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Bots, Gold farmers, and a cash store.
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Adramelach✭✭✭Huggernaut wrote: »Cash shops are the flippin devil.
This is why we are playing a P2P game, to avoid crappy scamming cashshops.
You want to play a game with a cashshop, the go play F2P and leave us to our own device thanks.
P.s. Vanity items, such as costumes are incredibly important to a lot of players. While they don't have any impact on combat, that is only a small portion of the game for a lot of people.
MMOs are a social atmosphere and forcing people to buy outfits in a cashshop, rather than allowing them to earn said outfits in the game normally is still Pay2Win.
Sure, it's not taken to the extreme of allowing that character to level faster, or do more damage, but in 20+ years of being in online games, I have met more than my fair share of fashionistas that derive no greater pleasure than making their characters look the very best they possibly can in the game.
This is why cosmetic items sell so well in cashshops. Because people really care how their characters look.
Again, the same kind of reaction. Ok, so let's say that outfits and such cost gold, and gold can either be earned through all the channels it's earned through now, or purchased. Thus, every single outfit - literally anything you can acquire with gold - you can get either through earning the gold in-game, or purchasing the gold. game mechanics still limit levels, so you don't have a level 1 "rich" kid running around with a level 50 sword, etc. but basically, it means that a cash player can, at each level, generally equip themselves faster in the same stuff that another player might have to grind for for a while. Why is that the "flippin devil"? I'm still just not seeing the grave horror there at all.
So they pay to get stuff faster that I might take longer to earn. My own gameplay is unaffected by that, I still have all the same content available to me, the experience is good, etc... again, is it simply that I'm jealous of the other guy getting it faster than me, so I just quit out of spite, even if there's nothing I can't eventually get, and my own gameplay is unaffected?0 -
dennissomb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
[/quote]Again, the same kind of reaction. Ok, so let's say that outfits and such cost gold, and gold can either be earned through all the channels it's earned through now, or purchased. Thus, every single outfit - literally anything you can acquire with gold - you can get either through earning the gold in-game, or purchasing the gold. game mechanics still limit levels, so you don't have a level 1 "rich" kid running around with a level 50 sword, etc. but basically, it means that a cash player can, at each level, generally equip themselves faster in the same stuff that another player might have to grind for for a while. Why is that the "flippin devil"? I'm still just not seeing the grave horror there at all.
So they pay to get stuff faster that I might take longer to earn. My own gameplay is unaffected by that, I still have all the same content available to me, the experience is good, etc... again, is it simply that I'm jealous of the other guy getting it faster than me, so I just quit out of spite, even if there's nothing I can't eventually get, and my own gameplay is unaffected?
I'll throw in some examples of why a gold shop (and gold sellers) are a negative for the game. it goes beyond the simple "he got item X first because he bought gold". During the course of playing the game players use their gold to buy anything from horses to bank space to crafting mats to drops. Do I care if you got a horse before me, no not really. Do I care that buying some crafting mats have gone up insanely in price because people buy gold and drive the price up? yes I do.
The market is always hurt by being able to purchase gold. Then there is the PvP aspect of the game. Player A buys gold, gears himself way beyond the normal game play, hits VR10 weeks earlier then everyone else, is completely geared in Gold level items beyond everyone else, dominates PvP for weeks ruining the enjoyment of the game for everyone else.
Forcing ESO to create PvP only gear to combat this is a drain on development, a drain on players who now have to add another level of grind to get competitive, all because players buy gold. So yea, buying gold does effect the community and I hope they never add it
Edited by dennissomb16_ESO on May 12, 2014 4:04PM0 -
roadhog37_ESOSoul ShrivenIsn't that what subscription is for ? I understand this working for a free to play games, but I'm being charged money - I expect some kind of customer service in return - including working game processes.
No, that is not what the sub is for. The sub pays for continued improvement of the game and development of future content.
The in game store is for those who want something extra on top of that, be it gold or a costume. By offering a legal way for gold buyers to buy their gold that is cheaper than buying from gold farmers you undercut and drive the gold farmers away as it is no longer profitable.
That is so short sighted or blatantly obtuse its laughable. ZOS is responsible for the in game community as a whole. That includes incursions from hackers violating the eula. You want PTW go play something else thats already been bastardized by whiners and FTP and PTW. I f you need to buy your gold then MMORPG's are not for you.0 -
concobar✭✭✭roadhog37_ESO wrote: »Isn't that what subscription is for ? I understand this working for a free to play games, but I'm being charged money - I expect some kind of customer service in return - including working game processes.
No, that is not what the sub is for. The sub pays for continued improvement of the game and development of future content.
The in game store is for those who want something extra on top of that, be it gold or a costume. By offering a legal way for gold buyers to buy their gold that is cheaper than buying from gold farmers you undercut and drive the gold farmers away as it is no longer profitable.
That is so short sighted or blatantly obtuse its laughable. ZOS is responsible for the in game community as a whole. That includes incursions from hackers violating the eula. You want PTW go play something else thats already been bastardized by whiners and FTP and PTW. I f you need to buy your gold then MMORPG's are not for you.
Wow, tell me how you really feel? I would point out that the people who want to buy gold or what have you already are and in so doing they add incentive for the gold farmers to infest this game we both enjoy. I was suggesting a cut out the middle man sort of approach. Some agree and some do not.
I am good with that.I will still look across the lands from my perch at Arrius, Nerf or no I will still be the Night. I may not be the hero Ebonheart Pact wanted but I will be the hero Ebonheart pact deserves.0 -
roadhog37_ESOSoul Shrivenroadhog37_ESO wrote: »Isn't that what subscription is for ? I understand this working for a free to play games, but I'm being charged money - I expect some kind of customer service in return - including working game processes.
No, that is not what the sub is for. The sub pays for continued improvement of the game and development of future content.
The in game store is for those who want something extra on top of that, be it gold or a costume. By offering a legal way for gold buyers to buy their gold that is cheaper than buying from gold farmers you undercut and drive the gold farmers away as it is no longer profitable.
That is so short sighted or blatantly obtuse its laughable. ZOS is responsible for the in game community as a whole. That includes incursions from hackers violating the eula. You want PTW go play something else thats already been bastardized by whiners and FTP and PTW. I f you need to buy your gold then MMORPG's are not for you.
Wow, tell me how you really feel? I would point out that the people who want to buy gold or what have you already are and in so doing they add incentive for the gold farmers to infest this game we both enjoy. I was suggesting a cut out the middle man sort of approach. Some agree and some do not.
I am good with that.
Im suggesting that my subscription goes where it supposed to. I have been around this genre for quite a while and have seen great games go by the wayside when they reach the PTW and F2P plateau.I am also suggesting If you find a type game is difficult for you play until devs restructure it then maybe that genre isnt for you. Im suggesting that PTW and F2P is affirmative action of the gamer world. There are a plethora of pretty, open world, easier games that cater to your playstyle ( I WANT IT NOW). You also intimitated in the beginning of your first comment that ZOS wasnt responsible for getting rid of the bot farmers, which is strange because that would be encompassed by improvment of the game....0 -
concobar✭✭✭roadhog37_ESO wrote: »roadhog37_ESO wrote: »Isn't that what subscription is for ? I understand this working for a free to play games, but I'm being charged money - I expect some kind of customer service in return - including working game processes.
No, that is not what the sub is for. The sub pays for continued improvement of the game and development of future content.
The in game store is for those who want something extra on top of that, be it gold or a costume. By offering a legal way for gold buyers to buy their gold that is cheaper than buying from gold farmers you undercut and drive the gold farmers away as it is no longer profitable.
That is so short sighted or blatantly obtuse its laughable. ZOS is responsible for the in game community as a whole. That includes incursions from hackers violating the eula. You want PTW go play something else thats already been bastardized by whiners and FTP and PTW. I f you need to buy your gold then MMORPG's are not for you.
Wow, tell me how you really feel? I would point out that the people who want to buy gold or what have you already are and in so doing they add incentive for the gold farmers to infest this game we both enjoy. I was suggesting a cut out the middle man sort of approach. Some agree and some do not.
I am good with that.
Im suggesting that my subscription goes where it supposed to. I have been around this genre for quite a while and have seen great games go by the wayside when they reach the PTW and F2P plateau.I am also suggesting If you find a type game is difficult for you play until devs restructure it then maybe that genre isnt for you. Im suggesting that PTW and F2P is affirmative action of the gamer world. There are a plethora of pretty, open world, easier games that cater to your playstyle ( I WANT IT NOW). You also intimitated in the beginning of your first comment that ZOS wasnt responsible for getting rid of the bot farmers, which is strange because that would be encompassed by improvment of the game....
You are making a lot of assumptions all of them incorrect.
I will still look across the lands from my perch at Arrius, Nerf or no I will still be the Night. I may not be the hero Ebonheart Pact wanted but I will be the hero Ebonheart pact deserves.0 -
axiod✭Buying gold is p2w because then you have used irl money to buy gold to buy gear.
There's no way around it.. yes everything can be crafted.. yes you can earn gold ingame. All of this takes time, the point of an MMORPG. You take time out of the equation when you add gold to any cash shop, thus making it p2w.1 -
concobar✭✭✭Good point.I will still look across the lands from my perch at Arrius, Nerf or no I will still be the Night. I may not be the hero Ebonheart Pact wanted but I will be the hero Ebonheart pact deserves.0