Before next PTS cycle starts...

necro_the_crafter · August 30

First and foremost thatnks for the necromancer changes this patch, theese buff was very needed and pretty much appretiated.

Now to face the final boss, the monstrosity, the ugliest of the ugly, the disgusting general clunkiness of necro class skills.

All that is written below is from PvPer prespective and about PvP.

Class cant setup for its own skills. It lacks simplicity, consistancy and effectivnes.

Hitting three smashes of Pestilent Colossus on someones head is effective, but inconsistant due to lack of innate CC.

Staked up Venom Skull hits quite hard, almost same damage as Blight Bones, only no stun in the game secure its landig on someone. I dont understand how can you consistantly have a nightblade hit its assassins will on stunned enemy every time, but not allow necros to hit their skull on stuned enemy. Projectile is so slow you can break free, run to the keep, port onto gates, run to wayshrine, port craglorn, join vHRC pug group, complete vHRC, return back to cyro, then roll ... And it will miss.

Htting two last circles of Grave Grasp is effective, but to complex due to heavily telgraphed nature of a skill, as well as its movement from the point it was casted, which make it easy to predict where next circles will appear. Also you will almost never hit 3/3 on that ability even when its lands, which is means that on times when its hits somone you paying that high magicka cost for 2/3 of the spell potentionall, but most of time you are dumping that mana on the ground to create funny circles.

Placing Totem of Agony is more about telling people to stay off the area than actualy securing that area. People can run in and cc break, or preuse immovable pot and run in. Even in best case scenarios this spell is inconsistant. You cant expect it to fear the target you want feared even if you place it on their head.

Ruinous Sythe seems like consistant source of off-balance, but, sythe itself can be dodged(while other non-target aoes like impulse, jabs, power drain cant lol), outruned, blocked, or its simply wont connect due to positional desync.
Goliath isnt a *o crap* button, you still easily killable, it far less effective than a restro ult, shield ult or undo.

And the whole corpse mech is just to complex to be viable in PvP. Nobility in Decay is a must if you wanna use any tether, making any competition for a back bar set absolete. Only way to fix this isuue is to give player a control over corpses placement. We need a skills that will consistanly drop a corpse in area where we want that corpse to be. Ideally we want to have universally acsessible self-corpse as well as enemy-corpse(debuff that applies to enemy making it targetable for corpse consuming spells) that way we can actualy use our kit in fast paced ESO combat system. Without missing all of our shots because enemy woke up and decided to move away from a red circle.
And we need a hard cc. Simple, consistant, effective. Like Fossilize, or maybe like a Streak, or for example like a Javelin, or maybe like a Mass Hysteria, or maybe like a Rune of Eldrich Horror, or at least like an Arctic Burst.

Playing Necro in PvP brings a lot of frustration, and kills all fun really quickly. Every time your blightbones gets lost, your collosus hits no one, low hp enemy starts block healing/shielding with you having no way to counter that, enemy simply sprint away from you with you having nothing to keep the chase going... its just builds up frustration more than anything.But yet we are here, still playing our favorite class, h(c)oping that one day devs gonna do something about it, and with recent changes i hope that theese issues gonna get adressed.

StarOfElyon · August 30

Two main pain points for me: Necromancer and Redguards.

Necromancer:

StarOfElyon wrote: »

This is an updated version of my Necro ideas thread from 2023 (https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/633137/suggestions-for-necromancer-changes) with adjustments accounting for the Update 43 patch notes.

Death Scythe: (both morphs)
Deals more damage based on the enemy's missing health.
- Hungry Scythe: should also apply life steal to all enemies hit, in addition to healing the caster over time.

Shocking Siphon: The AOE should remain on the ground even if the tether breaks early. (Increase the radius size too)
- Mystic Siphon: the increased Health, Magicka, and Stamina Recovery persists even if the tether breaks early.

Flame Skull:
- Riccochet Skull/Venom Skull: applies burning/poisoned status effects. (Increase travel speed)

Bone Totem: summons an effigy of bones up to 28 meters away. After 1 second, the totem begins fearing nearby enemies every 2 seconds, causing them to cower in place for 4 seconds. (Changed to allow both morphs to be targeted)

Restoring Tether: the effects persist on the player character even if the tether breaks early.

Render Flesh:
- Resistant Flesh: (remains unchanged)
- Blood Sacrifice: consumes a corpse to grant you Major Courage (or Major Berserk) for 10 seconds.

Expunge: reduces the cost of all your abilities by 3% while slotted on either bar.

Bitter Harvest: when slotted on either bar, reduces your damage taken by 3%.

Boneyard increase the radius to 8 meters.

PASSIVES:
Corpse Consumption: When you consume a corpse, you generate 10 Ultimate. This effect can occur once every 16 seconds. You also gain Major Savagery and Prophecy for 20 seconds, increasing your Weapon and Spell Critical rating by 2629.

Undead Confederate: While you have a Sacrificial Bones, Skeletal Mage, or Spirit Mender active, your Health, Magicka, and Stamina Recovery is increased by 200. You also gain Major Brutality and Sorcery for 20 seconds, increasing your Weapon and Spell Damage by 20%.

ULTIMATES:
Frozen Colossus: Unleash a decayed Flesh Colossus to pulverize enemies in the area. The Colossus smashes the ground three times over 3 seconds. Dealing damage applies Major Vulnerability to any enemy hit for 12 seconds.
- Glacial Colossus: does frost damage and stuns enemies on the second hit instead of the third.
- Pestilent Colossus: smashes the ground only once and does disease damage. Afflicts enemies with a pestilence that does damage over time.

Redguards:

StarOfElyon wrote: »

These are some tweaks I would like to see made to the Redguards's passives. Hopefully, they will be seen as reasonable among the devs. They keep in mind the Redguards's reputation for endurance (stamina return) and discipline (reduced ability cost).
"The Redguards of Hammerfell are talented and athletic warriors, born to battle. A desert people, their ancestors migrated to Tamriel from the lost continent of Yokuda. Their culture is based on preserving ancient traditions and defying their harsh environment. They prize honor and dignity above all else, combining a deep reverence for the divine with a suspicion of all things magical. Their capital is the merchant port of Sentinel, but their roots are deep in the sands of the Alik'r Desert. In their youth, Redguards endure a rite of passage in the desolate wastes of Alik'r as a test of endurance and discipline. Only the strongest survive." https://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Redguard

PASSIVES:

Wayfarer - Increases your experience gain with the One Hand and Shield skill line by 15%. Increases the duration of any eaten food by 15 minutes.

*Martial Training - Reduces the stamina cost of your abilities by 6%. Reduces the effectiveness of snares applied to you by 15%.
Redguards need help as a stamina sustain race. Reduced stamina cost across the board seems fitting.

Conditioning - Increases your Max Stamina by 2000.

*Adrenaline Rush - Increases your stamina recovery by 130. When you deal or take damage, you restore 248 Stamina. This effect can occur once every 3 seconds.
A big problem with the old version of this passive is that it was way too active, requiring you to spend resources to get resources back. It causes problems when you're not in a position to deal damage. No damage; no sustain. This change makes the "adrenaline rush" passive more "passive" and is still tied to being in combat. This also reinforces their reputation for endurance, "the ability to withstand hardship or adversity."

FoJul · September 1

necro_the_crafter wrote: »

First and foremost thatnks for the necromancer changes this patch, theese buff was very needed and pretty much appretiated.

Now to face the final boss, the monstrosity, the ugliest of the ugly, the disgusting general clunkiness of necro class skills.

All that is written below is from PvPer prespective and about PvP.

Class cant setup for its own skills. It lacks simplicity, consistancy and effectivnes.

Hitting three smashes of Pestilent Colossus on someones head is effective, but inconsistant due to lack of innate CC.

Staked up Venom Skull hits quite hard, almost same damage as Blight Bones, only no stun in the game secure its landig on someone. I dont understand how can you consistantly have a nightblade hit its assassins will on stunned enemy every time, but not allow necros to hit their skull on stuned enemy. Projectile is so slow you can break free, run to the keep, port onto gates, run to wayshrine, port craglorn, join vHRC pug group, complete vHRC, return back to cyro, then roll ... And it will miss.

Htting two last circles of Grave Grasp is effective, but to complex due to heavily telgraphed nature of a skill, as well as its movement from the point it was casted, which make it easy to predict where next circles will appear. Also you will almost never hit 3/3 on that ability even when its lands, which is means that on times when its hits somone you paying that high magicka cost for 2/3 of the spell potentionall, but most of time you are dumping that mana on the ground to create funny circles.

Placing Totem of Agony is more about telling people to stay off the area than actualy securing that area. People can run in and cc break, or preuse immovable pot and run in. Even in best case scenarios this spell is inconsistant. You cant expect it to fear the target you want feared even if you place it on their head.

Ruinous Sythe seems like consistant source of off-balance, but, sythe itself can be dodged(while other non-target aoes like impulse, jabs, power drain cant lol), outruned, blocked, or its simply wont connect due to positional desync.
Goliath isnt a *o crap* button, you still easily killable, it far less effective than a restro ult, shield ult or undo.

And the whole corpse mech is just to complex to be viable in PvP. Nobility in Decay is a must if you wanna use any tether, making any competition for a back bar set absolete. Only way to fix this isuue is to give player a control over corpses placement. We need a skills that will consistanly drop a corpse in area where we want that corpse to be. Ideally we want to have universally acsessible self-corpse as well as enemy-corpse(debuff that applies to enemy making it targetable for corpse consuming spells) that way we can actualy use our kit in fast paced ESO combat system. Without missing all of our shots because enemy woke up and decided to move away from a red circle.
And we need a hard cc. Simple, consistant, effective. Like Fossilize, or maybe like a Streak, or for example like a Javelin, or maybe like a Mass Hysteria, or maybe like a Rune of Eldrich Horror, or at least like an Arctic Burst.

Playing Necro in PvP brings a lot of frustration, and kills all fun really quickly. Every time your blightbones gets lost, your collosus hits no one, low hp enemy starts block healing/shielding with you having no way to counter that, enemy simply sprint away from you with you having nothing to keep the chase going... its just builds up frustration more than anything.But yet we are here, still playing our favorite class, h(c)oping that one day devs gonna do something about it, and with recent changes i hope that theese issues gonna get adressed.

Yeah I stopped reading after you said, Nightblades bows always land. lol

Navaac223 · September 1

FoJul wrote: »

necro_the_crafter wrote: »

First and foremost thatnks for the necromancer changes this patch, theese buff was very needed and pretty much appretiated.

Now to face the final boss, the monstrosity, the ugliest of the ugly, the disgusting general clunkiness of necro class skills.

All that is written below is from PvPer prespective and about PvP.

Class cant setup for its own skills. It lacks simplicity, consistancy and effectivnes.

Hitting three smashes of Pestilent Colossus on someones head is effective, but inconsistant due to lack of innate CC.

Staked up Venom Skull hits quite hard, almost same damage as Blight Bones, only no stun in the game secure its landig on someone. I dont understand how can you consistantly have a nightblade hit its assassins will on stunned enemy every time, but not allow necros to hit their skull on stuned enemy. Projectile is so slow you can break free, run to the keep, port onto gates, run to wayshrine, port craglorn, join vHRC pug group, complete vHRC, return back to cyro, then roll ... And it will miss.

Htting two last circles of Grave Grasp is effective, but to complex due to heavily telgraphed nature of a skill, as well as its movement from the point it was casted, which make it easy to predict where next circles will appear. Also you will almost never hit 3/3 on that ability even when its lands, which is means that on times when its hits somone you paying that high magicka cost for 2/3 of the spell potentionall, but most of time you are dumping that mana on the ground to create funny circles.

Placing Totem of Agony is more about telling people to stay off the area than actualy securing that area. People can run in and cc break, or preuse immovable pot and run in. Even in best case scenarios this spell is inconsistant. You cant expect it to fear the target you want feared even if you place it on their head.

Ruinous Sythe seems like consistant source of off-balance, but, sythe itself can be dodged(while other non-target aoes like impulse, jabs, power drain cant lol), outruned, blocked, or its simply wont connect due to positional desync.
Goliath isnt a *o crap* button, you still easily killable, it far less effective than a restro ult, shield ult or undo.

And the whole corpse mech is just to complex to be viable in PvP. Nobility in Decay is a must if you wanna use any tether, making any competition for a back bar set absolete. Only way to fix this isuue is to give player a control over corpses placement. We need a skills that will consistanly drop a corpse in area where we want that corpse to be. Ideally we want to have universally acsessible self-corpse as well as enemy-corpse(debuff that applies to enemy making it targetable for corpse consuming spells) that way we can actualy use our kit in fast paced ESO combat system. Without missing all of our shots because enemy woke up and decided to move away from a red circle.
And we need a hard cc. Simple, consistant, effective. Like Fossilize, or maybe like a Streak, or for example like a Javelin, or maybe like a Mass Hysteria, or maybe like a Rune of Eldrich Horror, or at least like an Arctic Burst.

Playing Necro in PvP brings a lot of frustration, and kills all fun really quickly. Every time your blightbones gets lost, your collosus hits no one, low hp enemy starts block healing/shielding with you having no way to counter that, enemy simply sprint away from you with you having nothing to keep the chase going... its just builds up frustration more than anything.But yet we are here, still playing our favorite class, h(c)oping that one day devs gonna do something about it, and with recent changes i hope that theese issues gonna get adressed.

Yeah I stopped reading after you said, Nightblades bows always land. lol

It's still way, way, way better than skull. At least it can land, unlike skull, and its damage is more than worth the risk of getting dodged

FoJul · September 1

Navaac223 wrote: »

FoJul wrote: »

necro_the_crafter wrote: »

First and foremost thatnks for the necromancer changes this patch, theese buff was very needed and pretty much appretiated.

Now to face the final boss, the monstrosity, the ugliest of the ugly, the disgusting general clunkiness of necro class skills.

All that is written below is from PvPer prespective and about PvP.

Class cant setup for its own skills. It lacks simplicity, consistancy and effectivnes.

Hitting three smashes of Pestilent Colossus on someones head is effective, but inconsistant due to lack of innate CC.

Staked up Venom Skull hits quite hard, almost same damage as Blight Bones, only no stun in the game secure its landig on someone. I dont understand how can you consistantly have a nightblade hit its assassins will on stunned enemy every time, but not allow necros to hit their skull on stuned enemy. Projectile is so slow you can break free, run to the keep, port onto gates, run to wayshrine, port craglorn, join vHRC pug group, complete vHRC, return back to cyro, then roll ... And it will miss.

Htting two last circles of Grave Grasp is effective, but to complex due to heavily telgraphed nature of a skill, as well as its movement from the point it was casted, which make it easy to predict where next circles will appear. Also you will almost never hit 3/3 on that ability even when its lands, which is means that on times when its hits somone you paying that high magicka cost for 2/3 of the spell potentionall, but most of time you are dumping that mana on the ground to create funny circles.

Placing Totem of Agony is more about telling people to stay off the area than actualy securing that area. People can run in and cc break, or preuse immovable pot and run in. Even in best case scenarios this spell is inconsistant. You cant expect it to fear the target you want feared even if you place it on their head.

Ruinous Sythe seems like consistant source of off-balance, but, sythe itself can be dodged(while other non-target aoes like impulse, jabs, power drain cant lol), outruned, blocked, or its simply wont connect due to positional desync.
Goliath isnt a *o crap* button, you still easily killable, it far less effective than a restro ult, shield ult or undo.

And the whole corpse mech is just to complex to be viable in PvP. Nobility in Decay is a must if you wanna use any tether, making any competition for a back bar set absolete. Only way to fix this isuue is to give player a control over corpses placement. We need a skills that will consistanly drop a corpse in area where we want that corpse to be. Ideally we want to have universally acsessible self-corpse as well as enemy-corpse(debuff that applies to enemy making it targetable for corpse consuming spells) that way we can actualy use our kit in fast paced ESO combat system. Without missing all of our shots because enemy woke up and decided to move away from a red circle.
And we need a hard cc. Simple, consistant, effective. Like Fossilize, or maybe like a Streak, or for example like a Javelin, or maybe like a Mass Hysteria, or maybe like a Rune of Eldrich Horror, or at least like an Arctic Burst.

Playing Necro in PvP brings a lot of frustration, and kills all fun really quickly. Every time your blightbones gets lost, your collosus hits no one, low hp enemy starts block healing/shielding with you having no way to counter that, enemy simply sprint away from you with you having nothing to keep the chase going... its just builds up frustration more than anything.But yet we are here, still playing our favorite class, h(c)oping that one day devs gonna do something about it, and with recent changes i hope that theese issues gonna get adressed.

Yeah I stopped reading after you said, Nightblades bows always land. lol

It's still way, way, way better than skull. At least it can land, unlike skull, and its damage is more than worth the risk of getting dodged

skull is a spammable not a burst, Necros blastbones would be what you compare to merciless resolve. Blastbones hits the target majority of the time. Nb bow is less effective than blastbones when it comes to consistency.

Urvoth · September 2

On top of all your points of being clunky, necro purely lacks damage, plain and simple. Every source of class damage is either finicky, clunky, unreliable, or just weak, and there's not even many sources of damage to begin with. Stalking at least gave us something to build around, but Blighted is significantly weaker and forces you to either play stam or run a hybrid rotation. Stamcro is probably in the best spot it's been in awhile, but still lacks class damage sources and the core overlapping class skills still have plenty of issues.

Sac bones is yet another buff/utility skill that doesn't do actual damage, and buffing dots is almost useless since there's 0 class sticky dots and the only 2 generic mag sticky dots are relatively weak to the point where a 15% buff does nothing to help whatsoever. Ricochet Skull needs the "any necromancer ability counts" component of Venom Skull to be remotely viable. If you're using it with Sac bones, you basically want to be spamming it to get the aoe procs, but it's incredibly slow and clunky, and the damage output of only spamming that one skill is terrible. In active PvP, you just don't have time to be spamming the skill multiple times to finally get your burst. You have to be buffing, healing, and using other skills in general, so you really aren't able to get the proc off very much at all, and when you do occasionally get it off, you don't have any other burst to synergize with it. Ricochet Skull with the Sac buff combined with old Stalking would've been much more viable.

Scribing doesn't solve any of our damage issues either. The scribing dots are so pathetically weak that buffing them from necro passives/Sac bones is completely negligible. Even with Draugrkin, an inferno staff, rapid rot, AND Sac bones, they're still complete trash, and Necro needs strong sticky dots for Sac bones to really do anything. Trample's cast time also makes it mostly useless for solo/small scale since you can't consistently use a skill with a 1.5s cast time, which is unfortunate since if it was a delayed damage skill maybe it could've made up for Stalking's loss.

It's time for ZOS to reevaluate the corpse mechanic for PvP and necro in general. Although it works relatively well in PvE, and Necro has historically had a solid and fun rotation, most of those PvE skills are static and mostly useless in PvP. Maybe corpses could be converted to a crux-type mechanic that isn't reliant on static placement.

Playing Necro in PvP takes far more work just to get half the results that you can have on other classes. Build options are more limited since you're forced to crutch on procs to get any damage, and procs are nowhere near as strong as they used to be. Just to get siphon to work for instance, we have to run Nobility, then cast 2 skills in a specific order otherwise the self-corpse will likely be consumed by a different ability. All that to get a dot that only has a 5m radius when even light attacks are 7m and the rest of the class wants to be ranged. On every other class you can just press buttons and do reliable, consistent damage, regardless of sets worn.

There's just so many issues with Necro, I wish they'd just go back to the drawing board and completely redesign it. Even if it didn't turn out well, it can't really get much worse than what we have right now.

necro_the_crafter · September 2

FoJul wrote: »

Yeah I stopped reading after you said, Nightblades bows always land. lol

First of all mechanicly skull much more alike a bow, you get the staks and then you fire hard hitting projectile.
Scond, Im talking about hitting a skill after landing a stun. Bow in meele lands 10\10 if you doesnt have any lag present after you hit a stun. Skull hits only if your opponent is afk or drunk, or forget to bind a breakfree button.