Server Performance Suggestion: Server-Wide Disable Proc Test

edward_frigidhands · September 2024

Hello. Server performance has been quite questionable over the last few months starting with the 10 year anniversary time period.

My suggestion is to initiate a server wide proc disabled test for PC NA to see if there can be a benefit to disabling these effects.

If server performance improves we can possibly look into changing how sets work to ensure the game's performance can be prioritized while preserving the strengths and play style options offered with each set.

I understand that a proc disabled test was conducted earlier but this was before updates to the games server hardware and all of the patches that have come after it.

Additionally, procs were only disabled in Cyrodill previously. I am suggesting a server-wide temporary change for the purposes of testing. Back then, horrid performance was typically and usually observable in Cyrodill primarily.

Right now we face performance impacts in dungeons, IA and Cyrodill during prime time and sometimes during off time.

It would be a worthwhile idea to see if such a change can yield positive results and the findings can be used to update the game in a manner that can benefit overall server performance and connectivity in all gameplay modes and areas.

I invite other players and possibly some ZOS staff to offer their insights

fizzylu · September 2024

Personally, I think if disabling proc sets resulted in close to no performance changes in Cyrodiil then it probably wouldn't do anything major server wide either. And considering performance has been declining since the beginning of May (if not earlier), and even seems connected to when patches/updates hit.... well, I simply can't see proc sets being what's breaking things here and I feel like looking into them would just be a waste of time from pinpointing, or some may even say acknowledging, the actual problem.

Major_Toughness · September 2024

Unless you want cool downs on AoE skills, or only heal group members, I would suggest forgetting about the PvP tests, as they were the only ones that made a difference in Cyrodiil.

Cool downs on skills is obviously a no-go. Healing group only wouldn't make difference really except for world bosses and world events.

Would be funny if you could only heal group members at a world boss though, even more carpets than usual.

GuuMoonRyoung · September 2024

It won't help, ESO is heavily designed to be RNG focused, more so than any other mmo I have played. Every second, the server processor is doing more RNG calculation than any other type of calculation. This game is a glorified RNG simulator with a game skin plastered on it! Unless they reduce RNG to only the bare necessary, the server issues will not go away.

Before you say anything, yes, staying stuck in login queue is also due to the calculation limitation. The CPU is already doing a lot of calculations and has no time to see to your request, thus you are stuck in login queue.

Similarly, sudden lag spikes are also partly due to calculation limitation. Many times without any connection error, routing error, overall network error, server lags like hell. It is due to the calculation limit.

the1andonlyskwex · September 2024

Sets with interesting procs are half the fun of ESO. If getting rid of procs is necessary for performance reasons, they may as well just shut the game down now.

edward_frigidhands · September 2024

Bammlschwamml wrote: »

No thanks to useless tests. We have been playing a beta version of this game for long enough. I am not a developer or game tester, i am a customer. I wanted to buy a working product/game and didn't know i signed up for financing and testing unfinished projects and ideas for 10 years. I am sick of it. Every update and every maintenance is a surprise and a gamble. Almost every time something bad happens on at least one server/platform. Testing should be done before release of new content and if it doesn't work on pts, then don't sell it...

Sometimes i wonder why different platforms and servers work better than others, but I shouldn't have to worry about that. We give them money so professionals can do their job. I have no idea when it became normal to sell broken stuff and let the customer figure out what to do with it.

Unfortunately that has been the state and nature of gaming for a long time. And current customer/consumer behaviors don't seem to incentivize any reasonable change for the people selling these products/services.

edward_frigidhands · September 2024

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Sets with interesting procs are half the fun of ESO. If getting rid of procs is necessary for performance reasons, they may as well just shut the game down now.

I don't disagree with the initial part of your post, however we are at a point where some more information is needed in my opinion so that the developers behind the scenes can make real progress towards fixing this long-standing issue.

edward_frigidhands · September 2024

Major_Toughness wrote: »

Unless you want cool downs on AoE skills, or only heal group members, I would suggest forgetting about the PvP tests, as they were the only ones that made a difference in Cyrodiil.

Cool downs on skills is obviously a no-go. Healing group only wouldn't make difference really except for world bosses and world events.

Would be funny if you could only heal group members at a world boss though, even more carpets than usual.

I am not advocating for any of that. I am not even advocating for removal of procs even. I am just saying maybe it's time to try and get some more information regarding the issue and make real steps and investment towards a set of solutions.

LadyGP · September 2024

Bring calculations back to client side.

edward_frigidhands · January 7

LadyGP wrote: »

Bring calculations back to client side.

I think that would open up the game to cheat code issues wouldn't it?

I mostly just want a server wide test to establish whether how much it alters performance and to see what can be done with that data.

Wereswan · January 7

edward_frigidhands wrote: »

LadyGP wrote: »

Bring calculations back to client side.

I think that would open up the game to cheat code issues wouldn't it?

I mostly just want a server wide test to establish whether how much it alters performance and to see what can be done with that data.

Rule #1 of any multiplayer game is that nothing client-side can be trusted.

LadyGP · January 7

edward_frigidhands wrote: »

LadyGP wrote: »

Bring calculations back to client side.

I think that would open up the game to cheat code issues wouldn't it?

I mostly just want a server wide test to establish whether how much it alters performance and to see what can be done with that data.

It would so ZoS would absolutley have to improve their cheat detection tools.

Honestly, this comment was a hail marry if NOTHING changes. I think it's fair to say there are wayyyyy to many constant server checks/calcs in this game thats just hammering performance and to begin to unwind them is one heck of an effort.

zaria · January 7

edward_frigidhands wrote: »

LadyGP wrote: »

Bring calculations back to client side.

I think that would open up the game to cheat code issues wouldn't it?

I mostly just want a server wide test to establish whether how much it alters performance and to see what can be done with that data.

Cyrodil is special since all has to run on one server.
Other places its instances that is both overland where its shards if popular and real instances like dungeons, battlegrounds and trials.

Yes it can be bugs in the instance system like they had trials tied to the zone shard some times with idiotic lag and this is long ago.
Mostly I say its an client issue.

Tommy_The_Gun · January 7

I would love to see no-proc Cyro. The issue with the test is that you would most likely have very little players playing during this test as the only ones who are left are sweaty nerds & ball groups. All other players that were interested in fair challenge have left long ago and chances are they are not coming back ever again. So you would have better performance for sure, but because of decreased amount of players & not beacuse of less proc sets would be used.

I agree - proc sets do put certain stress on the server but are also very cheesy & toxic. But this test would simply not work well.

Stamicka · January 7

edward_frigidhands wrote: »

LadyGP wrote: »

Bring calculations back to client side.

I think that would open up the game to cheat code issues wouldn't it?

I mostly just want a server wide test to establish whether how much it alters performance and to see what can be done with that data.

On PS5 and Xbox Series X I think it would actually be fine to have more client side calculations because console players don't have the ability to install programs that would modify the game's memory. I'm not sure about PS5, but everything goes through a verification process before it can be downloaded on a Xbox. I have ESO accounts on both PC NA and Xbox NA. Strangely enough, Cyrodiil performance on Xbox NA is significantly better than on PC NA, although PvE still remains superior on PC. I find myself going to Cyrodiil on Xbox these days since the Series X has a very stable 60FPS, fast load times, and less weird freezing issues.

PC is a different story. There would need to be a kernel level anti-cheat similar to what Valorant players have to install if we wanted more stuff on the client again. A lot of people find this too invasive.

Wereswan wrote: »

edward_frigidhands wrote: »

LadyGP wrote: »

Bring calculations back to client side.

I think that would open up the game to cheat code issues wouldn't it?

I mostly just want a server wide test to establish whether how much it alters performance and to see what can be done with that data.

Rule #1 of any multiplayer game is that nothing client-side can be trusted.

A lot of games still leave things that need to feel very responsive to the user on the client side, they just use anti-cheat software like I mentioned.

Stamicka · January 7

In regards to the OP, what's weird about the previous no proc test is that performance got worse... which made no sense. I wonder if whatever was keeping procs from working was straining the server more than proc sets themselves.

Regardless, no proc is certainly better for balance at the very least. I would love to see something done with no proc once again. I can't imagine status effect proc modifiers and chances are great for performance either. They've certainly been awful for balance too. I hope to see status effects looked into or adjusted in PvP environments as well.

edward_frigidhands · January 8

Stamicka wrote: »

In regards to the OP, what's weird about the previous no proc test is that performance got worse... which made no sense. I wonder if whatever what keeping procs from working was straining the server more than proc sets themselves.

Regardless, no proc is certainly better for balance at the very least. I would love to see something done with no proc once again. I can't imagine status effect proc modifiers and chances are great for performance either. They've certainly been awful for balance too. I hope to see status effects looked into or adjusted in PvP environments as well.

I understand the concerns regarding balance and meta which I don't entirely agree with.

However my view is that it's time to prioritize overall server performance and see what works.

katanagirl1 · January 8

edward_frigidhands wrote: »

Stamicka wrote: »

In regards to the OP, what's weird about the previous no proc test is that performance got worse... which made no sense. I wonder if whatever what keeping procs from working was straining the server more than proc sets themselves.

Regardless, no proc is certainly better for balance at the very least. I would love to see something done with no proc once again. I can't imagine status effect proc modifiers and chances are great for performance either. They've certainly been awful for balance too. I hope to see status effects looked into or adjusted in PvP environments as well.

I understand the concerns regarding balance and meta which I don't entirely agree with.

However my view is that it's time to prioritize overall server performance and see what works.

I have questions about the previous performance tests, like it was stated that procs “would not fire”. That makes me wonder if the calculations for the fifth piece of gear were still done but the effects were not applied to enemy players or to the user if applicable. That would explain why no improvement was seen then. I also would expect that the performance test did look at server performance and that was okay, but the individual player performance was not able to be obtained and that of course is what we are experiencing.

melvin10 · January 9

edward_frigidhands wrote: »

Hello. Server performance has been quite questionable over the last few months starting with the 10 year anniversary time period.

My suggestion is to initiate a server wide proc disabled test for PC NA to see if there can be a benefit to disabling these effects.

This happened already. It did absolutely nothing.

YandereGirlfriend · January 9

You can do server anti-cheat without kernel-level anti-cheat for users but you definitely won't prevent the entire universe of possible cheats. And I, for one, am okay with that. I would honestly accept a few cheaters in my Cyrodiil if we could massively improve performance for everyone.

Detecting if someone has obvious cheats like 100% Critical Chance or 500% Movement Speed or 200k Health is straightforward. So cheats would evolve to become less obvious. But that also means that they provide less of an advantage to the cheater. It might not feel amazing to exist alongside cheaters but if that is the price for my skills actually firing... so be it.

Varana · January 10

And I can guarantee you that the moment you open up PvP to cheaters, there will be even more people complaining, crying, and declaring PvP dead than now. Skills going off is of no use if they have no effect, or don't protect you, or can't target the enemy, or whatever else you can imagine.
Everything that happens client-side can be tampered with easily. Anti-cheat tools are an arms race that eat a lot of resources, and a neverending game of whackamole that the anti-cheat tools cannot win.

As for "disabling procs just to test", I suggest some other tests as well. How about disabling all weapon skill lines? Reducing all damage skills to melee range? Removing Templars from the game? Replacing the textured and modelled environment (like trees and castles) with basic geometric shapes?
Blaming these things for performance is just as well-founded as blaming every other thing the game does, like proc sets.

Sakiri · January 10

Varana wrote: »

And I can guarantee you that the moment you open up PvP to cheaters, there will be even more people complaining, crying, and declaring PvP dead than now. Skills going off is of no use if they have no effect, or don't protect you, or can't target the enemy, or whatever else you can imagine.
Everything that happens client-side can be tampered with easily. Anti-cheat tools are an arms race that eat a lot of resources, and a neverending game of whackamole that the anti-cheat tools cannot win.

As for "disabling procs just to test", I suggest some other tests as well. How about disabling all weapon skill lines? Reducing all damage skills to melee range? Removing Templars from the game? Replacing the textured and modelled environment (like trees and castles) with basic geometric shapes?
Blaming these things for performance is just as well-founded as blaming every other thing the game does, like proc sets.

To be fair, proc calculation eats up a shedload of processing power. It's a valid idea.

That said, they tested it. It actually helped but no one liked it. That campaign was dead. It also renders about 98% of the sets in the game useless because they can't come up with good non proc based set effects.