Erickson9610 wrote: »

It would be strange if those skills didn't appear in their parent skill lines.

The other 6 Grimoires all require the use of a particular weapon, so they couldn't be used because the Companion can only use one weapon type at a time.

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

I hope we get more Companions that reuse player Races/Classes. I don't want anything for a Companion that players can't have — ideally, our Companions could be "recreated" on player characters.

That means "werewolf" or "vampire" Companions would still have a Class, i.e. they might be a "Dragonknight Werewolf Orc" or a "Necromancer Vampire Khajiit".

We should continue to get 2 Companions per year, and continue to get them even after we get a male and a female in every playable Race. There's a lot of stories that can be told, and their Keepsake bonuses could be worthwhile.

technically speaking, most of the existing companion skills are not what the players have, they are watered down or altered versions of existing skills, but not anything a player can use

honestly i feel that restricting the companions to only similar stuff thats analogous to players will eventually get really stale with only 7 classes (+ possibly vamp and ww) which is only 9 combinations

we are at 6 companions now with only 3 of those options not currently used

That's what I meant — every Companion skill is loosely based off of a corresponding Player skill. For example, Parallel, which grants 50 Ultimate, is based off of the Player skill Equilibrium, which spends Health to grant Magicka. The functionality is very different, but it's inspired by the Player version of the skill — only adapted to Companion combat (as Companions can't use Magicka).

I think Companion skills should always be inspired by some corresponding Player skill, but the functionality doesn't have to be (and admittedly shouldn't be) the exact same.


I don't see how the combat would get stale if Companions reused Player Classes. We would just have multiple Companions of the same Class to make builds for — and maybe one's Racial passives would be better suited for a particular build on one Companion Class than another's would be.


If ZOS has to stop making new Companion skills at some point, it's better they cover every remaining Player skill line (like the Necromancer Class skill lines, Psijic Order, Soul Magic, Assault, Support, Werewolf, Vampire, etcetera) and then all they need to do is decide which skill lines to grant future Companions. Obviously you can't make a whole Class out of individual skill lines (like Vampire or Werewolf) because there aren't enough skills to make the damage dealer/healer/tank skill lines, and Scribing Skills belong in their parent skill lines, so those can't be used to make a new Class, either.

A very simple solution is to stick to using one of the seven Classes and then add additional skill lines on top, where needed. Not every Companion would want to be able to become a Werewolf or Vampire, and not every Companion needs to be one — meaning those Companions who should have one of those curses could simply have an existing Class and then have the Vampire or Werewolf skill line also unlocked by default. Maybe one Companion was a member of the Psijic Order, or previously fought in the Alliance War, so they have those corresponding skill lines unlocked as well.

the thing is the companions have far less skills to choose from

i absolutely would not want a copy of bastian for example, his ultimate is mediocre and i didnt care for the versions of class skills he got for the most part

the companions have way less choice, even the racial bonuses on companions are borderline negligible

i would rather them have more unique options than keep repeating the classes over and over and over again, the companions personality and race are kind of extremely minor choices for me, if i had 2 companions that say were both DK, i would just take the one that was A) already geared up or B ) the one which had the more effective skills, there would be no reason to use both as they dont bring anything unique to the table

zos could easily make a vampire or ww "class" companion, purely by giving them extra skills we may not have access too, theres absolutely no reason they couldnt, we have no idea what their plans are for companions after they have covered at least one of each class

i personally would lose even more interest in companions if new companions were just further clones (as in skills) of the existing ones, im already frustrated enough with companions forcing to rerun their intro quests over and over

Every Companion is getting a unique Ultimate, as mentioned in the Companions Q&A. The next Dragonknight Companion's Ultimate will not be the same as Bastian's Ultimate.


The reason we will never get a "Class" out of Werewolf is because it uses different animations. Sure, ZOS could somehow make separate tanking/healing skills for a Companion Werewolf "Class", but if that's the case, then how would our Werewolf Companion be able to use other Companion skills, such as Weapon or Guild skills, when the werewolf armature uses a different set of animations than the humanoid armature does? And if the Werewolf doesn't transform to use the Werewolf "Class" abilities, then they won't be able to use any Companion version of existing Werewolf abilities which were copied over.

It is far simpler to make a Companion with a Class full of humanoid abilities (such as any existing Class) and then add the Werewolf skill line to the World category, allowing the player to slot the Transformation ability (which doesn't necessarily have to be an Ultimate) if the player wants said Werewolf Companion to switch to using Werewolf abilities or keep using humanoid abilities. That way, ZOS also doesn't need to come up with enough skills to fill the hypothetical tanking/healing skill lines.

• how effective they are with the skills
• how easy they are to unlock if we are forced to do this on every character

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

I hope we get more Companions that reuse player Races/Classes. I don't want anything for a Companion that players can't have — ideally, our Companions could be "recreated" on player characters.

That means "werewolf" or "vampire" Companions would still have a Class, i.e. they might be a "Dragonknight Werewolf Orc" or a "Necromancer Vampire Khajiit".

We should continue to get 2 Companions per year, and continue to get them even after we get a male and a female in every playable Race. There's a lot of stories that can be told, and their Keepsake bonuses could be worthwhile.

technically speaking, most of the existing companion skills are not what the players have, they are watered down or altered versions of existing skills, but not anything a player can use

honestly i feel that restricting the companions to only similar stuff thats analogous to players will eventually get really stale with only 7 classes (+ possibly vamp and ww) which is only 9 combinations

we are at 6 companions now with only 3 of those options not currently used

That's what I meant — every Companion skill is loosely based off of a corresponding Player skill. For example, Parallel, which grants 50 Ultimate, is based off of the Player skill Equilibrium, which spends Health to grant Magicka. The functionality is very different, but it's inspired by the Player version of the skill — only adapted to Companion combat (as Companions can't use Magicka).

I think Companion skills should always be inspired by some corresponding Player skill, but the functionality doesn't have to be (and admittedly shouldn't be) the exact same.


I don't see how the combat would get stale if Companions reused Player Classes. We would just have multiple Companions of the same Class to make builds for — and maybe one's Racial passives would be better suited for a particular build on one Companion Class than another's would be.


If ZOS has to stop making new Companion skills at some point, it's better they cover every remaining Player skill line (like the Necromancer Class skill lines, Psijic Order, Soul Magic, Assault, Support, Werewolf, Vampire, etcetera) and then all they need to do is decide which skill lines to grant future Companions. Obviously you can't make a whole Class out of individual skill lines (like Vampire or Werewolf) because there aren't enough skills to make the damage dealer/healer/tank skill lines, and Scribing Skills belong in their parent skill lines, so those can't be used to make a new Class, either.

A very simple solution is to stick to using one of the seven Classes and then add additional skill lines on top, where needed. Not every Companion would want to be able to become a Werewolf or Vampire, and not every Companion needs to be one — meaning those Companions who should have one of those curses could simply have an existing Class and then have the Vampire or Werewolf skill line also unlocked by default. Maybe one Companion was a member of the Psijic Order, or previously fought in the Alliance War, so they have those corresponding skill lines unlocked as well.

the thing is the companions have far less skills to choose from

i absolutely would not want a copy of bastian for example, his ultimate is mediocre and i didnt care for the versions of class skills he got for the most part

the companions have way less choice, even the racial bonuses on companions are borderline negligible

i would rather them have more unique options than keep repeating the classes over and over and over again, the companions personality and race are kind of extremely minor choices for me, if i had 2 companions that say were both DK, i would just take the one that was A) already geared up or B ) the one which had the more effective skills, there would be no reason to use both as they dont bring anything unique to the table

zos could easily make a vampire or ww "class" companion, purely by giving them extra skills we may not have access too, theres absolutely no reason they couldnt, we have no idea what their plans are for companions after they have covered at least one of each class

i personally would lose even more interest in companions if new companions were just further clones (as in skills) of the existing ones, im already frustrated enough with companions forcing to rerun their intro quests over and over

Every Companion is getting a unique Ultimate, as mentioned in the Companions Q&A. The next Dragonknight Companion's Ultimate will not be the same as Bastian's Ultimate.


The reason we will never get a "Class" out of Werewolf is because it uses different animations. Sure, ZOS could somehow make separate tanking/healing skills for a Companion Werewolf "Class", but if that's the case, then how would our Werewolf Companion be able to use other Companion skills, such as Weapon or Guild skills, when the werewolf armature uses a different set of animations than the humanoid armature does? And if the Werewolf doesn't transform to use the Werewolf "Class" abilities, then they won't be able to use any Companion version of existing Werewolf abilities which were copied over.

It is far simpler to make a Companion with a Class full of humanoid abilities (such as any existing Class) and then add the Werewolf skill line to the World category, allowing the player to slot the Transformation ability (which doesn't necessarily have to be an Ultimate) if the player wants said Werewolf Companion to switch to using Werewolf abilities or keep using humanoid abilities. That way, ZOS also doesn't need to come up with enough skills to fill the hypothetical tanking/healing skill lines.

ill say it again, if we just get clone companion classes, ill just take whichever one is either better skills or geared/unlocked on more characters

i dont like bastian, but i dont know if i would bother using another DK companion because of the horrible process needed to unlock them on each character

if the character is easier to unlock, and has better skills than bastian, ill definitely drop using him for sure

but thats the problem i see going forward with companions using the same class skill lines, the characters personality/backstory is meaningless to me

what really matters is:

• how effective they are with the skills
• how easy they are to unlock if we are forced to do this on every character

if for example we get another DK character, if the intro quest continues this trend of getting ridiculously long, i see no point to bother unlocking him on other characters even if he has better skills than bastian

if the new companion is easy/quick to unlock without a ton of nonsense steps or dialog, i would absolutely throw bastian away because the new one has better skills, to me theres no point in having 2 DK companions, if i wanted a DK theme im again gonna use whichever one is more effective in combat

i dont know how they would make a ww "class" companion work, but im sure they could if they wanted to, they are the ones making the game

they could also flag skills to say "unable to be used while transformed" if they give them a transform ultimate, they dont even have to transform to be WW, look at vykosa in moon hunter keep, shes a WW but never transforms and does bestial style slashes with her claws

i dont know what they would do, but if they wanted to add it, im sure they could do it

Erickson9610 wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

It would be strange if those skills didn't appear in their parent skill lines.

Not really. NPCs of the same class don't play exactly the same as the player character either. If anything it's the player character that's weird for needing classes so strictly. It's a necessary balance limitation for an MMO, but companions aren't used in competitive content so need not be as restricted with scribed skills

The other 6 Grimoires all require the use of a particular weapon, so they couldn't be used because the Companion can only use one weapon type at a time.

Could just have them use bound weapons for the skill.

I don't like the idea of never reusing Companion "Class" skills.

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

I hope we get more Companions that reuse player Races/Classes. I don't want anything for a Companion that players can't have — ideally, our Companions could be "recreated" on player characters.

That means "werewolf" or "vampire" Companions would still have a Class, i.e. they might be a "Dragonknight Werewolf Orc" or a "Necromancer Vampire Khajiit".

We should continue to get 2 Companions per year, and continue to get them even after we get a male and a female in every playable Race. There's a lot of stories that can be told, and their Keepsake bonuses could be worthwhile.

technically speaking, most of the existing companion skills are not what the players have, they are watered down or altered versions of existing skills, but not anything a player can use

honestly i feel that restricting the companions to only similar stuff thats analogous to players will eventually get really stale with only 7 classes (+ possibly vamp and ww) which is only 9 combinations

we are at 6 companions now with only 3 of those options not currently used

That's what I meant — every Companion skill is loosely based off of a corresponding Player skill. For example, Parallel, which grants 50 Ultimate, is based off of the Player skill Equilibrium, which spends Health to grant Magicka. The functionality is very different, but it's inspired by the Player version of the skill — only adapted to Companion combat (as Companions can't use Magicka).

I think Companion skills should always be inspired by some corresponding Player skill, but the functionality doesn't have to be (and admittedly shouldn't be) the exact same.


I don't see how the combat would get stale if Companions reused Player Classes. We would just have multiple Companions of the same Class to make builds for — and maybe one's Racial passives would be better suited for a particular build on one Companion Class than another's would be.


If ZOS has to stop making new Companion skills at some point, it's better they cover every remaining Player skill line (like the Necromancer Class skill lines, Psijic Order, Soul Magic, Assault, Support, Werewolf, Vampire, etcetera) and then all they need to do is decide which skill lines to grant future Companions. Obviously you can't make a whole Class out of individual skill lines (like Vampire or Werewolf) because there aren't enough skills to make the damage dealer/healer/tank skill lines, and Scribing Skills belong in their parent skill lines, so those can't be used to make a new Class, either.

A very simple solution is to stick to using one of the seven Classes and then add additional skill lines on top, where needed. Not every Companion would want to be able to become a Werewolf or Vampire, and not every Companion needs to be one — meaning those Companions who should have one of those curses could simply have an existing Class and then have the Vampire or Werewolf skill line also unlocked by default. Maybe one Companion was a member of the Psijic Order, or previously fought in the Alliance War, so they have those corresponding skill lines unlocked as well.

the thing is the companions have far less skills to choose from

i absolutely would not want a copy of bastian for example, his ultimate is mediocre and i didnt care for the versions of class skills he got for the most part

the companions have way less choice, even the racial bonuses on companions are borderline negligible

i would rather them have more unique options than keep repeating the classes over and over and over again, the companions personality and race are kind of extremely minor choices for me, if i had 2 companions that say were both DK, i would just take the one that was A) already geared up or B ) the one which had the more effective skills, there would be no reason to use both as they dont bring anything unique to the table

zos could easily make a vampire or ww "class" companion, purely by giving them extra skills we may not have access too, theres absolutely no reason they couldnt, we have no idea what their plans are for companions after they have covered at least one of each class

i personally would lose even more interest in companions if new companions were just further clones (as in skills) of the existing ones, im already frustrated enough with companions forcing to rerun their intro quests over and over

Every Companion is getting a unique Ultimate, as mentioned in the Companions Q&A. The next Dragonknight Companion's Ultimate will not be the same as Bastian's Ultimate.


The reason we will never get a "Class" out of Werewolf is because it uses different animations. Sure, ZOS could somehow make separate tanking/healing skills for a Companion Werewolf "Class", but if that's the case, then how would our Werewolf Companion be able to use other Companion skills, such as Weapon or Guild skills, when the werewolf armature uses a different set of animations than the humanoid armature does? And if the Werewolf doesn't transform to use the Werewolf "Class" abilities, then they won't be able to use any Companion version of existing Werewolf abilities which were copied over.

It is far simpler to make a Companion with a Class full of humanoid abilities (such as any existing Class) and then add the Werewolf skill line to the World category, allowing the player to slot the Transformation ability (which doesn't necessarily have to be an Ultimate) if the player wants said Werewolf Companion to switch to using Werewolf abilities or keep using humanoid abilities. That way, ZOS also doesn't need to come up with enough skills to fill the hypothetical tanking/healing skill lines.

ill say it again, if we just get clone companion classes, ill just take whichever one is either better skills or geared/unlocked on more characters

i dont like bastian, but i dont know if i would bother using another DK companion because of the horrible process needed to unlock them on each character

if the character is easier to unlock, and has better skills than bastian, ill definitely drop using him for sure

but thats the problem i see going forward with companions using the same class skill lines, the characters personality/backstory is meaningless to me

what really matters is:

• how effective they are with the skills
• how easy they are to unlock if we are forced to do this on every character

if for example we get another DK character, if the intro quest continues this trend of getting ridiculously long, i see no point to bother unlocking him on other characters even if he has better skills than bastian

if the new companion is easy/quick to unlock without a ton of nonsense steps or dialog, i would absolutely throw bastian away because the new one has better skills, to me theres no point in having 2 DK companions, if i wanted a DK theme im again gonna use whichever one is more effective in combat

i dont know how they would make a ww "class" companion work, but im sure they could if they wanted to, they are the ones making the game

they could also flag skills to say "unable to be used while transformed" if they give them a transform ultimate, they dont even have to transform to be WW, look at vykosa in moon hunter keep, shes a WW but never transforms and does bestial style slashes with her claws

i dont know what they would do, but if they wanted to add it, im sure they could do it

I really hope when we do get a werewolf Companion, they use similar abilities to those of players, transformation and all. If the Companion remains in humanoid form the entire time, then they couldn't use the Werewolf abilities at all (due to those skills using different animations than those that humanoid player characters use). Yes, ZOS could decide to make entirely new skills, but they should keep doing what they've been doing and stick to making Companion versions of Player skills.

I've theorized in another thread extensively about how a Werewolf Companion could be implemented while still keeping true to the Companion combat system. It's possible, but I'd expect a Vampire Companion (with an extra Vampire skill line in the World category, in addition to their Class skill lines) to be implemented first, due to their popularity and ease of implementation. Regardless, a Werewolf Companion could be implemented (as an additional Werewolf skill line in the World category, in addition to their Class skills) without replacing their Class skill lines or locking them out of their transformation.


In addition to the Class skills of each Companion, there's the Racial passive and the Ultimate. A second DK's Ultimate will be different from Bastian's, and if the second DK will have a different Race than Bastian, then the passive will change accordingly.

I understand concerns about the unlock time for Companions and how some people only use them for combat, and it's completely acceptable to stick with one particular Companion if they're good enough for your purposes. There is absolutely no need to keep unlocking new Companions on all of your characters, but some of us will keep unlocking the Companions to experience their questline and to unlock their Keepsake.

i never said i would never unlock new companions, but if they dont improve the ability to unlock them, ill only unlock them on 2 characters, my main for story + rapport and a DPS to powerlevel them to 20

im not sure exactly how they would implement a WW companion either, but i dont think all companions should always stick to analogous skills to players, just for example if a new DK companion only changed the ult from bastian, thats basically no difference at all and to me it makes no sense to have 2 companions doing the same thing

the companions racial bonuses are darn near negligible, its basically equivalent to a 1 gold level gear trait, i already barely care about the companion gear traits because it doesnt feel that impactful