BG Leaderboard top players are all healers

SkaraMinoc · October 28

As predicted, using medals as points for the Competitive BG leaderboard results in the top players being healers. It doesn't matter their win:loss ratio or anything else. All they need to do is cheese heal badges.

Bashev · October 28

Rewards are useless, ranking is useless, the worst thing will be that the MMR is based on this medals so at some point it will be maybe each team with 2 healers or even 3 healers. And the worse will be in one team 3 healers in the other no healers at all.

SkaraMinoc · October 28

As a healer, my first 3 battlegrounds were losses but I got placed in the Top 5 in the leaderboard.

SkaraMinoc · October 28

@ZOS_Kevin

Hey Kevin, the leaderboard is not designed for competitive gameplay. It should not be based on medal score like we warned about for weeks on the PTS forums. It should be based on wins and losses.

SkaraMinoc · October 28

I've won 1 out of 4 competitive battlegrounds this morning and I'm Rank 2. I shouldn't even be in the Top 50.

IncultaWolf · October 28

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

I've won 1 out of 4 competitive battlegrounds this morning and I'm Rank 2. I shouldn't even be in the Top 50.

Gotta love those broken critical heal medals, really easy to get 10k+ score on sorcerer healer with the bird

Necrotech_Master · October 28

Bashev wrote: »

Rewards are useless, ranking is useless, the worst thing will be that the MMR is based on this medals so at some point it will be maybe each team with 2 healers or even 3 healers. And the worse will be in one team 3 healers in the other no healers at all.

they have clearly stated that the MMR itself is not based on medals, but win/loss

leaderboards being based on medal score though is problematic for the actual rewards though

CameraBeardThePirate · October 28

IncultaWolf wrote: »

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

I've won 1 out of 4 competitive battlegrounds this morning and I'm Rank 2. I shouldn't even be in the Top 50.

Gotta love those broken critical heal medals, really easy to get 10k+ score on sorcerer healer with the bird

Love it almost as much as I love my Necro Shielder not receiving any medal score.

Bashev · October 28

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

Rewards are useless, ranking is useless, the worst thing will be that the MMR is based on this medals so at some point it will be maybe each team with 2 healers or even 3 healers. And the worse will be in one team 3 healers in the other no healers at all.

they have clearly stated that the MMR itself is not based on medals, but win/loss

leaderboards being based on medal score though is problematic for the actual rewards though

I dnt believe that. Brian said in the live show that it is based on medals. Later they were some posts that it was on win and lose but this is just sand in our eyes. Until they publish more info how they calculate MMR i dont believe that it is based on win/lose

Necrotech_Master · October 28

Bashev wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

Rewards are useless, ranking is useless, the worst thing will be that the MMR is based on this medals so at some point it will be maybe each team with 2 healers or even 3 healers. And the worse will be in one team 3 healers in the other no healers at all.

they have clearly stated that the MMR itself is not based on medals, but win/loss

leaderboards being based on medal score though is problematic for the actual rewards though

I dnt believe that. Brian said in the live show that it is based on medals. Later they were some posts that it was on win and lose but this is just sand in our eyes. Until they publish more info how they calculate MMR i dont believe that it is based on win/lose

they stated it in one of the patch notes for this PTS, and i think zos kevin even noted it in a few other threads in the PTS

in the 10.2.2 patch notes the developer note states:

There has been some misconception that MMR is derived from Medals, which is not the case. MMR is purely based on your Win/Loss/Tie from Battlegrounds. This calculation also takes into account your opponent’s MMR to determine the amount of gain or loss your MMR takes at the end of a Battleground.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8197818/#Comment_8197818

Bashev · October 28

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

Rewards are useless, ranking is useless, the worst thing will be that the MMR is based on this medals so at some point it will be maybe each team with 2 healers or even 3 healers. And the worse will be in one team 3 healers in the other no healers at all.

they have clearly stated that the MMR itself is not based on medals, but win/loss

leaderboards being based on medal score though is problematic for the actual rewards though

I dnt believe that. Brian said in the live show that it is based on medals. Later they were some posts that it was on win and lose but this is just sand in our eyes. Until they publish more info how they calculate MMR i dont believe that it is based on win/lose

they stated it in one of the patch notes for this PTS, and i think zos kevin even noted it in a few other threads in the PTS

in the 10.2.2 patch notes the developer note states:

There has been some misconception that MMR is derived from Medals, which is not the case. MMR is purely based on your Win/Loss/Tie from Battlegrounds. This calculation also takes into account your opponent’s MMR to determine the amount of gain or loss your MMR takes at the end of a Battleground.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8197818/#Comment_8197818

If this was the case, then they would use that stat for ranking and not the medals one. I still dont believe it until i see it.

NordSwordnBoard · October 28

So... now healers will be begging DDs to come play BGs to support staying top on the leaderboard. It's like the inverse of Emperor in Cyrodiil.

"LF pocket DDs, whisper for group"

I suppose this feels good for healers? The ones that don't use too much shields or pets of course...

Servadei · October 28

So what you're saying is I should go in with my healer and cheese the leaderboards.

Ren_TheRedFox · October 28

tbf I'm on the leaderboards rank 2 rn but I'm on an arcanist ... my chakram heals don't count towards my AP anyways :P so it's hard earned given the fact that I have rounds where I only get 800 AP and am on the bottom of the board even though I put in the most effort on my team. And yes it's really not that hard to get a 5k score with bird spams and templar ulti spams.

colossalvoids · October 28

Not sure why they thought that competitive part should have medals and stuff, that's pretty weak system for obvious reasons to be called competitive.

Major_Mangle · October 28

What´s even more scuffed is the fact that there is only one leaderboard. If you gonna have separate "competitive" queues for solo and group you should also have separate leaderboards.

SkaraMinoc · October 28

Major_Mangle wrote: »

What´s even more scuffed is the fact that there is only one leaderboard. If you gonna have separate "competitive" queues for solo and group you should also have separate leaderboards.

There should be 2

4v4 Competitive Leaderboard - mmr
8v8 Casual Leaderboard - Medal score

Medal score is totally fine for the casual game mode. Not for competitive.

Just make it like this.

https://worldofwarcraft.blizzard.com/en-us/game/pvp/leaderboards/3v3

Rating, Wins, Losses

ZOS_Kevin · October 28

Hi all, thanks for flagging this for us. We are actively investigating this.

Necrotech_Master · October 28

Bashev wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

Rewards are useless, ranking is useless, the worst thing will be that the MMR is based on this medals so at some point it will be maybe each team with 2 healers or even 3 healers. And the worse will be in one team 3 healers in the other no healers at all.

they have clearly stated that the MMR itself is not based on medals, but win/loss

leaderboards being based on medal score though is problematic for the actual rewards though

I dnt believe that. Brian said in the live show that it is based on medals. Later they were some posts that it was on win and lose but this is just sand in our eyes. Until they publish more info how they calculate MMR i dont believe that it is based on win/lose

they stated it in one of the patch notes for this PTS, and i think zos kevin even noted it in a few other threads in the PTS

in the 10.2.2 patch notes the developer note states:

There has been some misconception that MMR is derived from Medals, which is not the case. MMR is purely based on your Win/Loss/Tie from Battlegrounds. This calculation also takes into account your opponent’s MMR to determine the amount of gain or loss your MMR takes at the end of a Battleground.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8197818/#Comment_8197818

If this was the case, then they would use that stat for ranking and not the medals one. I still dont believe it until i see it.

players on PTS have been suggesting that should have been done initially for sure, i dont know why a win/loss isnt used for the leaderboards

leaderboards does not always equal MMR though, they could be using win/loss metrics for MMR and medals for leaderboards, it absolutely doesnt make sense but that seems to be what they are doing

darvaria · October 28

@SkaraMinoc

Weren't you always on top of leader board? I don't BG that much but when I see you there, you usually have 5k plus points. And number 1. I usually score close to 3k, sometimes 4k and am 2nd or 3rd. Once in a while if no one really pro (like you) is there I can have high score with 4500 ish points.

So, I don't seem them any different. I'm still getting around 3K with 2nd - 4th place in personal score. I don't even look at wins. I would sort of expect to see you on leader boards. I didn't think wins have anything to do with leader board does it?

(also, since I have you here, do you have a special build for BG's or use the one you use at GH ....I see you a lot at BG's, not as much at Cyro, could be time issue)

Treeshka · October 28

Well medal points need balancing. Killing someone while defending a flag gives you 5 points via Defensive Execution medal, and 10 for Offensive Execution medal if you kill someone while they defend their flag.
Healing someone for a great amount of hit points gives you 100 medal points. Either defensive execution should give 100 or that healing medal should be reduced to 10 or 5 as well. I said great amount of hit points because i do not know the exact value but i think it is around 10 000 or more.

CameraBeardThePirate · October 29

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hi all, thanks for flagging this for us. We are actively investigating this.

How about the team investigates the fact that Shielding and Pet Damage/Healing doesn't count for anything scoreboard-wise OR Medal Score-wise? It was reported so early on in the PTS cycle and yet the devs pushed a system through that actively discriminates against an entire class and playstyle.

Stafford197 · October 29

“Investigating”? Seriously? How can anything here require investigation at this point.

The community has provided you 7 years of feedback on Battlegrounds. Not even to mention the recent U44 PTS cycle. Players notified you of every single issue that would surface post-launch if you did not make any changes. These issues are only a surprise to people who are not familiar with BGs….

CameraBeardThePirate · October 29

Stafford197 wrote: »

“Investigating”? Seriously? How can anything here require investigation at this point.

The community has provided you 7 years of feedback on Battlegrounds. Not even to mention the recent U44 PTS cycle. Players notified you of every single issue that would surface post-launch if you did not make any changes. These issues are only a surprise to people who are not familiar with BGs….

That's the most baffling part. All of these issues are issues players pointed out extremely early on in PTS, and some of these issues, like the Pet Healing/Pet Damage/Shielding thing, have existed since the introduction of BGs, and have been discussed/reported at multiple points over the years.

What's the point of PTS if obvious and glaring issues like this get pointed out in week 1 but never fixed? Why even allow us to give feedback at all if none of the glaring issues people point out get addressed?

Ren_TheRedFox · October 29

@CameraBeardThePirate totally agree with that ... been doing BGs all day on my arcanist healer who mainly uses the chakram as heals and guess what ... last place when it comes to deathmatch even though on the other team the healer is number one ... biggest joke so far was seeing someone earn 5k AP while I'm down at 800 AP even though I kept my whole team alive both rounds ... probably played more than 60 bgs at this point today and I'm still not able to pass a pet sorc healer who just spams bird heals cause the score doesn't count with shields ... biggest joke ever ... I don't care about the score at all but I think it's unfair towards all the shielders and shield healers out there.

IncultaWolf · October 29

merevie · October 29

So basically the healers are the same as 'Emperors' from the 60 pve people daily doing Pay-To-Emp zerg in GH.

ZOS_Kevin · October 29

Good Morning, All. We are following up on the reports here of healers gaining the top spots on the Battlegrounds Leaderboards. We have identified this is not working as intended. We have also identified the bug causing this issue for healers scoring above and beyond intended. We are working toward a fix now for a future incremental.

Once this is resolved, we will reset the leaderboards.

Tommy_The_Gun · October 29

I guess it is a nice & fresh departure from all those moba games where only DPS, DPS, DPS ! ! & kill stealing & good K/D ratio matters & tanks, healers & supports are not credited at all lol. Something new for a change

CameraBeardThePirate · October 29

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Good Morning, All. We are following up on the reports here of healers gaining the top spots on the Battlegrounds Leaderboards. We have identified this is not working as intended. We have also identified the bug causing this issue for healers scoring above and beyond intended. We are working toward a fix now for a future incremental.

Once this is resolved, we will reset the leaderboards.

@ZOS_Kevin And what about the issue that was brought up Week 1 of PTS, where Necromancers and Shielders are not climbing leaderboards very much at all due to Pet Damage, Pet Healing, and Shielding done not counting for anything? The issues go hand in hand with the healer crit heal medals. If you fix one but not the other, the leaderboards are still meaningless because they'll still be skewed towards some builds.

buzzclops · October 29

Bashev wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

Rewards are useless, ranking is useless, the worst thing will be that the MMR is based on this medals so at some point it will be maybe each team with 2 healers or even 3 healers. And the worse will be in one team 3 healers in the other no healers at all.

they have clearly stated that the MMR itself is not based on medals, but win/loss

leaderboards being based on medal score though is problematic for the actual rewards though

I dnt believe that. Brian said in the live show that it is based on medals. Later they were some posts that it was on win and lose but this is just sand in our eyes. Until they publish more info how they calculate MMR i dont believe that it is based on win/lose

Wouldn’t be the first time (or the last) that they gaslight the PvP playerbase. It is clearly medal score and nothing else. They’ll keep saying this until something else takes the lead of our frustration and we move on and it gets buried for 8 years again. Eso for pvpers is basically a toxic push and pull relationship lmao. Vote with your wallets friends