Why is the world becoming more and more empty?

twev · June 17

Pelanora wrote: »

Would we take a zone and chapter every two years, if it meant it was really big, populated, and very explorable?

Dozens of Bosmer's vote: Yes.
And a few dozen 'jiit's and a Nord, do, too.

Syldras · June 17

Pelanora wrote: »

Would we take a zone and chapter every two years, if it meant it was really big, populated, and very explorable?

Considering we already lost the Q4 story dlc with a "we'd rather concentrate on quality than quantity" explanation (among other statements), I'd be suspicious whether there'd really be an improvement and not just another content reduction.

Pelanora · June 17

Syldras wrote: »

Pelanora wrote: »

Would we take a zone and chapter every two years, if it meant it was really big, populated, and very explorable?

Considering we already lost the Q4 story dlc with a "we'd rather concentrate on quality than quantity" explanation (among other statements), I'd be suspicious whether there'd really be an improvement and not just another content reduction.

Yea it's hard to believe it wouldn't be a slow fade to similar levels.

I'm just thinking really big releases seem to take longer than a year, these days, and we seem to be saying, we want really big releases.

Not sure the year between would be very good for game numbers....

Vulkunne · June 17

Valinn wrote: »

Hey, everybody. This is just a little reflection on something that is becoming harder and harder to ignore.
We just recently got this beautiful new location full of colorful trees, lovely countryside and wonderful buildings. It really is a treat for the eyes and I found myself roaming the wilderness just to admire it. But one thing can't be unseen - the world is beautiful, but soulless. It's empty, even though it's full of stuff.
The buildings are closed, you can't get into any of the beautiful buildings to observe basic NPC chores or do some solo/group roleplay in it. It's purely purposeful, complete a quest, get a reward and never come back. Even the buildings that are accessible while doing the quest are usually locked after completing it. The city itself offers only a few buildings that we can actually enter and maybe steal something inside (it's part of the overall impression), while a large number of doors remain locked. Even some of the merchants have relocated outside so that another interior doesn't have to be created.
I know that there probably aren't that many players who do this, who actually wander around the location and play around, but we're here and we miss that part of the freedom that ESO used to offer us.
So please, I know it's probably a lot of work to add to an already overloaded to-do list, but give us back at least some of that.

I'm going to answer your question by posing a different question, if the world seems empty and clearly the game still has a large following, rather than ask why places are empty, maybe we should ask instead why some places aren't.

FelisCatus · June 17

Pelanora wrote: »

Limiting the burden on the engine.

Can't go on like this for much longer....

If they drop console support this game will be capable of so much more.

spartaxoxo · June 18

FelisCatus wrote: »

Pelanora wrote: »

Limiting the burden on the engine.

Can't go on like this for much longer....

If they drop console support this game will be capable of so much more.

No. It wouldn't. You're not getting more out of losing 2/3rds of the players and presumably a similar level of budget as well.

Old consoles? Perhaps. All consoles? Not a chance.

Rkindaleft · June 18

FelisCatus wrote: »

Pelanora wrote: »

Limiting the burden on the engine.

Can't go on like this for much longer....

If they drop console support this game will be capable of so much more.

Realistically they should drop support for the PS4/Xbox One versions of the game soon but not the new gen console versions. A PS5 or Series X still have way better performance than some of the old potato computers people are still playing this game on.

Pelanora · June 18

The graphics in base zones and the physics and even the latest zone don't deserve top quality hardware. Can't even do wings on a zone story lead. Or feathers on a griffin luminary.

Ferrym4n · June 18

Destai · June 18

First few minutes in and it’s really obvious how many locked doors there are. Just feels like nearly every building in Skingrad is locked outside of like 4 or 5 buildings. Shame, the assets are so beautiful.

twev · June 18

Ferrym4n wrote: »

The phrase you're looking for is: "Potemkin Village".

Nestor · June 19

ZOS needs to compare every new zone to Wrothgar. If it does not compare for overall content, including "fluff" like building interiors with NPCs that seem like they are living a life, then the new zone is not ready for release.

zaria · June 19

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

Pelanora wrote: »

I wish they could get off the bethesda everything- is-a- room style of design.

Loading screens galore, nothing just flowing. Really annoying.

Hero Engine needs a way to stitch scenes so zone designers can build seamless worlds without loading screens. Tamriel should be one giant scene with multiple sub-scenes stitched together that load in and out seamlessly.

First ESO don't use the hero engine, it was used for the first prototypes only.

As I understand most interiors are underground and not instanced, then you pass an door to an house you are teleported to the interior. Guess this is primary for client performance as nothing outside has to be rendered, but it also makes the interior don't have to exactly match the exterior who is useful as you can design them independently including quest updates inside buildings and if interior changes because of quest you simply use another version of interior.

It should be no load time exiting an normal house, delves quest instances and player house has an load time.

vsrs_au · June 19

In my darker moments, I can't help thinking that the entire game is turning into one big facade.

Pelanora · June 19

vsrs_au wrote: »

In my darker moments, I can't help thinking that the entire game is turning into one big facade.

Ludo ergo sum

opethmaniac · June 19

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

Pelanora wrote: »

I wish they could get off the bethesda everything- is-a- room style of design.

Loading screens galore, nothing just flowing. Really annoying.

Hero Engine needs a way to stitch scenes so zone designers can build seamless worlds without loading screens. Tamriel should be one giant scene with multiple sub-scenes stitched together that load in and out seamlessly.

ZOS used Hero Engine only very early in den beginning of ESO-development (prototyping...) Afterwards there built an own engine from ground up.

Pelanora · June 19

And they've got even another whole new engine for their 'new project'.

Which I think will be eso renewed, myself.

Valinn · June 19

Anifaas wrote: »

Less content and more grind. That seems to be the theme with this chapter.

Yes, that's another factor. I focused on the visuals of the DLC and the overall feeling it gives - beautiful but empty. But since I've been going through the story (I'm slow, I want to go through it properly, read everything and such), I'm noticing this trend as well - it tells you a story (and it's a pretty good story, I like it so far), but you feel like you're not really involved in it at all. There are no longer any options in the dialogue where you can choose something, and worse, every time there's a problem, or a mystery, or just anything that requires a second guess, all the options and dialogue suggest that you're a totally stupid person who can't get 2+2 right and they has to explain it to you like to a 3 year old. And they make a fuss about it. But they call you a hero and a proxy and god's chosen.
But besides that, there's the same farming mechanism that's been there for the last few DLCs, just in a new coat. And it's a pretty coat, nicely painted and graphically correct, but is it all really necessary when the core gameplay isn't there anymore? Maybe it's just my feeling, but I'll happily sacrifice the whole beautiful facade and cluttered mansion just to have a more alive world (who needs houses like for a giant anyway, we can squeeze another floor into any room around).

vsrs_au · June 19

Pelanora wrote: »

vsrs_au wrote: »

In my darker moments, I can't help thinking that the entire game is turning into one big facade.

Ludo ergo sum

I don't understand what you mean by that reply. Yes, I understand the Latin, but how is it relevant to my post?

emilyhyoyeon · June 19

Elsonso wrote: »

Pelanora wrote: »

I don't think there's another zone where you can't actually get into the zone castle, is there?

I am sad that they decided to make the Skingrad castle off limits rather than an explorable area. I was hoping that it would unlock during the zone main quest, but ... nope.

the Skingrad castle is one of my favorite places in TES IV. I remember the first time I snuck in there and saw the huge open, dimly lit throne hall with the dark red moon banners. Like, compounded with the fact that the town's count was already super mysterious, it was just a super cool vibe. It's such a nice memory from that game.
Seriously so sad about this

Elsonso · June 19

Pelanora wrote: »

And they've got even another whole new engine for their 'new project'.

Which I think will be eso renewed, myself.

They have said that it is a new IP. Whether completely new, a recently created IP, or and IP that is just new to ZOS, is unknown. In any case, I doubt that it will be ESO 2.

I would have liked to see a proper Fallout MMO, but with Fallout 76, that is much less likely. In any case, I expect a science fiction MMO. Hopefully, not Starfield Online. Although, for Starfield fans, it might be the only chance at a second game in the series.

As for the New Game engine, my thinking is that they prefer the game and engine to be one and the same.

Valinn wrote: »

But since I've been going through the story (I'm slow, I want to go through it properly, read everything and such), I'm noticing this trend as well - it tells you a story (and it's a pretty good story, I like it so far), but you feel like you're not really involved in it at all. There are no longer any options in the dialogue where you can choose something, and worse, every time there's a problem, or a mystery, or just anything that requires a second guess, all the options and dialogue suggest that you're a totally stupid person who can't get 2+2 right and they has to explain it to you like to a 3 year old. And they make a fuss about it. But they call you a hero and a proxy and god's chosen.

I consider the writing for this Chapter to be better than recent chapters. They did some annoying things to keep the players from getting lost in the mechanics, and to assist those who are terrible at puzzles, or lack the patience to do them.

Since the story is written for a wide variety of players, I do not take any dialog option that my character would not need to ask. In the past, we had to be lobotomized and ask stupid questions to get the quest to progress. I didn't feel as stupid this time around.

My main story objection was with their fancy artifacts. They felt the need to explain this endlessly, and then tell me how and when to use it at every possible opportunity. Most of this I attribute to the NPC not being a practiced adventurer.

As for the overall story, I have to keep in mind with this story that the outcome has already been determined. I walked into the story knowing generally how it had to end. The story wasn't about the ending, but how we arrived at it. I can safely say that I enjoyed the ride.

I was bugged a lot more by conflicts in the story they were rolling out. The fact that there were contemporary books on Ayleid bookshelves that should have 1000 years of dust on them and the Trample-like horse attack that the Imperial soldier lady kept using. These are examples of conflicts in their own thinking about the Chapter.

The locked doors can be explained away by the fact that they have more opportunities in the zone than they have time to fulfill. Lore inconsistencies and conflicts, in their own Lore, are just poor decisions.

These Chapters are expensive. They cost as much as a whole new game. At the very least, if they are going to tell a story and establish Lore, they can do better. It shouldn't cost them a whole lot just to make sure that their stories all line up. If they can't even do that, then I am not sure if I can really expect good meaningful content. That is why Scribing feels so off to me. It isn't feel like good content. It is not even close to Antiquities, or even Tales of Tribute.

Stafford197 · June 19

FelisCatus wrote: »

Pelanora wrote: »

Limiting the burden on the engine.

Can't go on like this for much longer....

If they drop console support this game will be capable of so much more.

Sure it contributes, but if you think old consoles are the only reason for ESO’s issues then you’re very mistaken.

The game is an absolute coding mess….. if we’re being realistic, then we have to recognize that despite the talent at ZOS, they clearly do not have the resources to fix this game. Remember that “foundational code” re-write project a few years back? Well the whole project was quietly swept under the rug, never to be heard of again. I wonder why…..

Also another thing worth considering - the original game attempted to merge each Alliance zone into one massive zone. For example, Glenumbra, Rivenspire, Stormhaven, Alik’r Desert, and Bangkorai would’ve been one singular zone. I imagine this probably caused connectivity issues, and so at some point this was changed. However, if you go out of map in any base game zone right now, you can still find that you’re able to travel very far out of map to visit other zones while still being within your current zone. More importantly, much of those out-of-map zone variants are heavily populated with props like tents, barrels, boxes, castles, etc. You can even visit many towns and locales this way which will Discover the locations too. Surely all of this “duplicate” content is taking up space in one way or another? Im no eso dev though so I can’t say one way or another if this part makes a difference.

Pelanora · June 20

vsrs_au wrote: »

Pelanora wrote: »

vsrs_au wrote: »

In my darker moments, I can't help thinking that the entire game is turning into one big facade.

Ludo ergo sum

I don't understand what you mean by that reply. Yes, I understand the Latin, but how is it relevant to my post?

In your darker moments of doubt the game is just facades just think ludo ergo sum, as in the darkest moments of doubt everything was illusion, Descartes thought cogito ergo sum.

Sorry I figured it was obvious but I guess not remotely

harvey07 · June 20

i thought it was just me thinking: "i hate all these empty buildings" when i saw all the chained up doors in the new city.

Elsonso · June 20

harvey07 wrote: »

i thought it was just me thinking: "i hate all these empty buildings" when i saw all the chained up doors in the new city.

ZOS has been creating the illusion that the world is larger than it is from the start. Zones have terrain that limit view distance. Vvardenfell is huge, but smaller when you realize where you can't go. Summerset is huge, but smaller when you realize where you can't go.

Locked doors are just a way of having a cardboard cutout that looks like a building where they don't have to build an interior.

ZOS is building a massive world. When you look at it, you realize it is a very attractive ankle deep wading pool the size of an ocean.

Vevvev · June 20

I remember when we were sad with all the closed off buildings in Western Skyrim, and it seems that's the direction going forwards. Sad to hear that Skingrad is shaping up to be the same.

Elsonso · June 20

Vevvev wrote: »

I remember when we were sad with all the closed off buildings in Western Skyrim, and it seems that's the direction going forwards. Sad to hear that Skingrad is shaping up to be the same.

I remember commenting about locked doors back as far as Elsweyr...

I remember people commenting that ESO Vvardenfell had this huge no-travel zone in the middle that TES 3 Vvardenfell allowed us to travel over. A tradition that continued with Summerset and the impassible mountains.

I have been whining about the invisible walls in this game since... well... a long time. I figure that if they have to put invisible walls into the game to keep players out of areas, or force them to enter an area from a specific place, they are doing something fundamentally wrong.