Warden Class Mastery Signature script

ESO_Nightingale · April 21

Hey everyone, a short post here, but i just wanted to bring up the Warden Class Mastery script

i have major concerns with this mastery script as it honestly feels really out of place, and something that would feel incredibly unfun to play against in pvp environments.

this script is frankly useless to a majority of warden builds outside of dungeon tanking or being annoying in pvp. i would have thought that a warden class mastery effect would have to do with frost damage and chilled/bleed application and/or healing/buffing allies. not charming or, if not, restoring an tiny amount of resources. i really hope to see this script changed away from being toxic to play against in pvp.

Foxtrot39 · April 21

On another note it kinda looks like an alt version of that High isle mythic

Nerouyn · April 21

Speaking as someone who loves the idea of wardens but now how they currently play, rather than someone who doesn't want warden opponents to have this in PvP, I don't mind it.

Not crazy in love with it but it's ok.

Wardens two non-ice lines are illusion magic, so that's where charm fits in.

FYI they're planning to move damage more into the Beast line rather than ice. There was a small developer note about it in these patch notes under the change to Blue Betty.

Foxtrot39 · April 21

Nerouyn wrote: »

Speaking as someone who loves the idea of wardens but now how they currently play, rather than someone who doesn't want warden opponents to have this in PvP, I don't mind it.

Not crazy in love with it but it's ok.

Wardens two non-ice lines are illusion magic, so that's where charm fits in.

FYI they're planning to move damage more into the Beast line rather than ice. There was a small developer note about it in these patch notes under the change to Blue Betty.

Not really illusion, more like a sort alteration magic specific to wood elf culture (more in line with altering reality itself to create their animal companions)

ESO_Nightingale · April 21

Nerouyn wrote: »

Speaking as someone who loves the idea of wardens but now how they currently play, rather than someone who doesn't want warden opponents to have this in PvP, I don't mind it.

Not crazy in love with it but it's ok.

Wardens two non-ice lines are illusion magic, so that's where charm fits in.

FYI they're planning to move damage more into the Beast line rather than ice. There was a small developer note about it in these patch notes under the change to Blue Betty.

The developer comment has nothing to do with the design of the class mastery. Charm has never been a part of warden which is really strange to me. So adding it now feels out of place. The only part that makes sense is the snare and aoe ground effect portion as those are things wardens do.

Nerouyn · April 21

Foxtrot39 wrote: »

Not really illusion, more like a sort alteration magic specific to wood elf culture (more in line with altering reality itself to create their animal companions)

You're right!

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Wardens

Another difference is that Wardens draw upon the environment to shape reality, and cast powerful spells utilizing conjuration or alteration magic, while Spinners specialize in entrancing their audience in stories via illusions.

Sorry, they really look illusion'y.

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

The developer comment has nothing to do with the design of the class mastery.

Yes, it does.

You said, bold added by me:

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

i would have thought that a warden class mastery effect would have to do with frost damage and chilled/bleed application and/or healing/buffing allies.

Having quietly announced in those patch notes that they're probably moving damage out of the ice line, no we wouldn't expect their class mastery to be frost damage. If frost anything it would be frost tanky.

But that's super role specific so probably not a great candidate for a class mastery script.

ESO_Nightingale · April 21

Nerouyn wrote: »

Foxtrot39 wrote: »

Not really illusion, more like a sort alteration magic specific to wood elf culture (more in line with altering reality itself to create their animal companions)

You're right!

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Wardens

Another difference is that Wardens draw upon the environment to shape reality, and cast powerful spells utilizing conjuration or alteration magic, while Spinners specialize in entrancing their audience in stories via illusions.

Sorry, they really look illusion'y.

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

The developer comment has nothing to do with the design of the class mastery.

Yes, it does.

You said, bold added by me:

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

i would have thought that a warden class mastery effect would have to do with frost damage and chilled/bleed application and/or healing/buffing allies.

Having quietly announced in those patch notes that they're probably moving damage out of the ice line, no we wouldn't expect their class mastery to be frost damage. If frost anything it would be frost tanky.

But that's super role specific so probably not a great candidate for a class mastery script.

Chilled is beneficial for all 3 roles. Damage from it for dps specifically and debuffs for support and tanks though everyone benefits from all aspects of it. Zos's idea of moving damage out of winter's embrace is something actively being pushed back against right now. Most of us don't want to do a 180 when we worked so hard to get it to this point in the first place.

NyassaV · April 21

This looks horrible.

ESO_Nightingale · April 21

NyassaV wrote: »

This looks horrible.

Yeah I'm not a fan at all. Its far too niche for every type of content and looks toxic in pvp. It has nearly nothing to do with wardens class identity

Skullstachio · April 23

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Hey everyone, a short post here, but i just wanted to bring up the Warden Class Mastery script

i have major concerns with this mastery script as it honestly feels really out of place, and something that would feel incredibly unfun to play against in pvp environments.

this script is frankly useless to a majority of warden builds outside of dungeon tanking or being annoying in pvp. i would have thought that a warden class mastery effect would have to do with frost damage and chilled/bleed application and/or healing/buffing allies. not charming or, if not, restoring an tiny amount of resources. i really hope to see this script changed away from being toxic to play against in pvp.

Weirdly enough, I reckon the charm and resource restore should have been a part of the wardens base toolkit specifically tied to the frozen gate ability, something along the lines of:

Summon an ancient portal, which arms after 1.5 seconds and lasts for 15 seconds. When triggered the "initial enemy" is teleported to you, immobilized for 3 seconds, and dealt X Frost Damage while up to 5 enemies remaining in the portal after activation are charmed for 3 seconds*, if no enemies are charmed, restore 50% of the abilities cost as Magicka.
You can have up to 3 Frozen Gates active at a time.
Enemies charmed this way become CC immune and cannot be charmed again for the duration.

Not only would it have been good for drawing enemies in to melee range for melee taunts like 1H&S puncture but would have made for a decent tanking tool while also having the necessary limitations. It's just how I see one of the many potentials but may not really be necessary.

ZoeliTintanie · April 23

I'd love to see Druids be more thematic here in ESO, charm would work if it had any presence at all in its current toolkit.
And if it will later, I imagine it with those blossoms and lots of pinks and spring hues

Side Note. Where are the rest of the "seasons" in the druids kit? the Infinite Archive armor set talks about "Seasons"
but the skill-set has only Winter and Spring (in green balance)
Where is Summer/Fall because
Winter Destroys lots of nature, forcing it into hibernation or slowing it down etc, defense and fields, lots of aoe, etc
Fall could be the debuff skill styles with Wind too, aoe hurricanes, breezes that dispell something, gusts of wind and stuff that stun or root things
Summer is all hot and fiery, water and beaches, so much greenery etc, the Buff and Fire/water skills would make sense here
and Spring for all the healing and regrowth, charms and wonders, bees and birbs, and all that lush life

So...
if we're putting Charm on a Warden....

Also side note, can Warden passives be looked at? Comparing them to any other class in the game, the passives really seem like they were rushed and meant to come back to but those team members left and no one left a note to the new guy.

ESO_Nightingale · April 23

ZoeliTintanie wrote: »

I'd love to see Druids be more thematic here in ESO, charm would work if it had any presence at all in its current toolkit.
And if it will later, I imagine it with those blossoms and lots of pinks and spring hues

Side Note. Where are the rest of the "seasons" in the druids kit? the Infinite Archive armor set talks about "Seasons"
but the skill-set has only Winter and Spring (in green balance)
Where is Summer/Fall because
Winter Destroys lots of nature, forcing it into hibernation or slowing it down etc, defense and fields, lots of aoe, etc
Fall could be the debuff skill styles with Wind too, aoe hurricanes, breezes that dispell something, gusts of wind and stuff that stun or root things
Summer is all hot and fiery, water and beaches, so much greenery etc, the Buff and Fire/water skills would make sense here
and Spring for all the healing and regrowth, charms and wonders, bees and birbs, and all that lush life

So...
if we're putting Charm on a Warden....

Also side note, can Warden passives be looked at? Comparing them to any other class in the game, the passives really seem like they were rushed and meant to come back to but those team members left and no one left a note to the new guy.

forgive me if i'm not totally understanding your meaning, but Druids are not Wardens in the lore, i actually asked this question on one of the lore question and answer posts. i asked if there was any relation between druids and wardens and the answer i got was that they're not directly related but that they are basically both about nature and defending it.

ZoeliTintanie · April 23

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

ZoeliTintanie wrote: »

I'd love to see Druids be more thematic here in ESO, charm would work if it had any presence at all in its current toolkit.
And if it will later, I imagine it with those blossoms and lots of pinks and spring hues

Side Note. Where are the rest of the "seasons" in the druids kit? the Infinite Archive armor set talks about "Seasons"
but the skill-set has only Winter and Spring (in green balance)
Where is Summer/Fall because
Winter Destroys lots of nature, forcing it into hibernation or slowing it down etc, defense and fields, lots of aoe, etc
Fall could be the debuff skill styles with Wind too, aoe hurricanes, breezes that dispell something, gusts of wind and stuff that stun or root things
Summer is all hot and fiery, water and beaches, so much greenery etc, the Buff and Fire/water skills would make sense here
and Spring for all the healing and regrowth, charms and wonders, bees and birbs, and all that lush life

So...
if we're putting Charm on a Warden....

Also side note, can Warden passives be looked at? Comparing them to any other class in the game, the passives really seem like they were rushed and meant to come back to but those team members left and no one left a note to the new guy.

forgive me if i'm not totally understanding your meaning, but Druids are not Wardens in the lore, i actually asked this question on one of the lore question and answer posts. i asked if there was any relation between druids and wardens and the answer i got was that they're not directly related but that they are basically both about nature and defending it.

Interesting to know, basically its like calling Arcanist a Runekeeper (from lord of the rings online), name thing aside though.
The point I was attempting to make, is/was to incorporate more "Seasons" into their kit, not just Winter & Spring

ESO_Nightingale · April 24

ZoeliTintanie wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

ZoeliTintanie wrote: »

I'd love to see Druids be more thematic here in ESO, charm would work if it had any presence at all in its current toolkit.
And if it will later, I imagine it with those blossoms and lots of pinks and spring hues

Side Note. Where are the rest of the "seasons" in the druids kit? the Infinite Archive armor set talks about "Seasons"
but the skill-set has only Winter and Spring (in green balance)
Where is Summer/Fall because
Winter Destroys lots of nature, forcing it into hibernation or slowing it down etc, defense and fields, lots of aoe, etc
Fall could be the debuff skill styles with Wind too, aoe hurricanes, breezes that dispell something, gusts of wind and stuff that stun or root things
Summer is all hot and fiery, water and beaches, so much greenery etc, the Buff and Fire/water skills would make sense here
and Spring for all the healing and regrowth, charms and wonders, bees and birbs, and all that lush life

So...
if we're putting Charm on a Warden....

Also side note, can Warden passives be looked at? Comparing them to any other class in the game, the passives really seem like they were rushed and meant to come back to but those team members left and no one left a note to the new guy.

forgive me if i'm not totally understanding your meaning, but Druids are not Wardens in the lore, i actually asked this question on one of the lore question and answer posts. i asked if there was any relation between druids and wardens and the answer i got was that they're not directly related but that they are basically both about nature and defending it.

Interesting to know, basically its like calling Arcanist a Runekeeper (from lord of the rings online), name thing aside though.
The point I was attempting to make, is/was to incorporate more "Seasons" into their kit, not just Winter & Spring

i mostly just like the winter part lol

ZoeliTintanie · April 25

Me too, I love those crystals, winters effect on the ground, the snowflake sparkle things that float around, especially combined with Wall of Elements + Festerflies Swarm (growing), it looks like a fantasy scene in certain areas of the world when you cast those skills together + the environment and lighting.

I found this and posted it in another thread, it might be nice to use somewhere, its a warden npc casting a snow-hurricane that leaves a trail of ice behind it and explodes in aoe damage (atleast it looks like it does) its in Eyevea

CordingOnyx · April 25

ZoeliTintanie wrote: »

Winter Destroys lots of nature, forcing it into hibernation or slowing it down etc, defense and fields, lots of aoe, etc
Fall could be the debuff skill styles with Wind too, aoe hurricanes, breezes that dispell something, gusts of wind and stuff that stun or root things
Summer is all hot and fiery, water and beaches, so much greenery etc, the Buff and Fire/water skills would make sense here
and Spring for all the healing and regrowth, charms and wonders, bees and birbs, and all that lush life

hey so i liked the idea of that and scrapped something together. it's not like its going to be meta or anything but it definitely works. hits about 50k on a dummy with me just flailing about and no real rotation.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=622068

not sure why the notes arent showing up but here;s the notes separately :

1 - shocking soul - shock dmg/ oblivion dmg/ major int_end
2 - firey contingency - fire dmg/ fire DOT/ minor vuln
5 - firey explosion - fire damage/ assassin's misery/ minor brittle

empty body set - "medium highland sentinel_4pcs"

alt sets ( cinders of anthilmir ) ( burning spellweave ) ( flame blossom ) ( silks of the sun ) ( domihaus )

ZoeliTintanie · April 25

CordingOnyx wrote: »

ZoeliTintanie wrote: »

Winter Destroys lots of nature, forcing it into hibernation or slowing it down etc, defense and fields, lots of aoe, etc
Fall could be the debuff skill styles with Wind too, aoe hurricanes, breezes that dispell something, gusts of wind and stuff that stun or root things
Summer is all hot and fiery, water and beaches, so much greenery etc, the Buff and Fire/water skills would make sense here
and Spring for all the healing and regrowth, charms and wonders, bees and birbs, and all that lush life

hey so i liked the idea of that and scrapped something together. it's not like its going to be meta or anything but it definitely works. hits about 50k on a dummy with me just flailing about and no real rotation.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=622068

not sure why the notes arent showing up but here;s the notes separately :

1 - shocking soul - shock dmg/ oblivion dmg/ major int_end
2 - firey contingency - fire dmg/ fire DOT/ minor vuln
5 - firey explosion - fire damage/ assassin's misery/ minor brittle
empty body set - "medium highland sentinel_4pcs"

alt sets ( cinders of anthilmir ) ( burning spellweave ) ( flame blossom ) ( silks of the sun ) ( domihaus )

I can't awesome, that enough.

I've been using Unfathomable Darkness set (has a bunch of crows) with Gothnar? Helm/Shoulders for that fire ring and telvanni efficiency with Ember (for the lightning with short cooldowns), lightning staff and fire staff (backbar, i dont have oakensoul)
I'm going to try to get those sets you have up on that build, that cindermoth sounds perfect to mix with Unfathomable Darkness (the crows are kinda like Fall Seasonish enough until I get the others)

thank you for putting that together

CordingOnyx · April 25

ZoeliTintanie wrote: »

I can't awesome, that enough.
I've been using Unfathomable Darkness set (has a bunch of crows) with Gothnar? Helm/Shoulders for that fire ring and telvanni efficiency with Ember (for the lightning with short cooldowns), lightning staff and fire staff (backbar, i dont have oakensoul)
I'm going to try to get those sets you have up on that build, that cindermoth sounds perfect to mix with Unfathomable Darkness (the crows are kinda like Fall Seasonish enough until I get the others)

thank you for putting that together

It's no trouble!!! This is one of the reasons I'm most excited about scribing, the sheer amount of builds that aren't "meta" but can still be usable AND be themed!

acastanza_ESO · July 6

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Hey everyone, a short post here, but i just wanted to bring up the Warden Class Mastery script

i have major concerns with this mastery script as it honestly feels really out of place, and something that would feel incredibly unfun to play against in pvp environments.

this script is frankly useless to a majority of warden builds outside of dungeon tanking or being annoying in pvp. i would have thought that a warden class mastery effect would have to do with frost damage and chilled/bleed application and/or healing/buffing allies. not charming or, if not, restoring an tiny amount of resources. i really hope to see this script changed away from being toxic to play against in pvp.

So turns out this is incredibly strong for ballgroups in PVP because they can time it to go off right after the now delayed rush pull to get all the people that managed to block it.... it also seems to be behaving badly, not showing the enemy aoe telegraph, and doing a multiple back-and-forth pull that is unbreakable. I can't believe this incredibly toxic skill addition was so overlooked.

kyle.wilson · July 6

Foxtrot39 wrote: »

On another note it kinda looks like an alt version of that High isle mythic

this new warden script is quite usefull in pvp. I know understand what was going on tonight. I was finding my skills not firing and assumed it was lag fighting a ballgroup.
I wasnt sure what charmed meant until I saw this, It never clicked that this was a named thing.

ESO_Nightingale · July 6

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Hey everyone, a short post here, but i just wanted to bring up the Warden Class Mastery script

i have major concerns with this mastery script as it honestly feels really out of place, and something that would feel incredibly unfun to play against in pvp environments.

this script is frankly useless to a majority of warden builds outside of dungeon tanking or being annoying in pvp. i would have thought that a warden class mastery effect would have to do with frost damage and chilled/bleed application and/or healing/buffing allies. not charming or, if not, restoring an tiny amount of resources. i really hope to see this script changed away from being toxic to play against in pvp.

So turns out this is incredibly strong for ballgroups in PVP because they can time it to go off right after the now delayed rush pull to get all the people that managed to block it.... it also seems to be behaving badly, not showing the enemy aoe telegraph, and doing a multiple back-and-forth pull that is unbreakable. I can't believe this incredibly toxic skill addition was so overlooked.

indeed. its pretty bad for the game in general, i would have thought they'd have designed the class scripts around the class, and not adding random stuff like this.

acastanza_ESO · July 6

kyle.wilson wrote: »

Foxtrot39 wrote: »

On another note it kinda looks like an alt version of that High isle mythic

this new warden script is quite usefull in pvp. I know understand what was going on tonight. I was finding my skills not firing and assumed it was lag fighting a ballgroup.
I wasnt sure what charmed meant until I saw this, It never clicked that this was a named thing.

I've submitted a PR to add the pre-charm AOE to LUI's CC tracker and am considering adding an alert for it to PvpAlerts. This is just so abusive extreme measures to counter it are warranted.

Lalothen · July 8

This is just Rune of Uncanny Adoration on steroids really - and that skill's charm has been a glitchy mess in PvP since Necrom.