We need a fourth destro staff for tanking.

moderatelyfatman · July 16

This is just a change to the game that hopefully small enough that it won't need major code rewrites the way a new weapon skill line would require.

Basically, I'd like the Ice Staff to be a proper destro in its own right and not one that has to be balanced for tanking or a niche item for warden dps. I want the Ice Staff to be an additional option for dps classes but slightly better for wardens the same way lighting staves are for sorcs or flame staffs for DKs.

You can then migrate all the defensive passives into a fourth type of staff. Lets call this purely defensive staff a Force Staff. The destro abilities of this staff are pure magic and are not specifically buffed by any class. It has all the defensive capabilities and passives currently held by the ice staff; the overall damage is lower than the other destro staves but the passives could contain certain buffs or debuffs that would help the tanks.

xylena_lazarow · July 16

They've got a nice logical setup available too. Fire for dots, Lightning for direct, Ice for crits, then Alteration or Force or whatever for magical tanking. Maybe an Illusion or Shadow staff too, and that DLC will sell like crazy.

emilyhyoyeon · July 16

Yeah we've needed this for forever.

There's plenty of defensive and utility types of magic in TES that later after the ESO timeline are divided into the magic schools that are seen in the single player games. One of my main TES characters who's a magic based tank uses mostly alteration spells in TES 3, 4, & 5.

Alteration staff, illusion staff, mysticism staff, etc are all types of magic that are perfect for a tanking staff. So much spell type potential as well. Just to brainstorm a few:

Burden spell (alteration) typically makes the target be able to carry less, leaving them encumbered; can be applied in ESO as a spell that slows or roots enemies for a duration -- perfect for ESO tanking.

Feather spell (alteration) typically makes the enemy be lighter and able to carry more; can be applied in ESO as a spell that buffs your own or allies' movespeeds or as a root/slow cleanser spell -- a good utility spell to help the group in a dungeon or trial, PVP too. It could even do something like provide a new buff that reduces fall damage taken a bit which could be pretty cool for Cyrodiil.

Telekinesis (alteration, mysticism) pulls or pushes something to/from the caster; can be applied in ESO as a spell that pulls one or multiple enemies -- great for ESO dungeon and trial tanking. It could also have a morph that pushes enemies away instead -- cool for PVP.

AcadianPaladin · July 16

Agree with OP - with the caveat that the tanking staff should be its own skill line, just as the resto staff is its own skill line. The benefit here is that new skill line could have passives purely for tanks and allow all destro passives to focus on dps.

Supreme_Atromancer · July 16

I honestly love the idea of expanding tanking beyond "big fella, hit like noodle". In a lot of ways, "tanking" by controlling your enemies with enchantment and illusion make more sense.

Strongly agree that Illusion, Enchantment and Alteration offer some fantastic potential that could be tapped for tanking and/or controller concepts. I think that new staff weapon skill lines could fill the niche.

I also love the idea of the classic Schools of Magic being reintroduced as skill lines (perhaps independent of weapons).

Schools of Magic could also offer the alternative to "magicka builds only have staves" thing people are exhausted of. So 2 birds, one stone...

reazea · July 16

The ice staff already helps with blocking, resource management and provides a group shield. That sounds like a pretty good tank staff to me as it is already.

Bradyfjord · July 16

A tank staff might also be useful for pvp magic builds to sustain with. I'm thinking destro on front bar and the new defense staff on the back bar

Pevey · July 16

I completely agree with this. It would be an amazing addition to the game. And let's face it, we are all RPG junkies and just dying to level up a new weapon skill line. Zero sarcasm there. I would love this. Ice staff is a destro staff and should have all mitigation removed and moved the new staff skill line.

ClowdyAllDay · July 16

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

They've got a nice logical setup available too. Fire for dots, Lightning for direct, Ice for crits, then Alteration or Force or whatever for magical tanking. Maybe an Illusion or Shadow staff too, and that DLC will sell like crazy.

I will buy that dlc

Erickson9610 · July 16

If a new weapon type is the selling point of a new Chapter, then how would the new weapon type be retroactively added to previous content (for set bonuses) without granting players access to the new weapon type if they don't own the new Chapter? Would they just not be able to equip the weapon, bind it to their account, or craft/trade for/buy/pick up the weapon?

Regardless of Chapter ownership, this new weapon type would increase the Transmute price of Reconstructing gear in older sets, due to there being a new weapon type for each item set that isn't yet collected.

BlueRaven · July 16

The fact that tanks use frost staves at all for tanking is a stupid design in my opinion.

tsaescishoeshiner · July 16

Or maybe they could allow staves to be equipped with a shield? And it would count it as One Handed and Shield with unique passives. Almost every Destruction Staff skill holds the staff in one hand, anyway.

It would make Puncture and Low Slash ranged abilities with new animations (along with other visual and mechanic changes, like making staves equipped this way count as 1 set piece instead of 2).

I like using a frost staff to tank, but it would be cool to use a frost staff to DPS on more classes. You can do it now, it's just not as good. No matter how much frost staff is buffed, optimized players will probably only use one or two staves anyway, whichever they are.

StarOfElyon · July 16

moderatelyfatman wrote: »

This is just a change to the game that hopefully small enough that it won't need major code rewrites the way a new weapon skill line would require.

Basically, I'd like the Ice Staff to be a proper destro in its own right and not one that has to be balanced for tanking or a niche item for warden dps. I want the Ice Staff to be an additional option for dps classes but slightly better for wardens the same way lighting staves are for sorcs or flame staffs for DKs.

You can then migrate all the defensive passives into a fourth type of staff. Lets call this purely defensive staff a Force Staff. The destro abilities of this staff are pure magic and are not specifically buffed by any class. It has all the defensive capabilities and passives currently held by the ice staff; the overall damage is lower than the other destro staves but the passives could contain certain buffs or debuffs that would help the tanks.

Alteration staff. That's what we needed instead of making ice staff for tanking.

moderatelyfatman · July 17

reazea wrote: »

The ice staff already helps with blocking, resource management and provides a group shield. That sounds like a pretty good tank staff to me as it is already.

The problem is that most people want an Ice staff to be a dps weapon in its own right. There Ice Magden is an example of an unusual but very popular playstyle that people can enjoy. You can then build a group of damage dealers around different status effects of each element.
But if they buff the damage to the level of a flame or lightning staff without removing the defensive buffs, then it becomes overpowered (especially in PvP). Hence the fourth option of a purely defensive staff.

Elyu · July 17

Have said something similar many times on the forums in the past:

Separate the destro staff skill lines into their own weapon skill lines + add a dedicated "magicka" tanking weapon skill line.

MEBengalsFan2001 · July 17

I would like to have five different staves.

Fire, Frost, Lightning, magic, and defensive. Frost would be updated to focus on damage. Magic would focus magic damage and status effective. The defensive is for tanks and its skills would provide group shields, resistance, and recovery.

SaffronCitrusflower · July 17

BlueRaven wrote: »

The fact that tanks use frost staves at all for tanking is a stupid design in my opinion.

I think every tank I know in game is running a frost staff on one bar and sword/shield on the other, so it might not be that bad of a design if every tank is choosing to use the ice staff on one of their bars. I think it helps a ton with resource management too.