Maintenance for the week of December 22:
• NA megaservers for maintenance – December 22, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 8:00AM EST (13:00 UTC)
• EU megaservers for maintenance – December 22, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 8:00AM EST (13:00 UTC)
• NA megaservers for maintenance – December 22, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 8:00AM EST (13:00 UTC)
• EU megaservers for maintenance – December 22, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 8:00AM EST (13:00 UTC)
Bots, Gold farmers, and a cash store.
concobar
✭✭✭
Is it possible that one way to end the bots and gold sellers would be to open a in game cash store and undercut the gold sellers prices in a similar manner to how GW2 did?
I will still look across the lands from my perch at Arrius, Nerf or no I will still be the Night. I may not be the hero Ebonheart Pact wanted but I will be the hero Ebonheart pact deserves.
5
-
Dita✭✭✭Isn't that what subscription is for ? I understand this working for a free to play games, but I'm being charged money - I expect some kind of customer service in return - including working game processes."Begun the Bot Wars has"2 -
TyroneThe3rdSoul Shriven"Pay to Win" is the cancer of gaming... be it legitimate or otherwise."I've been all over the world, my boy, and everywhere I go people
tell me about the 'true gods'; they all think they found the right one. The one true
god is what's between a woman's legs. And better yet a queen's legs." -- Salladhor Saan - Game of Thrones7 -
concobar✭✭✭Isn't that what subscription is for ? I understand this working for a free to play games, but I'm being charged money - I expect some kind of customer service in return - including working game processes.
No, that is not what the sub is for. The sub pays for continued improvement of the game and development of future content.
The in game store is for those who want something extra on top of that, be it gold or a costume. By offering a legal way for gold buyers to buy their gold that is cheaper than buying from gold farmers you undercut and drive the gold farmers away as it is no longer profitable.
I will still look across the lands from my perch at Arrius, Nerf or no I will still be the Night. I may not be the hero Ebonheart Pact wanted but I will be the hero Ebonheart pact deserves.0 -
concobar✭✭✭TyroneThe3rd wrote: »"Pay to Win" is the cancer of gaming... be it legitimate or otherwise.
I dont think pay to win means what you think it means?
I will still look across the lands from my perch at Arrius, Nerf or no I will still be the Night. I may not be the hero Ebonheart Pact wanted but I will be the hero Ebonheart pact deserves.1 -
JessieColt✭✭✭✭Cash stores are for vanity items, or to nickel and dime the users into paying out 1000x more for content than the cost of a monthly subscription.
In either case, they are very bad ideas.Edited by JessieColt on May 12, 2014 1:00PM4 -
concobar✭✭✭JessieColtub17_ESO wrote: »Cash stores are for vanity items, or to nickel and dime the users into paying out 1000x more for content than the cost of a monthly subscription.
In either case, they are very bad ideas.
Vanity items are never a bad idea unless they ruin the lore. Charging for content is a horrible idea and should be avoided. Are vanity items content? I don't think so as they have no actual effect on play but some might disagree.I will still look across the lands from my perch at Arrius, Nerf or no I will still be the Night. I may not be the hero Ebonheart Pact wanted but I will be the hero Ebonheart pact deserves.0 -
concobar✭✭✭I don't want buy gold, that is Pay2Win.
Then don't? I am not suggesting anyone should buy gold only that allowing players to buy gold legitimately from a in game store might end the horde of bots and gold sellers infesting the game currently.I will still look across the lands from my perch at Arrius, Nerf or no I will still be the Night. I may not be the hero Ebonheart Pact wanted but I will be the hero Ebonheart pact deserves.0 -
HesperantSoul ShrivenA cash store would have the exact opposite effect of reducing bot and gold farmer incentive. Then pieces of the game would have to be designed to support the shop. This would just make more things available for exploit only this time with the added bonus of coming directly from cash rather than the converting experience of gold.1 -
concobar✭✭✭
Its coming. I wonder why a sub in ESO is such a issue with players who came here from WoW, a game that has had a sub fee for almost a decade.
I will still look across the lands from my perch at Arrius, Nerf or no I will still be the Night. I may not be the hero Ebonheart Pact wanted but I will be the hero Ebonheart pact deserves.0 -
concobar✭✭✭A cash store would have the exact opposite effect of reducing bot and gold farmer incentive. Then pieces of the game would have to be designed to support the shop. This would just make more things available for exploit only this time with the added bonus of coming directly from cash rather than the converting experience of gold.
How very vague of you....
I will still look across the lands from my perch at Arrius, Nerf or no I will still be the Night. I may not be the hero Ebonheart Pact wanted but I will be the hero Ebonheart pact deserves.0 -
Dita✭✭✭
Its coming. I wonder why a sub in ESO is such a issue with players who came here from WoW, a game that has had a sub fee for almost a decade.
Ok, you lost my interest at "WoW" . . ."Begun the Bot Wars has"0 -
starstruck✭✭With a sub, all content created (fluff or not) should be available to the players. A cash shop is just like charging the players twice.
Selling gold thru cash shop will not get rid of bots of gold farmers. All is does is set a benchmark of how much gold cost. Gold seller will just charge less for their gold.
Buying gold is pay 2 win, you can argue that players can don't buy gold, but they are still negatively impact by those who are willing to pay real money got gold. Guess who will be able to afford end game gold gear, and who will be more acceptable into groups?1 -
axiod✭Buying gold period is a bad idea.. whether in game or via gold sellers.
Welcome to a MMORPG, they all have bots and gold farmers this isn't anything new. WoW has been battling them for a decade and still have them. Yes it can be annoying but if a simple right click/ignore is going to ruin your day.. I feel sorry for you sir.Edited by axiod on May 12, 2014 1:13PM1 -
k9mouse✭✭✭✭✭
✭Sub fees pay for content -- ALL CONTENT! ie no cash shop! Gold is content therefore it is under the sub fee. End of Story.2 -
concobar✭✭✭starstruck wrote: »With a sub, all content created (fluff or not) should be available to the players. A cash shop is just like charging the players twice.
Selling gold thru cash shop will not get rid of bots of gold farmers. All is does is set a benchmark of how much gold cost. Gold seller will just charge less for their gold.
Buying gold is pay 2 win, you can argue that players can don't buy gold, but they are still negatively impact by those who are willing to pay real money got gold. Guess who will be able to afford end game gold gear, and who will be more acceptable into groups?
So what you are saying is that nothing will actually change from how it is now? If that be the case why not let Zeni profit from the gold buyers and not goldah?
I will still look across the lands from my perch at Arrius, Nerf or no I will still be the Night. I may not be the hero Ebonheart Pact wanted but I will be the hero Ebonheart pact deserves.0 -
concobar✭✭✭
Its coming. I wonder why a sub in ESO is such a issue with players who came here from WoW, a game that has had a sub fee for almost a decade.
Ok, you lost my interest at "WoW" . . .
Its a fair question though, many of the people on these forums complaining about the sub fee have played and paid the wow sub fee for months or even years. Why is a sub fee in ESO, a better game more unpalatable than a sub fee in wow? People dont want a in game store but at the same time want the game to be FtP. It seems like we are dealing with a generation of entitled twits that want everything for free.
I will still look across the lands from my perch at Arrius, Nerf or no I will still be the Night. I may not be the hero Ebonheart Pact wanted but I will be the hero Ebonheart pact deserves.0 -
starstruck✭✭So what you are saying is that nothing will actually change from how it is now? If that be the case why not let Zeni profit from the gold buyers and not goldah?
What I am saying is that officially selling gold is not the magic bullet to get rid of your gold farmers/sellers. Do you honestly think that when Zenimax sells gold, all gold sellers will go out of business? The gold sellers will just undercut the official prices and spam their cheaper than Zenimax price.
2 -
JessieColt✭✭✭✭JessieColtub17_ESO wrote: »Cash stores are for vanity items, or to nickel and dime the users into paying out 1000x more for content than the cost of a monthly subscription.
In either case, they are very bad ideas.
Vanity items are never a bad idea unless they ruin the lore. Charging for content is a horrible idea and should be avoided. Are vanity items content? I don't think so as they have no actual effect on play but some might disagree.
In the context of having a cash store so that the company can nickel and dime users out of more money, yes, even vanity items are a bad idea.
There IS a cash store item already for TESO, it is the Palomino horse you can buy for 15$.
Not a vanity item, for sure, and it is a way for Zenimax to "cash in" from players wanting horses as soon as possible.
The horse can be bought for 1g on any of your characters above level 10.
The biggest "cost" in the game, based on /zone chat is the motiff's. These are cosmetic items only that affect the look of your armor, and IMHO, people are outright stupid if they pay those asking prices for the items.
It is a COSMETIC item only. It has ZERO affect on game play, but it is the user base who are driving the costs of those items.
If people would just stop paying those prices, then there wouldn't be calls to add those items to a cash store, or adjust the drop rate.
Unfortunately, far too many people have the attitude that they "needz it nao" and will do anything they can to get it. Including buying gold, exploiting the game, or whatever else they discover/find/think they need to do to get that item.
1 -
concobar✭✭✭starstruck wrote: »So what you are saying is that nothing will actually change from how it is now? If that be the case why not let Zeni profit from the gold buyers and not goldah?
What I am saying is that officially selling gold is not the magic bullet to get rid of your gold farmers/sellers. Do you honestly think that when Zenimax sells gold, all gold sellers will go out of business? The gold sellers will just undercut the official prices and spam their cheaper than Zenimax price.
Gold sellers can never undercut Zeni as Zeni has not to farm the gold it sales.
I will still look across the lands from my perch at Arrius, Nerf or no I will still be the Night. I may not be the hero Ebonheart Pact wanted but I will be the hero Ebonheart pact deserves.0 -
TyroneThe3rdSoul ShrivenI couldn't care less if someone wants to waste their money buying vanity items, my issue is with being able to purchase gold. Purchasing gold is "Paying to Win".
The only way gold spammers will go away is if people stop buying from them. The problem can't be cured any other way."I've been all over the world, my boy, and everywhere I go people
tell me about the 'true gods'; they all think they found the right one. The one true
god is what's between a woman's legs. And better yet a queen's legs." -- Salladhor Saan - Game of Thrones2 -
snowmanflvb14_ESO✭✭✭✭
except that it then becomes and P2W game. So no thank you.Magic is impressive but now Minsc leads SWORDS FOR EVERYONE!!2 -
concobar✭✭✭TyroneThe3rd wrote: »The only way gold spammers will go away is if people stop buying from them. The problem can't be cured any other way.
You can never stop people from buying gold but you can add incentive to whom they buy the gold from with prices and piece of mind.
I will still look across the lands from my perch at Arrius, Nerf or no I will still be the Night. I may not be the hero Ebonheart Pact wanted but I will be the hero Ebonheart pact deserves.0 -
Adramelach✭✭✭I think there should be an official way to buy gold, and that it does not correspond to "pay to win" IF everything available via cash is also available via work (and not crazy amounts of it) over time. So, you have a time/money tradeoff and that's acceptable to me.
I play Star Trek Online a lot, and I really like the mechanic they have worked out. It's F2P, and they have a "gold store" (though it's "dilithium" in there). I was able to max my level with no purchased gear, and have never felt "required" to purchase anything in there to achieve any goal. And (and I really like this) the absolute *best* equipment cannot be purchased, you have to work for it, period. However, the *next best* stuff can be purchased and that purchase can be accelerated by buying currency, though if you're patient, you can certainly simply earn it.
It's clear to me that those guys have been at it a while, and have spent a long time tuning their system, it feels ok to me. I have on occasion purchased currency to accelerate myself into some gear I liked, but only "liked" - not "absolutely needed in order to win/succeed". I haven't felt like that ever in that game. It's a good one to study, in my opinion.2 -
Mix✭✭✭✭✭
✭The Gold sellers will simply put their price for gold lower than Zenimax. Unless Zenimax gives away free gold there will be gold sellers able to undercut them.
I also think a cash store is a very bad idea. I don't think anyone should buy gold. I am on the fence with the vanity item "store". On one hand they have no real effect on gameplay, on the other hand it doesn't matter how well I play I cannot obtain those items in-game. I know right now it is just one horse for those who wanted one "now" and did not have the imperial edition horse. What bothered me over time with WoW's store was that the purchased mounts/pets started to get much more appealing models than anything available in game. It wasn't just colour variations anymore.
Gold/currency store = very bad idea
vanity item store = ok...0 -
dennissomb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Is it possible that one way to end the bots and gold sellers would be to open a in game cash store and undercut the gold sellers prices in a similar manner to how GW2 did?
It actually did nothing to end bots and gold sellers in GW2. The gold sellers drastically undercut the cash stores cost of gold in GW2. 20+ months later and GW2 still have bots galore (go to cursed shores and all you will see are necro bots), resource teleport hackers, etc.0 -
concobar✭✭✭Interesting points have been made.
I fail to see how a gold farmer that must work/pay to harvest gold can undercut the company that can create gold from this air.
I do not remember dealing with bots in GW2 or STO, maybe I was not as observant back then?Edited by concobar on May 12, 2014 1:42PMI will still look across the lands from my perch at Arrius, Nerf or no I will still be the Night. I may not be the hero Ebonheart Pact wanted but I will be the hero Ebonheart pact deserves.0 -
Reenlister✭✭✭cash shop always = pay to win.
if they sell gold, then your suddenly at the mercy of other players who are more than happy to have you buy gold to give to them for excessively overpriced items.
Then the economy gets even worse.
Also we must face the fact that sure, it could start vanity only, but as they would go along, the truth is they would see money is being made from the new must have vanity items, so some guy says "well, lets add this.." then next thing you know your going there to buy your bank stones for expanding your storage. Then its weapons, armor etc..
No, if I wanted a cash shop in game, I would just go sign up for any of the dozen F2P which wind up costing you double or triple what you pay to stay competitive in the games.2