos kevin even noted it in a few other threads in the PTS

    in the 10.2.2 patch notes the developer note states:
    There has been some misconception that MMR is derived from Medals, which is not the case. MMR is purely based on your Win/Loss/Tie from Battlegrounds. This calculation also takes into account your opponent’s MMR to determine the amount of gain or loss your MMR takes at the end of a Battleground.

    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8197818/#Comment_8197818

    If this was the case, then they would use that stat for ranking and not the medals one. I still dont believe it until i see it.

    players on PTS have been suggesting that should have been done initially for sure, i dont know why a win/loss isnt used for the leaderboards

    leaderboards does not always equal MMR though, they could be using win/loss metrics for MMR and medals for leaderboards, it absolutely doesnt make sense but that seems to be what they are doing
    plays PC/NA
    handle @Necrotech_Master
    active player since april 2014

    i have my main house (grand topal hideaway) listed in the housing tours, it has multiple target dummies, scribing altar, and grandmaster stations (in progress being filled out), as well as almost every antiquity furnishing on display to preview them

    feel free to stop by and use the facilities
  • darvaria
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    @SkaraMinoc

    Weren't you always on top of leader board? I don't BG that much but when I see you there, you usually have 5k plus points. And number 1. I usually score close to 3k, sometimes 4k and am 2nd or 3rd. Once in a while if no one really pro (like you) is there I can have high score with 4500 ish points.

    So, I don't seem them any different. I'm still getting around 3K with 2nd - 4th place in personal score. I don't even look at wins. I would sort of expect to see you on leader boards. I didn't think wins have anything to do with leader board does it?

    (also, since I have you here, do you have a special build for BG's or use the one you use at GH ....I see you a lot at BG's, not as much at Cyro, could be time issue)
    Edited by darvaria on October 28, 2024 9:56PM
  • Treeshka
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    Well medal points need balancing. Killing someone while defending a flag gives you 5 points via Defensive Execution medal, and 10 for Offensive Execution medal if you kill someone while they defend their flag.
    Healing someone for a great amount of hit points gives you 100 medal points. Either defensive execution should give 100 or that healing medal should be reduced to 10 or 5 as well. I said great amount of hit points because i do not know the exact value but i think it is around 10 000 or more.
  • CameraBeardThePirate
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    ZOS_Kevin wrote: »
    Hi all, thanks for flagging this for us. We are actively investigating this.

    How about the team investigates the fact that Shielding and Pet Damage/Healing doesn't count for anything scoreboard-wise OR Medal Score-wise? It was reported so early on in the PTS cycle and yet the devs pushed a system through that actively discriminates against an entire class and playstyle.
  • Stafford197
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    “Investigating”? Seriously? How can anything here require investigation at this point.

    The community has provided you 7 years of feedback on Battlegrounds. Not even to mention the recent U44 PTS cycle. Players notified you of every single issue that would surface post-launch if you did not make any changes. These issues are only a surprise to people who are not familiar with BGs….
  • CameraBeardThePirate
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    “Investigating”? Seriously? How can anything here require investigation at this point.

    The community has provided you 7 years of feedback on Battlegrounds. Not even to mention the recent U44 PTS cycle. Players notified you of every single issue that would surface post-launch if you did not make any changes. These issues are only a surprise to people who are not familiar with BGs….

    That's the most baffling part. All of these issues are issues players pointed out extremely early on in PTS, and some of these issues, like the Pet Healing/Pet Damage/Shielding thing, have existed since the introduction of BGs, and have been discussed/reported at multiple points over the years.

    What's the point of PTS if obvious and glaring issues like this get pointed out in week 1 but never fixed? Why even allow us to give feedback at all if none of the glaring issues people point out get addressed?
    Edited by CameraBeardThePirate on October 29, 2024 1:11AM
  • Ren_TheRedFox
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    @CameraBeardThePirate totally agree with that ... been doing BGs all day on my arcanist healer who mainly uses the chakram as heals and guess what ... last place when it comes to deathmatch even though on the other team the healer is number one ... biggest joke so far was seeing someone earn 5k AP while I'm down at 800 AP even though I kept my whole team alive both rounds ... probably played more than 60 bgs at this point today and I'm still not able to pass a pet sorc healer who just spams bird heals cause the score doesn't count with shields ... biggest joke ever ... I don't care about the score at all but I think it's unfair towards all the shielders and shield healers out there.
    PC NA and EU
  • IncultaWolf
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    x527s8l6q329.png
  • merevie
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    So basically the healers are the same as 'Emperors' from the 60 pve people daily doing Pay-To-Emp zerg in GH.
    Edited by merevie on October 29, 2024 6:09AM
  • ZOS_Kevin
    ZOS_Kevin
    Community Manager
    Good Morning, All. We are following up on the reports here of healers gaining the top spots on the Battlegrounds Leaderboards. We have identified this is not working as intended. We have also identified the bug causing this issue for healers scoring above and beyond intended. We are working toward a fix now for a future incremental.

    Once this is resolved, we will reset the leaderboards.
    Community Manager for ZeniMax Online Studio and Elder Scrolls OnlineDev Tracker | Service Alerts | ESO Twitter
    Staff Post
  • Tommy_The_Gun
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    I guess it is a nice & fresh departure from all those moba games where only DPS, DPS, DPS ! ! & kill stealing & good K/D ratio matters & tanks, healers & supports are not credited at all lol. Something new for a change ;)
  • CameraBeardThePirate
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    ZOS_Kevin wrote: »
    Good Morning, All. We are following up on the reports here of healers gaining the top spots on the Battlegrounds Leaderboards. We have identified this is not working as intended. We have also identified the bug causing this issue for healers scoring above and beyond intended. We are working toward a fix now for a future incremental.

    Once this is resolved, we will reset the leaderboards.

    @ZOS_Kevin And what about the issue that was brought up Week 1 of PTS, where Necromancers and Shielders are not climbing leaderboards very much at all due to Pet Damage, Pet Healing, and Shielding done not counting for anything? The issues go hand in hand with the healer crit heal medals. If you fix one but not the other, the leaderboards are still meaningless because they'll still be skewed towards some builds.
    Edited by CameraBeardThePirate on October 29, 2024 2:15PM
  • buzzclops
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    Bashev wrote: »
    Bashev wrote: »
    Rewards are useless, ranking is useless, the worst thing will be that the MMR is based on this medals so at some point it will be maybe each team with 2 healers or even 3 healers. And the worse will be in one team 3 healers in the other no healers at all.

    they have clearly stated that the MMR itself is not based on medals, but win/loss

    leaderboards being based on medal score though is problematic for the actual rewards though

    I dnt believe that. Brian said in the live show that it is based on medals. Later they were some posts that it was on win and lose but this is just sand in our eyes. Until they publish more info how they calculate MMR i dont believe that it is based on win/lose

    Wouldn’t be the first time (or the last) that they gaslight the PvP playerbase. It is clearly medal score and nothing else. They’ll keep saying this until something else takes the lead of our frustration and we move on and it gets buried for 8 years again. Eso for pvpers is basically a toxic push and pull relationship lmao. Vote with your wallets friends
    Edited by buzzclops on October 29, 2024 2:59PM
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