Horrible crafting order system

HoffmannTheBest · August 23

In order to create a custom item with the right feature from the right set, you need to research a bunch of unnecessary features. Logic leaves the chat.
At the same time, the research time for these features grows exponentially. Now I have to wait 14 days to be able to create an item. This generally kills all desire to both craft and play the game.
Then remove the restriction on the use of scrolls that speed up research, so that players can buy them and speed them up instead of endlessly waiting.

MonkLoHan · August 23

Maybe just ask someone in zone chat or guild chat to craft what you need. Or, put in the perks that allow for more than one item to be researched at a time.

We all go through the research wait time. Its part of what makes the game so fun. When you get your Grandmaster Crafter achievement you'll celebrate.

valenwood_vegan · August 23

I mean sure research is a grind... but this is a mmo. Kinda par for the course... there are systems and achievements that take time to complete because they want people logging in regularly and playing for a long time... it's not the type of game that's intended to be completed in a week or two.

Lots of players in guilds and even in zone chat are happy to craft for newer players and that's a good way to get started while you work on your own crafting (and collecting gear for the stickerbook and building up transmutes, etc.).

Since there's not a significant amount of long-term vertical progress in the game (which is one of the things that differentiates it from other mmo's), zos seems to have chosen to rely on the gear grind, collecting and crafting better gear to make better builds over time, as one of the primary forms of "progress" instead. Just consider, if it wasn't this it would be something else - like the constant level-grind that comes with each expansion in other mmo's. It's the nature of the beast.

Not trying to sound discouraging or anything, that's just the type of game this is and I doubt they're suddenly gonna change how it all works after ten years.

HoffmannTheBest · August 23

valenwood_vegan wrote: »

I mean sure research is a grind... but this is a mmo. Kinda par for the course... there are systems and achievements that take time to complete because they want people logging in regularly and playing for a long time... it's not the type of game that's intended to be completed in a week or two.

Lots of players in guilds and even in zone chat are happy to craft for newer players and that's a good way to get started while you work on your own crafting (and collecting gear for the stickerbook and building up transmutes, etc.).

Since there's not a significant amount of long-term vertical progress in the game (which is one of the things that differentiates it from other mmo's), zos seems to have chosen to rely on the gear grind, collecting and crafting better gear to make better builds over time, as one of the primary forms of "progress" instead. Just consider, if it wasn't this it would be something else - like the constant level-grind that comes with each expansion in other mmo's. It's the nature of the beast.

Not trying to sound discouraging or anything, that's just the type of game this is and I doubt they're suddenly gonna change how it all works after ten years.

I understand that it shouldn't be that fast, and the main purpose of such a long research is to make players buy donation research scrolls.

But it's clearly not fun. I spent so long leveling up skills, was happy when I got a crafting order, and then I can't start doing it for almost a month, because I'm waiting for unnecessary features to be researched.

valenwood_vegan · August 23

Ohhhhh by crafting order do you mean a master writ? Yeah it's a bit of a bummer to get ones you can't complete yet. What I used to do was sell them, and use the gold to buy other ones that I could currently complete.

Sorry it's unfun, but you'll get there and hopefully have a nice feeling of accomplishment when you have all your research done. Keep an eye out for any research scrolls in the login rewards too, as those don't have a 1 per day cooldown.

freespirit · August 23

Back at launch and when Craglorn released there were no research scrolls!

It was well over a year before the first players had everything researched!!

Getting items for nirnhoned research was also a nightmare as the only way to get started was the ONE nirn item that dropped as a reward from the Craglorn questline.

So the main purpose of the long research was not originally to sell research scrolls because they didn't exist, it's an achievement to complete it all and these days it IS much easier!

FriedEggSandwich · August 23

HoffmannTheBest wrote: »

valenwood_vegan wrote: »

I mean sure research is a grind... but this is a mmo. Kinda par for the course... there are systems and achievements that take time to complete because they want people logging in regularly and playing for a long time... it's not the type of game that's intended to be completed in a week or two.

Lots of players in guilds and even in zone chat are happy to craft for newer players and that's a good way to get started while you work on your own crafting (and collecting gear for the stickerbook and building up transmutes, etc.).

Since there's not a significant amount of long-term vertical progress in the game (which is one of the things that differentiates it from other mmo's), zos seems to have chosen to rely on the gear grind, collecting and crafting better gear to make better builds over time, as one of the primary forms of "progress" instead. Just consider, if it wasn't this it would be something else - like the constant level-grind that comes with each expansion in other mmo's. It's the nature of the beast.

Not trying to sound discouraging or anything, that's just the type of game this is and I doubt they're suddenly gonna change how it all works after ten years.

I understand that it shouldn't be that fast, and the main purpose of such a long research is to make players buy donation research scrolls.

But it's clearly not fun. I spent so long leveling up skills, was happy when I got a crafting order, and then I can't start doing it for almost a month, because I'm waiting for unnecessary features to be researched.

My main is a grand master crafter with >95% of motifs known. I still get master writs I can't complete. If you do daily writs (especially on multiple characters), you'll get lots of master writs. I store them up in a 60-slot chest, and then use the addon 'Writworthy' to filter out the ones I can't do. I usually just delete the ones I can't do, but you can also sell them, as suggested above. You could also trawl the guild stores for master writs you could complete, if you just want to do one for some wrtit vouchers. Just be careful what you buy, some master writs can use expensive ingredients.

HoffmannTheBest · August 23

valenwood_vegan wrote: »

Ohhhhh by crafting order do you mean a master writ? Yeah it's a bit of a bummer to get ones you can't complete yet. What I used to do was sell them, and use the gold to buy other ones that I could currently complete.

Sorry it's unfun, but you'll get there and hopefully have a nice feeling of accomplishment when you have all your research done. Keep an eye out for any research scrolls in the login rewards too, as those don't have a 1 per day cooldown.

Yes, these are the orders I meant

I had a lot of scrolls, but I spent them to craft the "Sload's Semblance" set for my tank. So, I was left without scrolls, although I buy them in guilds, but they have a cooldown of one day, which is sad

Just be careful what you buy, some master writs can use expensive ingredients.

Yes, I already made the mistake of buying a lot of imperial crafting orders, hoping to complete them quickly, but as it turned out, if you activate one order with a certain item, then the same order automatically disappears from the inventory. So I lost 2000 coins)

SeaGtGruff · August 23

With the master writs, there are at least three possible stumbling blocks-- do you have enough traits researched on that type of gear to craft the requested set? have you learned the requested style motif for that type of gear? and do you have the mats required to craft the requested trait and quality?

That means you can't just accept every master writ you receive, since you might discover that you aren't able to craft it yet, in which case you'll either need to abandon the quest (which you might not want to do if it rewards a nice amount of vouchers) or just keep it active until you can finally craft it (which might take anywhere from a few minutes to several months depending on what you need to buy or learn for it, and which will prevent you from being able to accept and complete any other master writs from that particular crafting type).

That means your character inventory, bank account, and storage chests can get filled up with master writs that you're holding onto because you can't do them yet for some reason-- and the more master writs you accumulate, the more tedious it is to go through them every so often to see if you're finally able to craft them.

valenwood_vegan · August 23

Btw, this will be of no help on console of course, but if you're on PC there are various addons to help with master writs. Writworthy is popular one, with a number of features including telling you whether your character has the necessary mats, crafting skills and knowledge to complete a master writ.

HoffmannTheBest · August 24

valenwood_vegan wrote: »

Btw, this will be of no help on console of course, but if you're on PC there are various addons to help with master writs. Writworthy is popular one, with a number of features including telling you whether your character has the necessary mats, crafting skills and knowledge to complete a master writ.

There is not a single order available to me. What good are they then - I don't understand.

In general, you can completely abandon crafting as a boring and dull activity in the game, or until the developers understand that players are not interested in waiting a month to craft an item for 7 receipts.

DoofusMax · August 25

HoffmannTheBest wrote: »

In order to create a custom item with the right feature from the right set, you need to research a bunch of unnecessary features. Logic leaves the chat.
At the same time, the research time for these features grows exponentially. Now I have to wait 14 days to be able to create an item. This generally kills all desire to both craft and play the game.
Then remove the restriction on the use of scrolls that speed up research, so that players can buy them and speed them up instead of endlessly waiting.

It's a lengthy grind, and intentionally so. I started a new character back in April and he's about halfway through the 6th trait for Blacksmithing/Clothing, will wrap up the 8th trait for Woodworking in about 10 days, and still has a long wait for the 9th trait in Jewelry (plus needing to do it again for the other piece). That's pretty much where four months of trait research gets you, but I haven't slotted the fourth skill point into all the research passives yet (doesn't seem worthwhile to cap research time at 30 days if it's not taking more than 30 days). Oh, and I've been through this routine 8 other times (nine toons in total). It didn't kill any of my characters and it didn't kill much of my enjoyment of crafting aside from "here we go again - ugh!"

For the set stations, that's how it's been since like forever. The work-around is to ask someone who can use those stations to craft it for you. They might ask for mats (will definitely ask for mats if you want Nirnhoned or some Jewelry traits), but a lot of players will do stuff other than those for nothing (tips are appreciated). You're on your own for golding your gear, but they might do blue freebies.

As for the research scrolls, the ones that you get as login rewards and the ones you buy from the Crown Store don't have cooldowns. The ones you buy for writ vouchers or get as Zeal of Zenithar rewards (which are the ones being sold through guild traders) have a 1-day cooldown, so you can use them to cut your research time in half, but not instantly complete (unless it had a day or less to go). I think my next-most recent toon burned a small stack of Instant All Research scrolls that I'd been stockpiling right after they started on that ninth trait. Kind of a waste since Woodworking and Jewelry had long since completed, but the scrolls were freebies so I used what I had and didn't complain (I did do a happy dance when the last trait on the last piece popped about a year after creating the toon, though).

I_killed_Vivec · August 31

freespirit wrote: »

Back at launch and when Craglorn released there were no research scrolls!

It was well over a year before the first players had everything researched!!

Getting items for nirnhoned research was also a nightmare as the only way to get started was the ONE nirn item that dropped as a reward from the Craglorn questline.

So the main purpose of the long research was not originally to sell research scrolls because they didn't exist, it's an achievement to complete it all and these days it IS much easier!

Ah, the good old days! Try and tell the kids today about not having research scrolls, about the "race" to complete (I was about a month behind the leaders), about mats being linked to VR zones so if you hadn't completed Cadwell's Gold you had to go into Craglorn for void materials... they just wouldn't believe anyone put up with it!

Took longer to level you riding skills too...

Thumbless_Bot · October 4

Personally I think both leveling crafting and researching is WAY too fast for a massive mmorpg. Jewelry is the closest thing to reasonable as you can only do one at a time. Researching should take at least a year and being able to craft 160 should not be the cap. That's my probably unpopular opinion.