I just figure there has to be some new stage 3 benefit because there will still be the stage 3 drawbacks. If anyone finds out or knows already please share thank you.

I'm really hopeful about this nerf: Vamp is only used in PvP these days and it's so overpowered that everyone is a vamp.
Sadly, reducing it to 10% but allowing it in stage 1 won't change this situation. If they kept it in stage 3 then players will have to weigh up the options but having it in stage 1 will still mean everyone in PvP will be a vamp since the cost is so low.

moderatelyfatman wrote: »

I'm really hopeful about this nerf: Vamp is only used in PvP these days and it's so overpowered that everyone is a vamp.
Sadly, reducing it to 10% but allowing it in stage 1 won't change this situation. If they kept it in stage 3 then players will have to weigh up the options but having it in stage 1 will still mean everyone in PvP will be a vamp since the cost is so low.

I honestly never used it and I rocked in PVP, granted I'm a DK, but I got hit way too hard by all the fire whips. Also it's not a full 30% reduction, full reduction was only reached at very low health. So I stopped using it and never looked back because of the penalities. This whole buff made fire DK a lot stronger since everyone used it.

You are right that it might be a standard upgrade now though. Lvl 1 penalities are pretty low. Sadly can't test it since I'm on xbox.

Can anyone on PC with access to PTS tell us what the stage 3 bonus is since undeath is moved to stage 1?

I can't tell if you're being a smartass or if you're serious. It's hard to believe that anyone would choose to be vamp3 if there are no benefits but if your resources and still affected and fire damage taken is still increased. I guess I'll install it myself and see. Even though I don't play on PC for years. It's rediculous that ZOS doesn't make this information readily available.

So there is no benefit at vamp stage 3 to replace moving undeath to stage 1 and nerfing it.

For stage 3 your health recovery reduction goes from 30% at stage 2 to 60%.
You take 5% more fire damage
Your regular abilities will cost 3% more

And the only plus (if what you said is correct) is that vampire abilties will cost 6% less vs. their stage 2 cost.

I occasionally run across a player using Eviscerate (or a morph) in PVP but maybe once a month. No other vampire skills are really used. And I'm talking PVP and PVE as far as I know. I think many players will still do vamp stage 1 for the 10% damage mitigation. Some will do stage 2 for the extra damage if they're the stealth/cloak types. I doubt there will be any stage 3 vamps at all unless a new benefit is introduced to replace undeath. And a few (mostly bow gankers) nightblades will do stage 4 so they can run around invisible mostly for role playing. These players rarely can do enough damage to kill anyone in this tanky meta. So there is almost no point to vampire after stage 2 and players who don't use stealth will all just stay at stage 1. The skills in the class are almost all worthless and barely used. Congratulations ZOS, you've successfully made vampire even more irrelevant than it already was! It went from mostly being used for stage 3 undeath in PVP to a lesser version of that. Some people won't even use undeath at all if the mitigation is only 10%. The 3 drawbacks might make undeath not worth it in their minds.

"do you know how overpowered unnatural movement is in PvP?"

I disagree with that statement actually and I'll explain why in a minute. But it's not really related to this post. This post is primarily about how nobody will have any reason to be stage 3 at all. I just mentioned stage 4 also because I see very few players using it, and those who do are ineffective at fighting/killing. Most players who use vamp after the change will be stage 1 for the 10% damage mitigation and some nightblades will use stage 2 for the extra damage from stealth. Almost nobody will use stage 3 or 4.

But back to stage 4, You will have no health recovery, you will take 20% extra fire damage, and your regular abilities will cost 12% more. With sustain being such an issue in PVP as it is in this tanky meta, I would never really consider going stage 4. Unless you just want to run around invisible for fun and barely do any damage or be able to engage in real fights, I don't see the point. With no health recovery and the extra fire damage you'll be easy to kill. And you won't be able to sustain either so you won't last long in a fight. You'll have to build more into recovery unless you just want to try and 2-shot a player and that will take away from building for more damage. Any good player right now has a lot of health and defense and nobody can 2-shot them. I literally never see any stage 4 vamp able to kill anyone but really bad PVE players who are in Cyrodiil for questing or to raise their Assault or Support skills. If your experience is different, cool.

I've been playing this game for about 8-years now and any time I see someone zipping by as a stage 4 vamp they rarely even engage in a fight unless it's a bow shot or 2 and then they're off running again because they're a bow ganker, have no sustain, and are super squishy. These players are mostly nightblades anyway and have cloak, so why do stage 4 when you can cloak at stage 1 and not have all the really severe drawbacks? I hope people do go stage 4, I'm going to be able to kill them easily by using fire, being able to build for more damage, and being able to out-sustain them. If they want to run around invisible I don't care. I'll be the one taking keeps, getting kills, and earning all the AP. They can run around in circles bragging that they didn't die while I rack up all the rewards.

ZOS will see that vampire past stage 2 is going to be barely used and hopefully they'll adjust things to make them better. The class skills need an overhaul and vampire 3 needs a real and strong benefit to counteract the big drawbacks.