Undeath way too strong for Stage 1 penalties

SkaraMinoc · July 8

Everyone will be a Vampire now if they weren't already.

100% health = 1% mitigation

1% health = 10% mitigation

The penalties are not enough.

Wuuffyy · July 8

Better than 30% mitigation.

Don't forget they are still receiving 10% more damage from ALL Fighter's Guild abilities (including the very widely used, burst-ult: Dawnbreaker).

TX12001rwb17_ESO · July 8

When you get to 10% you will be almost dead.

Wuuffyy · July 8

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

When you get to 10% you will be almost dead.

Yay!!! I'm so happy for this!

Better than executes hitting for only spammable damage at low health (instead of execute level damage... like an execute)

SkaraMinoc · July 8

Sure 30% -> 10% is a major change. This thread is about the opportunity cost on Stage 1 versus the new Undeath. When you need Undeath the most (under 50% health), you still get 6% to 10% mitigation for negligible cost.

silky_soft · July 8

Just make all % mitigation to % armor value. Simples.

SkaraMinoc · July 8

Undeath should be Stage 2 I think, then it would be balanced.

LittlePinkDot · July 9

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

Everyone will be a Vampire now if they weren't already.

100% health = 1% mitigation

1% health = 10% mitigation

The penalties are not enough.

The 10% mitigation isn't worth ruining your characters looks.

For those that like specific looks/roleplaying, vampire is terrible

Jsmalls · July 9

Yeah stage 2 for "Undeath" and stage 3 for "Strike from the Shadows".

This makes the most sense. Currently not having a benefit to being stage 3 needs to change.

master_vanargand · July 9

No, Undeath should be stage 3.
Undeath was stage 3 so we're just going back. That's it.

silky_soft · July 9

Why not ramp all the passives per vamp level?

TX12001rwb17_ESO · July 9

The thing is now Undeath is ridiculously weak, you won't even beable to use the full 10% resistance because to reach 10% resistance you need be at 1% health, at that level of health someone punching you without a weapon would be fatal, understandable that they made it a permanent ability regardless of stage and lorewise it would make sense as a Vampire is always undead so why would their undead resistances only kick in at stage 3 but as it is now, if it were exclusive to stage 3 it would be useless because at that point it will not be enough to offset the additional damage taken from Fire and Fighter's Guild abilities.

I think this is another case of ZOS over-nerfing it and not thinking it through, the result has made it so higher stages are pointless for combat and since the weaknesses at stage 1 are negligible many players will only become Vampires just for the undeath passive even as weak as it is with no intent of using any Vampire skills.

We also need something for Stage 3 as well to fix this gaping hole, something like the old Supernatural Recovery Passive could take it's place or an effect that heals you for 5% of all damage you inflict.

SkaraMinoc · July 9

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

The thing is now Undeath is ridiculously weak, you won't even beable to use the full 10% resistance because to reach 10% resistance you need be at 1% health

It's not really that weak. Here's a general comparison. (might be off by 1%)

At 50-60% health remaining, Undeath gives 5% mitigation which is the same as Minor Protection, Nibenay Bay Battlereeve, etc.

At 40-50% health remaining, Undeath gives 6% mitigation which is the same as a Defensive Blue CP except it applies to all damage and not just Single Target, Direct, DoT, or AoE.

At 20-30% health remaining, Undeath gives 8% mitigation which is very good.

Many sources of mitigation exist and even 5% mitigation is good because all of the sources result in a very large total mitigation value.

ValueDrift · July 9

Moving the primary reason to be a vampire from stage 3 to 1 is a huge nerf to stages 3 & 4. Stage 3 now has no purpose, and Stage 4 while situationally fun, is probably not worth the massive downsides it comes with. The penalties for high stages should be reduced to reflect the fact that the power was removed.

Udrath · July 9

FINALLY! I am really glad about this change and how big of a impact this is going to be in PVP!

I believe it should remain stage 3 or a least to stage 2 though because it is a free passive that requires no input to activate, besides keeping track of your vampire stage. Either way I am happy.

davelbier · July 9

I read it as helping NBs - they can also have the mitigation without the sustain hit, and their close-call-ganks now turn into kills. And since their skills moved around into magicka-errywhere getting another sustain improvement by not needing vamp 3 themselves it sounds like a max mag NB....might be a possibility? i dont play NB much so im not sure if thats worth considering.

also a lot of things that de-cloaked the NB are getting 'fixed' smh

pklemming · July 9

This will make a minimal difference and certainly won't make up for the mitigation loss from changing to multiplicative calculations for mitigation. It looks good, but the real world numbers won't bear out the tooltip because zos uses integers at every stage of the calculation and rounds EVERY NUMBER UP... Yes, of course 13.01 should be counted as 14...

Where on earth did they go to learn maths? If they wish to change mitigation to purely multiplicative, then the rounding should at least be done at the end, and should be working to a minimum of 2 decimal places during the calculation.

We would still lose out due to the stupid way they are rounding every number up, but it would at least make some skills useful, rather than giving a trueworld value of 0% increase. People are doubtless still slotting these unaware that they have zero affect to the amount of incoming damage they take.

Remathilis · July 9

Yeah, this is what I was afraid would happen. Undeath is nerfed, pvp is saved, but half the people feel it didn't go far enough and the others feel it went too far. So now we're going to keep arguing and needling because vampires aren't totally useless until ZoS utterly decimates it

Make vampire a skin and werewolf a polymorph and be done with it already.

master_vanargand · July 9

pklemming wrote: »

This will make a minimal difference and certainly won't make up for the mitigation loss from changing to multiplicative calculations for mitigation. It looks good, but the real world numbers won't bear out the tooltip because zos uses integers at every stage of the calculation and rounds EVERY NUMBER UP... Yes, of course 13.01 should be counted as 14...

Where on earth did they go to learn maths? If they wish to change mitigation to purely multiplicative, then the rounding should at least be done at the end, and should be working to a minimum of 2 decimal places during the calculation.

We would still lose out due to the stupid way they are rounding every number up, but it would at least make some skills useful, rather than giving a trueworld value of 0% increase. People are doubtless still slotting these unaware that they have zero affect to the amount of incoming damage they take.

Floating point calculations use more server resources than you might think.
Integer calculations are very fast, so game programmers have long used techniques that only use integers.