I have played all roles, including DK tank, in vet trials up to and including partial hard modes, e.g. vCR+2 and vAS+2.

Questions 1 and 2 seem very advanced to me. At my difficulty level and considering I often PUG, I have never bothered slotting those skills. I think you surmised correctly that they are for larger coordinated groups, if you use them at all. I would only start thinking about them, if I was getting into trial hard modes, or maybe the hardest dungeon hard modes. That said, players who play routinely at that level may trickle down their skill bars into all of their builds, because it's not a bother to them. Thus you may see accomplished YouTubers recommending these skills. Will someone hold it against you when you don't do so in a PUG? Absolutely not. I have never been asked to slot them. Unless you play regularly with the same group, I think you end up with DDs who have much bigger problems than the tank squeezing out the last bit of damage for them. As I always say with regard to DDs: +X% of nothing is still nothing. The difference between individual DDs in a PUG can be as high as 100%, 200%, sometimes more. The gap has shrunk with arcanists, but when the dungeon group feels good, it's first and foremost because you got good DDs, not because you squeezed out X% more damage, where X is in the single or low double digits. I also think fire damage is less prevalent overall than it used to be, and Engulfing Flames may not be meta anymore at all. I could be wrong on that last point. It's probably just very situational.

Question 3 stands in stark contrast to the other two. Are you so experienced that you know mechanics everywhere and you are, therefore, not blocking by default? Do you only block when you have to? I work the opposite way. I clamp down on block unless I know I don't have to. 1K stamina may not seem like much, but it is. 4K cost is a lot, but you frequently have nothing else to spend your magicka on. That said, you also get Major Mending and a decent shield, including for group members. That's nothing to be sneezed at.

Some fights are borderline. Talaria, the last boss in vDSR (Dreadsail Reef) is such a fight. Just standing there, blocking, can still get you killed. Even at 40K health, she may one shot you, especially if you are not quite at full health. There are various ways of dealing with that. One is dodge rolling the attack. Another is Magma Shell. Another is using the Hardened Ward and Igneous Shield shields while blocking. This isn't even hard mode I'm talking about. I can personally only imagine what hard mode is like. Aside from that fight, stacking Hardened Ward and Igneous Shield also gives you some security while letting go of block and restoring stamina with a heavy attack.

In regard to the sustain question, you want to invest in magicka regen as a tank. I think mine has something like 1.7K from the Atro Mundus, Red Frothgar and 1 jewelry enchant, without potion. Most tanks prefer food over Red Frothgar, as far as I'm aware, and 3x magicka recovery enchants. However my setup allows for using 1x block cost reduction and 1x skill cost reduction (Indeko) enchants. This is what I prefer along with all Hakeijo-enchanted gear, about 40K health and ~20K magicka and stamina, with stamina > magicka to ensure synergies restore stamina. In addition, if no one asks me to wear particular sets, I like fitting the Torc of Tonal Constancy into my build. When my stamina drops below 50%, because I'm blocking, the Torc ups my magicka regen by another significant amount.

A further way to manage your resources on DK is, of course, having ultigen from the likes of Drake's Rush and ultigen potions or a (possibly scribed) Minor Heroism skill. Drake's Rush is arguably a decent set for dungeons, since it gives ultimate to 3 other players as well. Bloodspawn, on the other hand, is arguably more of a PvP set. You don't typically get hammered with lots of (small) attacks in PvE, like you do in PvP. This leaves Bloodspawn with a smaller proc chance in the former environment.

I forgot to say that, if you don't have or don't regularly use any other Earthen Heart skill, then Obsidian Shield is also the only skill that gives the group Minor Brutality. This is actually a big deal. It's a unique buff that groups expect a DK to bring to the table. Like everything else it won't make or break the group like good DDs can, but it's a further benefit to running that skill.

Here's a version of my DK tank build. It's the most comfortable "selfish" version that I run:

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=581822

I note that UESP is acting up. Skill 1 on the back bar is Frost Clench. Skill 4 is Frost Blockade. Also it turns out that I don't use a block cost reduction enchant anymore, but 2x magicka regen.

Drake's Rush is fine for 4-man groups, but also particularly comfortable in vAS+2. I will however swap it out if I'm asked or if I don't see the other tank wearing Pearlescent. Alternatives include Saxhleel, Pearlescent and Lucent Echoes. In place of the Torc / Potentates / Trainee combo, I may wear Crimson Oath or Powerful Assault on the back bar. I don't use Turning Tide, but it's popular. I just carry Devyric to use instead of Tremorscale.

I like Swift jewelry. It helps in vDSR. It helps with DDs rushing in dungeons. It's nice in vet Blackrose Prison. It's another luxury I can afford by using Red Frothgar to help with the magicka sustain. I would say most tanks use Infused jewelry and all magicka regen enchants.

Let's discuss a few of the skills. Pierce Armor heals you via Master 1H+S. Unrelenting Grip can act as a free ranged taunt for enemies that can't be pulled. However it only has a 22m range and is a second-tier taunt. To take over an enemy from the other tank in a trial from range, you need Frost Clench (or the Undaunted taunt or maybe a scribed taunt). You probably don't need the latter in a dungeon, but in a trial, due to mechanics, it can be necessary or at least very useful.

If I don't need Unrelenting Grip, I tend to slot Defensive Stance in that spot, because the +10% passive mitigation is additive with some other blocking factors, making it much stronger than 10% in practice. While this is highly build and situation dependent, I've gotten as much as a 27% additional mitigation in testing from Defensive Stance, passively. It beats Revealing Flare by a mile for blockable damage. (EDIT: Are they patching or have they patched the block factor stacking mechanic? I forget.)

Barrier just gives you more magicka regen passively. You might use it actively to help the group or you might slot Warhorn instead. However, when wearing Saxhleel there isn't much point to using Warhorn. I'm a lazy guy. I like Magma Shell and, when wearing Saxhleel, you can't argue.

The rest of the back bar might merit further discussion:

Inner Light is entirely passive and a way to compensate for the low magicka due to my using Red Frothgar as the food. I put a magicka enchant on the front bar shield. Inner Light on the back bar keeps magicka more or less balanced between the two bars. However I sometimes slot Revealing Flare for the Major Protection instead.

Cauterize is another self-heal. I took to using it while pugging vAS+2. If asked, I will put Igneous Weapons in that spot instead, e.g. to give the group Major Brutality / Sorcery.

Elemental Blockade is tanking 101. Keep the boss standing in it to proc the back bar enchant for +2K penetration.

Resolving Vigor is there for the Minor Resolve more so than the heal, although the heal is sometimes useful too and the skill is needed to proc Powerful Assault when wearing that.

And for sure Frothgar + Atronach is the best by far.

fred4 wrote: »

I have played all roles, including DK tank, in vet trials up to and including partial hard modes, e.g. vCR+2 and vAS+2.

Questions 1 and 2 seem very advanced to me. At my difficulty level and considering I often PUG, I have never bothered slotting those skills. I think you surmised correctly that they are for larger coordinated groups, if you use them at all. I would only start thinking about them, if I was getting into trial hard modes, or maybe the hardest dungeon hard modes. That said, players who play routinely at that level may trickle down their skill bars into all of their builds, because it's not a bother to them. Thus you may see accomplished YouTubers recommending these skills. Will someone hold it against you when you don't do so in a PUG? Absolutely not. I have never been asked to slot them. Unless you play regularly with the same group, I think you end up with DDs who have much bigger problems than the tank squeezing out the last bit of damage for them. As I always say with regard to DDs: +X% of nothing is still nothing. The difference between individual DDs in a PUG can be as high as 100%, 200%, sometimes more. The gap has shrunk with arcanists, but when the dungeon group feels good, it's first and foremost because you got good DDs, not because you squeezed out X% more damage, where X is in the single or low double digits. I also think fire damage is less prevalent overall than it used to be, and Engulfing Flames may not be meta anymore at all. I could be wrong on that last point. It's probably just very situational.

Question 3 stands in stark contrast to the other two. Are you so experienced that you know mechanics everywhere and you are, therefore, not blocking by default? Do you only block when you have to? I work the opposite way. I clamp down on block unless I know I don't have to. 1K stamina may not seem like much, but it is. 4K cost is a lot, but you frequently have nothing else to spend your magicka on. That said, you also get Major Mending and a decent shield, including for group members. That's nothing to be sneezed at.

Some fights are borderline. Talaria, the last boss in vDSR (Dreadsail Reef) is such a fight. Just standing there, blocking, can still get you killed. Even at 40K health, she may one shot you, especially if you are not quite at full health. There are various ways of dealing with that. One is dodge rolling the attack. Another is Magma Shell. Another is using the Hardened Ward and Igneous Shield shields while blocking. This isn't even hard mode I'm talking about. I can personally only imagine what hard mode is like. Aside from that fight, stacking Hardened Ward and Igneous Shield also gives you some security while letting go of block and restoring stamina with a heavy attack.

In regard to the sustain question, you want to invest in magicka regen as a tank. I think mine has something like 1.7K from the Atro Mundus, Red Frothgar and 1 jewelry enchant, without potion. Most tanks prefer food over Red Frothgar, as far as I'm aware, and 3x magicka recovery enchants. However my setup allows for using 1x block cost reduction and 1x skill cost reduction (Indeko) enchants. This is what I prefer along with all Hakeijo-enchanted gear, about 40K health and ~20K magicka and stamina, with stamina > magicka to ensure synergies restore stamina. In addition, if no one asks me to wear particular sets, I like fitting the Torc of Tonal Constancy into my build. When my stamina drops below 50%, because I'm blocking, the Torc ups my magicka regen by another significant amount.

A further way to manage your resources on DK is, of course, having ultigen from the likes of Drake's Rush and ultigen potions or a (possibly scribed) Minor Heroism skill. Drake's Rush is arguably a decent set for dungeons, since it gives ultimate to 3 other players as well. Bloodspawn, on the other hand, is arguably more of a PvP set. You don't typically get hammered with lots of (small) attacks in PvE, like you do in PvP. This leaves Bloodspawn with a smaller proc chance in the former environment.

Thanks for the insight, good stuff.

Thoughts from a lifelong DK tank main here. I tanked most DLC trifectas.

Don't bother with stagger in 4-man content. You need your stamina for other things.

Don't bother with engulfing flames in 4-man content.

Don't permablock. Learn when it's safe to heavy attack ("heavy after heavy" is a saying).

Igneous shield is good defense and stamina return.

Use mages guild Balance skill for basically unlimited magicka sustain. If you run with a healer, just standing in their healing springs or getting hit by their combat prayer nullifies any downside to using Balance.

My favorite sets for 4-man DLC runs is Magma Incarnate helm set (good stats, minor courage buff for group), Turning Tide (major vulnerability, decent uptime), Drake's Rush (5pc backbar only, major heroism for group), Void bash sword shield. Proc both TT and Drake's with a bash on your backbar. You can change these sets up a little based on what your group may need and/or what your healer uses.

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

I have my DK equipped with Tremorscale, Turning Tide, Crimson Oath, and voidbash (crimson oath backbar only). IMO, this is the best way to set up a tank because your DPS need a poultry ~ 2.5k penetration to maximize their damage against bosses.

I don't permablock with him either. He's an argonian, and I use potions to "cheese" his sustain, and so long as I time my heavy attacks just right, I can get by without having many/any orbs or shards tossed my way.

If I have some sustain issues or need additional support, I'll swap tremorscale for engine guardian or malubeth's scourge.

This is a fine setup too. My use of drake's is mainly that it helps provide more barriers during the hardmode/nodeath elements of trifectas.