Storm27Stars wrote: »

The leaks had pretty much confirmed it but was sad to see it become a reality in the live stream tonight.

The PvP update was new BG's and nothing for Cyrodiil (which please someone correct me if I'm wrong, must be hands down the most popular form of PvP in the game?).

I was watching the comments and people must have posted 'Cyrodiil' at least once every couple of seconds. It was a continuous stream, which makes me wonder who are these people that ZoS got feedback about in regards the direction of this PvP update? Was there a poll on the forum that I missed?

The most annoying thing about this is, while doing something for the PvP community is good, how long do us players that aren't fans of BG's and spend most of our time in Cyrodiil going to have to wait for the next major PvP update? It could be years (as I doubt we'll get a major update to PvP next year).

At least my wife is happy, she's just inherited millions of gold on Xbox.

Anyone want 10million gold on PC NA 🤣🤣?

#showsomeloveforcyrodiil

umm... isn't it obvious why the most popular form of PvP in the game will NOT be touched? Battlegrounds need a revamp because not enough players get in on it, you're constantly with/against the same players and they need to do something to breathe new life into it. when cyrodiil starts dying then it can get a major revamp.

Joy_Division wrote: »

1. higher pop caps
2. campaign end rewards to mean something
3. campaign scoring system not decided on what alliance has most Aussie and Asian players
4. more objectives (moving supply wagons, fixed resource nodes, etc) to use the 90% of the map that never sees a fight
5. some sort of scoreboard keeping track of which alliance actually wins a campaign and some reward/consequence for winning them
6. npcs not to use my old beloved skills that ZOS nerfed to the ground against me
7. an acknowledgement from zos that stacking a dozen of the same HoT/shield is a bad mechanic and a test campaign to see what happens when these are removed
8. the rush of agony set to die in a fire
9. an update to the alliance war FAQ seeing how the last update was in April 2014
10. a game master to occasional witness and adjudicate what goes on there
11. the names of hired staff that we actually know are devoted to cyrodiil content and provide feedback via the official forums
12. an attempt to acknowledge that certain skills/abilities are not fun to face as players and thus balanced differently for PvE and PvP
13. keeps/castles that actually favor the defenders.
14. objectives/mechanics that encourage inexperienced/newer players from standing inside a home keep with their map open looking for action
15. guild ownership of a keep to actually mean something
16. an end to destructible bridges/gates. Did not spread us out, did not work as intended. Make them capturable objectives.
17. some seasonal events to add a little spice and variety to playing in Cyrodiil.
18. new alliance war skills/abilities/consumables to deal with the problems and annoying play patterns that have come about in cyrodiil that were not anticipated by the original devs
19. a mechanic that would require/incentivize people to go to different portions of the map to collect/acquire parts/components to do things like strengthen siege defenses, alliance score multiplier, or personal collectibles
20. etc.etc.etc

Basically anything to communicate to me as a paying customer that Cyrodiil is not on autopilot and the company still cares that the game system is a huge part why paying customers still pay ZOS.

So uh...

1. higher pop caps You mean like it used to be when performance was even worse? I thought you wanted performance improvements?
2. campaign end rewards to mean something like what? Mean what to who? Why are they meaningless now? What activity in the game gives more meaningful rewards, and how can cyrodiil's campaigns give them?
3. campaign scoring system not decided on what alliance has most Aussie and Asian players so turn the servers off overnight? Or is there a serious suggestion in here?
4. more objectives (moving supply wagons, fixed resource nodes, etc) to use the 90% of the map that never sees a fight actually a thoughtworthy suggestion if performance supports it.
5. some sort of scoreboard keeping track of which alliance actually wins a campaign and some reward/consequence for winning them press L and click on the leftmost tab next time your're in a campaign
6. npcs not to use my old beloved skills that ZOS nerfed to the ground against me ??? they can slightly change the animation skill if that makes you happier
7. an acknowledgement from zos that stacking a dozen of the same HoT/shield is a bad mechanic and a test campaign to see what happens when these are removed why do you hate teamwork?
8. the rush of agony set to die in a fire balance changes are ongoing - to whatever quality...
9. an update to the alliance war FAQ seeing how the last update was in April 2014 and what Q's are F A'd?
10. a game master to occasional witness and adjudicate what goes on there adjudicate what? Reported cheaters? Isn't this already adjudicated? How do you know this isn't happening?
11. the names of hired staff that we actually know are devoted to cyrodiil content and provide feedback via the official forums Cyrodiil content like...? feedback like "well, your idea didn't make sense or was already in progress, so we didn't do it or it's still in progress."? Maybe once you have some specific content that can be worked on, they can hire people to work on it. Carts/caravans are a cool idea.
12. an attempt to acknowledge that certain skills/abilities are not fun to face as players and thus balanced differently for PvE and PvP Battle spirit already balances skills differently... unless you think Breath of Life is exactly the same in Spindle1 as it is in Cyrodiil...
13. keeps/castles that actually favor the defenders. you're right, the defenders would invariably be better off fighting in an open field against whatever force is attacking the keep
14. objectives/mechanics that encourage inexperienced/newer players from standing inside a home keep with their map open looking for action I think being invited to group and being given direction by crown should be enough, but PVP groups seem to hate including new players - what kind of mechanic could do this better than what's already available? What objectives?
15. guild ownership of a keep to actually mean something mean what? passive income is a good idea, but it can't mean so much that guilds pay each other for keeps and the like...
16. an end to destructible bridges/gates. Did not spread us out, did not work as intended. Make them capturable objectives. what would making them capturable do? Give extra AP capturing them or?
17. some seasonal events to add a little spice and variety to playing in Cyrodiil. there is definitely already at least one of these...
18. new alliance war skills/abilities/consumables to deal with the problems and annoying play patterns that have come about in cyrodiil that were not anticipated by the original devs is this the third time you mentioned 'balance' or fourth?
19. a mechanic that would require/incentivize people to go to different portions of the map to collect/acquire parts/components to do things like strengthen siege defenses, alliance score multiplier, or personal collectibles I already have to go to resource nodes to increase siege defenses, and delves to increase my alliance score multiplier, and lorebooks and some leads also only drop in cyrodiil or IC ... so yay! We can cross this off the list
20. etc.etc.etc

Looks like the total list is actually about 3-4 things long, if you remove repetitions, unspecified vagueness ("someone should do something!"), or ongoing/existing efforts and mechanics...

1. more objectives (moving supply wagons, fixed resource nodes, etc) to use the 90% of the map that never sees a fight actually a thoughtworthy suggestion if performance supports it.
2. guild ownership of a keep to actually mean something mean what? passive income is a good idea, but it can't mean so much that guilds pay each other for keeps and the like...
3. an end to destructible bridges/gates. Did not spread us out, did not work as intended. Make them capturable objectives. what would making them capturable do? Give extra AP capturing them or?

3 things, there.

Xanttious wrote: »

GusTheWizard wrote: »

I pretty much only play battlegrounds so I’m happy. However I am disappointed that they didn’t do anything for cyrodiil, I feel like it might be hard to do because at this point they’d probably have to change the core mechanics of cyrodiil to make people happy, in the past they’ve added breakable bridges/gates, towns, outposts, and it just doesn’t make people happy. They actually need to change it up completely

Honestly DAOC did it over 20 years ago, asking for a new map, for a new system in cryo as far as siege, how castles are taken or defended isn't asking for the world. Its asking for something that other games have been able to accomplish in the past. Its a matter of if ZoS wants to or not, and from this recent stream and the neglect they have shown to the people that have been on here voicing their opinions, the short answer is no. Nothing will be done. Which saddens me, since ESO PvP does have so much potential, a lot of which is from the player base that still remains. But as time goes on and with other games (mmorpgs) on the horizon that player base is going to shrink, and the likelihood of it drawling people back to the game is slim because of the bad taste that has been put in our mouths for years.

I think "asking for a new system" is not the end though, in an "ask and you shall receive" way. What is wrong with the system now that needs fixing? What map could be lore-friendly and be introduced? Why is that map better or worse than Cyrodiil, and why wouldn't it split the playerbase to have both at once?

The neglect shown to the PVP playerbase is because the PVP playerbase's demands are neglect worthy. Someone walking into a supermarket who is generally dissatisfied with it screaming "DO SOMETHING!" to the manager is going to be equally neglected (if not outright asked to leave). And if they say something like "Put the milk in an unrefidgerated isle just to mix things up!" then ... well, I mean obviously they're not going to do that - especially if they put it in the refridgerated isle because the customers earlier were complaining about it being spoilt constantly.

ragnarok6644b14_ESO wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

1. higher pop caps
2. campaign end rewards to mean something
3. campaign scoring system not decided on what alliance has most Aussie and Asian players
4. more objectives (moving supply wagons, fixed resource nodes, etc) to use the 90% of the map that never sees a fight
5. some sort of scoreboard keeping track of which alliance actually wins a campaign and some reward/consequence for winning them
6. npcs not to use my old beloved skills that ZOS nerfed to the ground against me
7. an acknowledgement from zos that stacking a dozen of the same HoT/shield is a bad mechanic and a test campaign to see what happens when these are removed
8. the rush of agony set to die in a fire
9. an update to the alliance war FAQ seeing how the last update was in April 2014
10. a game master to occasional witness and adjudicate what goes on there
11. the names of hired staff that we actually know are devoted to cyrodiil content and provide feedback via the official forums
12. an attempt to acknowledge that certain skills/abilities are not fun to face as players and thus balanced differently for PvE and PvP
13. keeps/castles that actually favor the defenders.
14. objectives/mechanics that encourage inexperienced/newer players from standing inside a home keep with their map open looking for action
15. guild ownership of a keep to actually mean something
16. an end to destructible bridges/gates. Did not spread us out, did not work as intended. Make them capturable objectives.
17. some seasonal events to add a little spice and variety to playing in Cyrodiil.
18. new alliance war skills/abilities/consumables to deal with the problems and annoying play patterns that have come about in cyrodiil that were not anticipated by the original devs
19. a mechanic that would require/incentivize people to go to different portions of the map to collect/acquire parts/components to do things like strengthen siege defenses, alliance score multiplier, or personal collectibles
20. etc.etc.etc

Basically anything to communicate to me as a paying customer that Cyrodiil is not on autopilot and the company still cares that the game system is a huge part why paying customers still pay ZOS.

So uh...

1. higher pop caps You mean like it used to be when performance was even worse? I thought you wanted performance improvements?
2. campaign end rewards to mean something like what? Mean what to who? Why are they meaningless now? What activity in the game gives more meaningful rewards, and how can cyrodiil's campaigns give them?
3. <snipped for length>

this is uesps current list of campaign rewards: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Campaigns

for a 30 day campaign the rewards are pretty bad honestly, outside of the 50 transmutes, i dont even pay attention to the rewards most of the time, the box of purple jewelry i get for reward tier 3 is 90% of the time just deconned

Joy_Division wrote: »

[*] npcs not to use my old beloved skills that ZOS nerfed to the ground against me

Crystal Frags by any chance? 😂

ragnarok6644b14_ESO wrote: »

[*] higher pop caps You mean like it used to be when performance was even worse? I thought you wanted performance improvements?

Higher pop caps would depend on several points below that help SPREAD PEOPLE OUT. If you've played this game enough you know the difference between 50 players at a keep and 100+ players at a keep. And you can also tell when a Ball group is there. This games performance isn't always bad. Player input and positioning is creating a decline in performance. But in the situation above before 100+ players showed up that area of the map was performing fine. It's the extreme congregation of players in one area that leads to server performance issues.

So yes higher Pop caps with reasons to spread out.

ragnarok6644b14_ESO wrote: »

[*] campaign end rewards to mean something like what? Mean what to who? Why are they meaningless now? What activity in the game gives more meaningful rewards, and how can cyrodiil's campaigns give them?

Jewelry that can be obtained and upgrade to gold by normal means isn't "rewarding". You have trials where you can get perfected versions of gear, you have Arena that give a unique 2 piece set bonus. Both of the above are not vendorable (every PvP piece is). So getting gold jewelry that I could have just upgraded purple ones that cost 10k + 50k in upgrade mats isn't a good reward.... Perfected PvP gear when?

ragnarok6644b14_ESO wrote: »

[*] campaign scoring system not decided on what alliance has most Aussie and Asian players so turn the servers off overnight? Or is there a serious suggestion in here?

Or fix the catch up system... If the score is separated by 10k+ why even bother. But honestly this problem would fix itself if Cyrodiil had refreshing content and influenced more players. Not everyone is on the same schedule, but the population is already so small that off hours can be controlled by a group of 20 people. That should never be the case.

ragnarok6644b14_ESO wrote: »

[*] more objectives (moving supply wagons, fixed resource nodes, etc) to use the 90% of the map that never sees a fight actually a thoughtworthy suggestion if performance supports it.

Helps spread players out increasing performance

ragnarok6644b14_ESO wrote: »

[*] some sort of scoreboard keeping track of which alliance actually wins a campaign and some reward/consequence for winning them press L and click on the leftmost tab next time your're in a campaign

Can be a month long "slight" buff to experience gains or gold gains or AP gains, or unlocks a vendor in that alliances gate. Right now it's just oh I got a bit more gold cool (meaningless amount).

ragnarok6644b14_ESO wrote: »

[*] npcs not to use my old beloved skills that ZOS nerfed to the ground against me ??? they can slightly change the animation skill if that makes you happier

The black bubble still reflects and frags still stun... Just be consistent with the rest of the game. Or sure change the skill entirely. Everytime I get CC'd by a frag I'm like... Yeah those were the days.

ragnarok6644b14_ESO wrote: »

[*] an acknowledgement from zos that stacking a dozen of the same HoT/shield is a bad mechanic and a test campaign to see what happens when these are removed why do you hate teamwork?

Why do you hate a challenge? Once upon a time ball groups had to have dedicated healers and ground based AoE healing mattered (master resto was OP). Now you have a sticky HoT that just needs to be cast every X seconds and you have 20k HPS and you can stay mobile avoiding a large amount of the damage. EASY MODE.

ragnarok6644b14_ESO wrote: »

[*] the rush of agony set to die in a fire balance changes are ongoing - to whatever quality...

A pull set that ignores CC immunity was never a good idea... The chains and delay are a start... But the desync is a serious problem.

ragnarok6644b14_ESO wrote: »

[*] an update to the alliance war FAQ seeing how the last update was in April 2014 and what Q's are F A'd?

We have new repair kits, new siege, we have towns with gear vendors, we have destructible passages, etc etc.

ragnarok6644b14_ESO wrote: »

[*] a game master to occasional witness and adjudicate what goes on there adjudicate what? Reported cheaters? Isn't this already adjudicated? How do you know this isn't happening?

Honestly I don't see cheaters and it's probably hard to distinguish cheaters from just great players. I get whispers all the time saying I'm hacking or macroing (I'm not I've just been playing this game for a decade...)

That being said I think the takeaway here is go play the game and see what's happening so that changes can be made to the game to influence a different path. (My guess).

ragnarok6644b14_ESO wrote: »

[*] the names of hired staff that we actually know are devoted to cyrodiil content and provide feedback via the official forums Cyrodiil content like...? feedback like "well, your idea didn't make sense or was already in progress, so we didn't do it or it's still in progress."? Maybe once you have some specific content that can be worked on, they can hire people to work on it. Carts/caravans are a cool idea.

Give us the pretty firm 18 month plan that they say they have. Is Cyrodiil even in that plan? If not, why....?

Ask us what we would like to see in polls. Bounce some ideas off us before we see them in the PTS patch notes on Monday. Developer communication in these forums is well... Virtually non existent. And its NEVER a back and forth communication, it's being talked at. Doesn't feel good more times than not.

ragnarok6644b14_ESO wrote: »

[*] an attempt to acknowledge that certain skills/abilities are not fun to face as players and thus balanced differently for PvE and PvP Battle spirit already balances skills differently... unless you think Breath of Life is exactly the same in Spindle1 as it is in Cyrodiil...

Cloak is an example, Hardened Ward is an example...

Then on the opposite side Streak is an example, it doesn't need a stacking cost in PvE... No one cares if you move around PvE quickly. But it was desperately needed in PvP and I'm sure some PvE players despised PvP for it.

ragnarok6644b14_ESO wrote: »

[*] keeps/castles that actually favor the defenders. you're right, the defenders would invariably be better off fighting in an open field against whatever force is attacking the keep

I semi disagree/agree with this. Oils pots on the keep are a strong form of defense. HoT stacking and Siege bubbles are just incredibly strong counters that need to be toned down.

But there are areas of the Keep that could definitely have some QoL improvements or we could get trebuchets that didn't feel extremely large and clunky to use. And some siege that felt better to use inside of keeps that aren't the larger tri keeps.

ragnarok6644b14_ESO wrote: »

[*] objectives/mechanics that encourage inexperienced/newer players from standing inside a home keep with their map open looking for action I think being invited to group and being given direction by crown should be enough, but PVP groups seem to hate including new players - what kind of mechanic could do this better than what's already available? What objectives?

I might be asking for too much but an in game chat system.... I don't want a new player in my group because I can't explain things to them and they stand there lost light attacking and killing me with vicious death. They are a liability without instruction. Half of them don't even know how to siege. And inviting them into a discord takes too much effort from my side to warrant adding them to a group.

But that's the developers job to solve, if it's a straight forward mechanic that they can participate in they are more likely to do it.

ragnarok6644b14_ESO wrote: »

[*] guild ownership of a keep to actually mean something mean what? passive income is a good idea, but it can't mean so much that guilds pay each other for keeps and the like...

Could create guild levels like in other games and this could be a way to gain experience for that level. This would need to be a larger system in place and it would depend if you'd want it to be game wide or just PvP oriented.

Or you could make it similar to the daily hireling items where for every X time frame you hold a keep you're sent Material. Alchemy is used a lot in PvP...

ragnarok6644b14_ESO wrote: »

[*] an end to destructible bridges/gates. Did not spread us out, did not work as intended. Make them capturable objectives. what would making them capturable do? Give extra AP capturing them or?

Add them to the scoreboard, allow defense and offense ticks. Potentially add a gate that only allows that alliance to pass (debateable).

ragnarok6644b14_ESO wrote: »

[*] some seasonal events to add a little spice and variety to playing in Cyrodiil. there is definitely already at least one of these...

Midyear mayhem? The only spice it adds is more players... And its been declining each year. We used to fill out all the extra campaigns... Now we don't. And that's with the lowered Pop caps...

Give us some events that bring something new to the table.

ragnarok6644b14_ESO wrote: »

[*] new alliance war skills/abilities/consumables to deal with the problems and annoying play patterns that have come about in cyrodiil that were not anticipated by the original devs is this the third time you mentioned 'balance' or fourth?

Yeah balance is an issue... 40k+ health Warden healers feel like they have no counter. And now they have more block cost reduction and mitigation.

And there are a lot more examples.

Siege that helped counter ball groups would be cool...

ragnarok6644b14_ESO wrote: »

[*] a mechanic that would require/incentivize people to go to different portions of the map to collect/acquire parts/components to do things like strengthen siege defenses, alliance score multiplier, or personal collectibles I already have to go to resource nodes to increase siege defenses, and delves to increase my alliance score multiplier, and lorebooks and some leads also only drop in cyrodiil or IC ... so yay! We can cross this off the list
[*] etc.etc.etc

Not even close... Buffing the guards isn't increased defense unless it's like 3 people trying to take the keep (and even then tri-keeps are the only one with enough guards that this slightly matters). Guards are cannon fodder and increased HP on walls and doors is... Laughable.

You know the triggerable traps that have a cooldown in battlegrounds? Add those...

There are a lot of traps in PvE that could be added (flamethrowers).

And its already in the game!!!

ragnarok6644b14_ESO wrote: »

Looks like the total list is actually about 3-4 things long, if you remove repetitions, unspecified vagueness ("someone should do something!"), or ongoing/existing efforts and mechanics...

1. more objectives (moving supply wagons, fixed resource nodes, etc) to use the 90% of the map that never sees a fight actually a thoughtworthy suggestion if performance supports it.
2. guild ownership of a keep to actually mean something mean what? passive income is a good idea, but it can't mean so much that guilds pay each other for keeps and the like...
3. an end to destructible bridges/gates. Did not spread us out, did not work as intended. Make them capturable objectives. what would making them capturable do? Give extra AP capturing them or?

3 things, there.

Please see responses above. Every point mattered (okay maybe no one cares about the FAQs but it's the point of the matter).

ragnarok6644b14_ESO wrote: »

Xanttious wrote: »

GusTheWizard wrote: »

I pretty much only play battlegrounds so I’m happy. However I am disappointed that they didn’t do anything for cyrodiil, I feel like it might be hard to do because at this point they’d probably have to change the core mechanics of cyrodiil to make people happy, in the past they’ve added breakable bridges/gates, towns, outposts, and it just doesn’t make people happy. They actually need to change it up completely

Honestly DAOC did it over 20 years ago, asking for a new map, for a new system in cryo as far as siege, how castles are taken or defended isn't asking for the world. Its asking for something that other games have been able to accomplish in the past. Its a matter of if ZoS wants to or not, and from this recent stream and the neglect they have shown to the people that have been on here voicing their opinions, the short answer is no. Nothing will be done. Which saddens me, since ESO PvP does have so much potential, a lot of which is from the player base that still remains. But as time goes on and with other games (mmorpgs) on the horizon that player base is going to shrink, and the likelihood of it drawling people back to the game is slim because of the bad taste that has been put in our mouths for years.

I think "asking for a new system" is not the end though, in an "ask and you shall receive" way. What is wrong with the system now that needs fixing? What map could be lore-friendly and be introduced? Why is that map better or worse than Cyrodiil, and why wouldn't it split the playerbase to have both at once?

The neglect shown to the PVP playerbase is because the PVP playerbase's demands are neglect worthy. Someone walking into a supermarket who is generally dissatisfied with it screaming "DO SOMETHING!" to the manager is going to be equally neglected (if not outright asked to leave). And if they say something like "Put the milk in an unrefidgerated isle just to mix things up!" then ... well, I mean obviously they're not going to do that - especially if they put it in the refridgerated isle because the customers earlier were complaining about it being spoilt constantly.

Please stop misrepresenting and distracting from what the PvP community is asking for and has been asking for.