People no longer know when to interrupt

WhiteCoatSyndrome · September 23

thorwyn wrote: »

WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

The fire boss in Hel Ra Citadel taught me the wonders of having Crushing Shock on my healer’s Destro bar. It’s got a permanent place there now.

Fair warning to the DPSs out there: if I have to take over your interrupting duties, you don’t get to complain when I don’t also have time to heal you!

If you are on healing duty, you should not interrupt and vice versa.
Just like rezzing, Interrupting is a DD's job, not a healer's job.

I can tell you don’t run with PuGs much.

Yes, a savvy DPS would ideally be on top of it instead. But there is no in-game notification ‘as a DPS your duties include: (…)’, it’s a play standard imposed by the portion of the player base that runs lots of high-level content. So there are lots of players who are new or just ignorant of those standards that don’t follow them, and I am not dragging my PuG runs out unnecessary just to impose a standard I don’t need when a couple strategic interrupts will do the job. If you want to, by all means, start taking people through training runs of whatever content you wish. But I’m keeping Crushing Shock on my bar and you can’t stop me.

Mik195 · September 23

mdjessup4906 wrote: »

CrashTest wrote: »

Angry red lines shooting out of bashable enemies and you rapidly dying is a pretty good emphasis already.

Being able to adjust the brightness and color of the sparks like you can with aoe damage would go a LONG way. I've lost count of the number of times I've heard "but I couldn't see them!" and it's not laziness, they're good players otherwise. And rip if your colorblind, like at least half a dozen people in my various trials are.

I've never seen red sparks and I'm CP2250+. I do see yellow sparks that mean block because something bad is about to happen, but have never seen red. I'm on Xbox so either they aren't there, they are too faint to see from the other side of the room, or my TV doesn't display them properly.

ESO really needs a combat tutorial not tied in to the beginning tutorial so that anyone can get a refresher any time they want or once they realize they've forgotten something.

Varana · September 23

All tutorials had an interrupt training part. But as we all know, the best place to hide something is to write it into a document called "README_NOW.txt" or "Manual".

A combat refresher tutorial would cetainly be useful. But to look up how to do something, you need to know that you're missing it in the first place.

Mik195 wrote: »

I've never seen red sparks and I'm CP2250+.

I ... what.

thorwyn · September 23

No worries, I don't want to stop you from playing however you want to play. Who am I to try to do that? I was merely pointing out that some actions are usually expected to be taken care of by other roles.

You are right, I'm not running with PUG's anymore, so I kind of expect the people in my group to know what they are supposed to do. However, even back in the days when I did run tons of PUG's, interrupting was never an issue. Apparently it is a problem these days.

JemadarofCaerSalis · September 23

alpha_synuclein wrote: »

No longer implies that there were times when it was different

On a serious note though, people don't encounter any "interrupt or die" mechs early enough. And once they do the tutorial is long forgotten. It's very obvious in group content. Which is why adding some group content specific tutorial would be helpful. Not at the very start of the game, but before entering a dungeon, trial or group arena for the first time.

Honestly, I think this is the issue.

I mostly play solo, and started doing public dungeons, and one of them, I think it was the crimson coin one? where they had a boss that was invunerable until interupted. I had to look online to figure out how to do it, because with all the flashing that was going on on screen, and all the mobs still coming at me, I couldn't see any 'do X to interupt' and all the other times that comes up, it has been trivial to just kill the enemy before they do anything or take the hit and heal quickly after.

I sort of like the idea someone else had, of adding some enemies to the overland that require interruption, to kill. They would still be relatively easy and their mechanics wouldn't be an insta kill to most people, but they would get newer players into the mindset of 'I can't hurt this boss, and there are these things coming out of it, I need to interupt!'

It doesn't have to be group content, just mobs scattered in various places that require this.

LaintalAy · September 23

WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

The fire boss in Hel Ra Citadel taught me the wonders of having Crushing Shock on my healer’s Destro bar. It’s got a permanent place there now.

Fair warning to the DPSs out there: if I have to take over your interrupting duties, you don’t get to complain when I don’t also have time to heal you!

Warning noted.
Crushing shock is pretty much all I use. I hope that's what everyone wants. I missed the training day where we all learned about the subtle signals that bosses give off and what they really mean.
The rest of my abilities are mostly self-heals, as the healer is often busy doing non-healing stuff.

Seriously, this is the primary argument for not rushing dungeons; you never have time to learn stuff properly.
(yeah,yeah; use the group finder, hang out with buddies etc etc.)

LuC1ll3atTh3Wh33L · September 23

interrupt, taunt and block are perishable skills. imo they only seem to matter in dlc dungeons. sure they're fun to do but it's like adding sprinkles to my ice cream. i don't see many players utilizing them a lot.

katanagirl1 · September 24

Yeah, as the stamina player standing next to the boss, I have to be the one to do it most of the time. If I am the only one it drains my resource pool considerably because I have to do a bash.

I think most players don’t realize what’s going or and don’t know what to do. Interrupting is a great thing to do, doesn’t it actually damage the boss as well? I think I see the health bar go down quite a bit. Plus you avoid all that damage of course

MidniteOwl1913 · September 24

moderatelyfatman wrote: »

To be fair, you can outdps most mechs these days.

Sadly this is true. I do think it has gotten to the point where newer players don't even think about it...

Galiferno · September 24

Please don't be the person who interrupts Zmaja if she channels in the beginning.

spartaxoxo · September 24

Galiferno wrote: »

Please don't be the person who interrupts Zmaja if she channels in the beginning.

Relatedly....

I feel like a lot of people do know how to interrupt. Because people were fast about it when fighting the Oblivion portals....even though they absolutely should have ignored it. 😕

alpha_synuclein · September 24

thorwyn wrote: »

There is no trial or dungeon that requires a healer as a designated interrupt. Not one. And I have played everything on any difficulty and with any group setup.

No, it is not a hard rule. Which is why I wrote "should" instead of "have to".... Nothing is set in stone here, but since healer is considered a support role, it is part of their function to support the team. Sometimes with other means that just healing. Healers in ESO are not just healbots.

thorwyn wrote: »

But even if we assume that interrupting as a healer is a thing, either the healer job allows it, or it doesn't. A PSA saying "don't complain when you die while I am interrupting because I am so incredibly busy and important" doesnt make sense.
In a scenario where someone dies because the healer was busy interrupting, the dead DD could have interrupted and the healer could have kept them alive.

I am not sure what you mean here, besides uncalled for disdain...
In most content it is possible for a healer to help with mechanics without compromising their primary function (healing and buffing). And at the diffuculty level where it might not be possible those kind of things are planned ahead and most mechanics have designated people to do them.

OsUfi · September 24

Aggrovious wrote: »

OsUfi wrote: »

I never knew in the first place. I've seen screenshot of the red wave lines, but when I playing I barely ever see them.

Might be because I'm playing on Linux through Proton? Could also be because I'm blind as a bat.

Either way, I usually figure it out by the animation of the enemy.

I would check your settings. My friend has a 4gb ram pc he plays on and he turned everything down to low. Now he can't see certain effects.

Even when I play in ultra with settings at max on every setting, I still don't see wavey lines.

Again, could be Linux, could be I'm blind as a bat.

Major_Toughness · September 24

The recent Undaunted event has made me question the ESO player base so much.

I get people who are 2800 CP not knowing the spit mechanic on Xal-Nur (Ruins of Mazzatun, Argonian Behemoth). They sit there attacking an immune boss while having the spit on them.

And don't get me started on the first boss in Graven Deep. Around 1 in 10 players (maybe less) I encounter in pugs actually know how to 1. stand with the poison AoE, and 2. press the synergy button. Again I have seen players with 2800CP, with prior clears of this dungeon (as confirmed by not getting Trophy drop), not know to drop the poison on the holes, or even how to use the synergy.

Either a whole lot of people have sold & bought accounts, or the general skill level of players in this game, some playing for 10 years, is under the floor.

twev · September 24

BetweenMidgets wrote: »

Is it not knowing? Or people being lazy and assuming someone else can do it. Or they can out DPS the kill mechanic.

I lean towards people being lazy, personally! Lol

I think a lot of players, especially newbs, just develop tunnel vision, and don't notice when its time to throw a few bashes.

Add to that the fact that it's so long between any bash tutorial and the times when it starts to be an important mechanic and a lot of players just don't think of it in time, there's no automatic muscle memory to kick in.

twev · September 24

WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

thorwyn wrote: »

WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

The fire boss in Hel Ra Citadel taught me the wonders of having Crushing Shock on my healer’s Destro bar. It’s got a permanent place there now.

Fair warning to the DPSs out there: if I have to take over your interrupting duties, you don’t get to complain when I don’t also have time to heal you!

If you are on healing duty, you should not interrupt and vice versa.
Just like rezzing, Interrupting is a DD's job, not a healer's job.

I can tell you don’t run with PuGs much.

Yes, a savvy DPS would ideally be on top of it instead. But there is no in-game notification ‘as a DPS your duties include: (…)’, it’s a play standard imposed by the portion of the player base that runs lots of high-level content. So there are lots of players who are new or just ignorant of those standards that don’t follow them, and I am not dragging my PuG runs out unnecessary just to impose a standard I don’t need when a couple strategic interrupts will do the job. If you want to, by all means, start taking people through training runs of whatever content you wish. But I’m keeping Crushing Shock on my bar and you can’t stop me.

Thats one of the end effects of so many vet players getting fed up with the servers and lag, they quit and take all that learned knowledge with them, and there are fewer players left to teach the newbs who come in as part of the churn.

Estin · September 24

mdjessup4906 wrote: »

CrashTest wrote: »

Angry red lines shooting out of bashable enemies and you rapidly dying is a pretty good emphasis already.

Being able to adjust the brightness and color of the sparks like you can with aoe damage would go a LONG way. I've lost count of the number of times I've heard "but I couldn't see them!" and it's not laziness, they're good players otherwise. And rip if your colorblind, like at least half a dozen people in my various trials are.

This definitely needs to be a thing. The same for all visual effects too like block notifiers and CC immunity. There's sometimes way too many visual effects going on across all content that the visual effects for all 3 become impossible to see since they blend in so well with the environment you are in. It may not change much for the majority of the playerbase since the majority of players don't even know you can change the color and brightness of ground effects, but the option being there will still help a lot of players.

SeaGtGruff · September 24

There are certain types of enemies and bosses who are good for learning and practicing how to interrupt, such as trolls or lurchers and any lurcher bosses-- the one just outside of Daggerfall is a good one to practice with.

One problem I have is that some enemies and bosses seem to be immune to being interrupted, and if you encounter a lot of those then it can sort of de-train you from using interrupt, especially since it costs stamina to execute an interrupt and it can be frustrating to use up most of your stamina trying to interrupt an enemy that's immune to interruption.

LanteanPegasus · September 24

Major_Toughness wrote: »

The recent Undaunted event has made me question the ESO player base so much.
[boss mechanics]
Either a whole lot of people have sold & bought accounts, or the general skill level of players in this game, some playing for 10 years, is under the floor.

I think there is another aspect to that specific problem (players not doing specific mechanics): ESO DLC dungeon mechanics are an elaborate memory game.
I've been playing ESO since 2016. Mainly for overland and questing, that's my fun part. Of course I let the game lure me to repetitive things like world bosses, world events, group dungeons, dungeons and so on (to get leads, motif pages etc.).
I got a lot of CP without ever doing a DLC dungeon, though, because I'd only do those with a premade group of irl friends, we didn't have ESO+ all the time/at the same time, and I saw no reason to buy the dungeon DLCs, because they aren't fun for me.
I did them all once, eventually - on normal, with my main character, with my friends, for completions sake. We made our way to a given boss, paused there, googled and read up the mechanics for it (if necessary), did it, went to the next, read that up and so on.
But - ESO has a lot of DLC dungeons. Each dungeon has about half a dozen bosses. Each boss has some random mechanic(s). And if you don't play those things more than once in a blue moon (or once in years, even) you just can't remember what freaking mechanic is for what freaking boss in which of the many freaking DLC dungeons.
And if you're in a pug, the group won't stop at each boss to read it up/explain. That's why I just don't do DLC dungeons with strangers. Others probably just use the dungeon finder and have at it. But if they don't do DLC dungeons regularly, it's just not reasonable to expect them to remember what to do with "this spit ball" and "that positioning to press the synergy", or if they should run into or from any given random glowing circle on the map (that isn't just the usual "red").
It doesn't say much about the skill level of players. Just about a. their abilities to memorize arbitrary sets of do-s and don't-s, and b. (if the dungeon isn't random) their willingness to study up 15 minutes for a run that will last three times (?) that long (arbitrary guess).

@ topic:
I got the impression that during the last years ESO has moved more and more toward the "instant gratification" approach regarding what a player has to do. Quests dumbed down (fat markers for any tiny action, endless repetition of dialogues), damage became an easy solution for everything. "Just out-DPS it" is something I read regularly as answer to many questions about certain difficulties with mechanics etc.. So regular gameplay doesn't encourage thinking about what to do better, or how to do it.
But ESO is still (thankfully) a rather complex game. Not "pick your class, here are your 10 skills, this is your lvl x gear, you are the DD, now go". Different skill trees, sets, consumables, crafting, a million possible activities - that's a lot to take in. Remembering a specific mechanic from the tutorial can probably get lost in that. Especially without regular incentive to remember it.
A combat mechanics refresher-tutorial at the first dungeon (and again the first DLC dungeon or trial) would probably help with that.
That said - I think there's still a good number of "meh, why bother, I'll just kill it" people out there, used to getting their DD-way. As someone whose character travelled all of Tamriel (and beyond) using sword and shield to stay alive I'll never neglect an interrupt if I see the cue (and can reach the target).

xosaara137ox · September 24

There is a few reasons for this..
1. Combat tutorial, new or old, is weak and missing tons of info
2. Active combat tips don’t work 100% of the time. They default to automatic, but even as “always on” they’re not consistent (at least on console, where there are no add ons for this either.)
3. The visuals that are consistent are small and difficult to see
4. Almost no reason to use interrupt in overland

SeaGtGruff · September 24

I haven't read all of the replies, so I don't know if this has been suggested already, but I think one possible problem is that a large percentage of the playerbase prefers to use ranged combat, and tactics like blocking, bashing, and interrupting are used more in melee combat. For instance, how are you going to bash Wuyuvus when he grabs some other player if you're standing well away from him and just shooting at him with your ranged staff attacks?

alpha_synuclein · September 24

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

I haven't read all of the replies, so I don't know if this has been suggested already, but I think one possible problem is that a large percentage of the playerbase prefers to use ranged combat, and tactics like blocking, bashing, and interrupting are used more in melee combat. For instance, how are you going to bash Wuyuvus when he grabs some other player if you're standing well away from him and just shooting at him with your ranged staff attacks?

With Crushing shock. Or other range interrupt.

Personofsecrets · September 24

The addition of enemies that shouldn't be interrupted lest they become enraged maybe makes this issue worse.

Varana · September 24

But these are usually only a few enemies in newer dungeons and trials. They're not exceedingly common.

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

One problem I have is that some enemies and bosses seem to be immune to being interrupted, and if you encounter a lot of those then it can sort of de-train you from using interrupt, especially since it costs stamina to execute an interrupt and it can be frustrating to use up most of your stamina trying to interrupt an enemy that's immune to interruption.

I'm not sure there are any like that; and if there are, they're really rare. Long-winded attacks, yellow-lines heavy attacks, all of that - those often can't be interrupted. But if there are red lines coming out of the enemy, it can be interrupted.

OsUfi wrote: »

Even when I play in ultra with settings at max on every setting, I still don't see wavey lines.

"Wavey" is probably the wrong word. They're red lines that seem to come out of the enemy around it:

heaven13 · September 24

Estin wrote: »

mdjessup4906 wrote: »

CrashTest wrote: »

Angry red lines shooting out of bashable enemies and you rapidly dying is a pretty good emphasis already.

Being able to adjust the brightness and color of the sparks like you can with aoe damage would go a LONG way. I've lost count of the number of times I've heard "but I couldn't see them!" and it's not laziness, they're good players otherwise. And rip if your colorblind, like at least half a dozen people in my various trials are.

This definitely needs to be a thing. The same for all visual effects too like block notifiers and CC immunity. There's sometimes way too many visual effects going on across all content that the visual effects for all 3 become impossible to see since they blend in so well with the environment you are in. It may not change much for the majority of the playerbase since the majority of players don't even know you can change the color and brightness of ground effects, but the option being there will still help a lot of players.

Yeah, I see the red lines sometimes, depending on what effects are also all around. Sometimes it becomes incredibly difficult to see them. Being CC-ed is also a visual issue for me. Used to be that you'd go down on one knee. Now you just stand there like an idiot until you realize you need to break free.

I also get incredibly frustrated that interrupt only seems to work half the time. Not sure how many times I bash and bash and bash the blobs in IA only to have them keep channeling and trying to swap to crushing shock is about as useful because half the time they're overlapped on another enemy so trying to target them is futile.

Warhawke_80 · September 24

The combat system is janky, half the time it doesn't work...you sit there and try to weave try to do your blocks and interrupts and it only works once in a blue moon...plus you get the added bonus of some dude insulting you because you missed your X press even though you did it.

So much fun

Elvenheart · September 24

Major_Toughness wrote: »

The recent Undaunted event has made me question the ESO player base so much.

I get people who are 2800 CP not knowing the spit mechanic on Xal-Nur (Ruins of Mazzatun, Argonian Behemoth). They sit there attacking an immune boss while having the spit on them.

And don't get me started on the first boss in Graven Deep. Around 1 in 10 players (maybe less) I encounter in pugs actually know how to 1. stand with the poison AoE, and 2. press the synergy button. Again I have seen players with 2800CP, with prior clears of this dungeon (as confirmed by not getting Trophy drop), not know to drop the poison on the holes, or even how to use the synergy.

Either a whole lot of people have sold & bought accounts, or the general skill level of players in this game, some playing for 10 years, is under the floor.

Just guessing, but I would think if a person learns the mechanics in a new dungeon when it first comes out, does it a few times on normal and then maybe on vet a few times, then tries doing it again years later during an event they might not remember every mechanic of every boss, especially if it is the first time through that dungeon again in years. 🤷🏼‍♂️

mdjessup4906 · September 24

think there is another aspect to that specific problem (players not doing specific mechanics): ESO DLC dungeon mechanics are an elaborate memory game.

As someone who likes dlc dungeons this is true. I literally have notes up on my 2nd monitor for mechs of whatever pledge we have that day. As much as I'd like it to be the case, can't expect everyone to do that.

Necrotech_Master · September 24

LunaFlora wrote: »

moderatelyfatman wrote: »

To be fair, you can outdps most mechs these days.

not if you die, because an enemy was not interrupted.

for example, Prior Thierric in Red Petal Bastion will kill someone if he is not interrupted.

same for the Hunger world boss in Vvardenfell which cannot be defeated solo due to that

the channel from that hunger does not last forever, but it will likely outheal a tank who can easily survive it lol

there is also precognition psijic ult to break out of it your self

for the OP overall a lot of the key for interrupts is when you should or should not interrupt

the iron atro boss in the cauldron is actually far easier if you dont interrupt it so it doesnt jump around the arena, or the boss in the atoll of imollation, or the other case mentioned in the thread z'maja, or the statues in the HM navii fight that take strategic interrupting

so in most cases yes its usually better to interrupt, but you dont always want to interrupt (either immediately, or at all) depending on the fight

Major_Toughness · September 25

Elvenheart wrote: »

Major_Toughness wrote: »

The recent Undaunted event has made me question the ESO player base so much.

I get people who are 2800 CP not knowing the spit mechanic on Xal-Nur (Ruins of Mazzatun, Argonian Behemoth). They sit there attacking an immune boss while having the spit on them.

And don't get me started on the first boss in Graven Deep. Around 1 in 10 players (maybe less) I encounter in pugs actually know how to 1. stand with the poison AoE, and 2. press the synergy button. Again I have seen players with 2800CP, with prior clears of this dungeon (as confirmed by not getting Trophy drop), not know to drop the poison on the holes, or even how to use the synergy.

Either a whole lot of people have sold & bought accounts, or the general skill level of players in this game, some playing for 10 years, is under the floor.

Just guessing, but I would think if a person learns the mechanics in a new dungeon when it first comes out, does it a few times on normal and then maybe on vet a few times, then tries doing it again years later during an event they might not remember every mechanic of every boss, especially if it is the first time through that dungeon again in years. 🤷🏼‍♂️

But when a boss is invulnerable and you have a debuff on you doing damage, the exact same one you get in the previous room with the mudcrabs and you can synergise it off in a pool of water? It teaches you the mechanic literally right before the fight. Maybe that could help refresh people's minds?

Or when are hit with something and three bright green circles appear on the floor? Guess I'll just stand still and do nothing.

Also, I wouldn't expect anyone to remember all mechanics off by heart. I couldn't, but when you actually get there and see it, it usually jogs your memory. Like song lyrics, most people can't rattle off an entire song acapella from memory. But put the song on and you sing along because you remember as it's happening.