"Play As You Want"

agelonestar · June 17

You can "play as you want" and I do.

If you allow clan or guild rosters or so-called meta builds to dictate your life, that's also "playing as you want" - it's a choice.

The breadth of gameplay, styles, builds, and content in ESO is frankly phenomenal and it's all valid. There are loads of things to complain about, but this isn't one of them.

M0ntie · June 17

Here is the view of logs that you want. This is for vLChm, restricted to healers only. Good representation from 3 classes and 5 shown.
But as has been said, "play as you want" doesn't mean that you can play any build and do any content, nor can you expect any group to accept your build, especially if we are talking the hardest trials where complete TEAMWORK is required.

Anifaas · June 17

Everyone is all “play as you want” until they end up with a fake tank in a random dungeon. Then it’s just tears.

Rowjoh · June 17

I always play as I want, whether gaming or in real life.

Sometimes that's got me into trouble, especially in real life, so wouldn't recommend that philosophy for everyone.

Anachronian · June 17

So, this means we should buff all the other classes in order to improve their performance in endgame PVE content, right?

Realistically, the play as you want is and always has been a marketing slogan, for 99.9% of content pretty much any build can in theory work, but there are always optimal ways to play from a completion or score pushing perspective.

Caliope · June 17

Anifaas wrote: »

Everyone is all “play as you want” until they end up with a fake tank in a random dungeon. Then it’s just tears.

that's for me the best comment so far. You can't do a trial with 12 dps, that would be a very short visit. Group content has rules and necessities and the harder they get the more you have to optimize your build and you'll be more and more limited on your choices.

J18696 · June 17

You can play how you want no one ever said the way you want to play is going tobe the optimal way todo it

Yudo · June 17

End gate meta will funnel you into a very narrow playstyle, but despite that ESO still allows much flexibility to play as you want imo.

I am still playing a full light armor mage with staves (RP), despite the medium crit meta.
Still able to to DD, Heal and Tank on my sorc despite better classes out there for different role.
And still able to participate in all the contents successfully (perhaps excluding score pushing).

I am not saying state of combat right now is perfect, but flexibility is certainly there.

Renan · June 17

Don't misread the slogan. It's not "The others should play as i want"

If people want play the meta, they can, its simple.

If you can't reach que requisites for content, you can try harder or buy a carry.

Ragnarok0130 · June 17

OP when it comes to end game content there is always a META. "Play as you want" is for solo play, "play what is effective" is for group play and up to the raid lead for raid composition.

BXR_Lonestar · June 17

Maybe that is just how your guild recruited? Because in the guild I am most engaged with, most of the healers are Templars, and I am one of the few who have a Warden healer. We do actually strive to have multiple classes with different healers though so we can take advantage of group buffs.

jaws343 · June 17

Play as you want -> Play the content you want, play the class you want, do the activities you want to do.

Play as you want /= Everything will be the best at everything.

Play as you want requires you to be prepared to play the content you want. A tank isn't going to work as a healer, if you want to fish you need bait, if you want to use destruction staff skills you need to equip a staff and not a greatsword, etc.

People all too regularly falsely label play as you want as this catch all that means that anything can be done. But there are still best methods to do things (meta classes/builds) and there are still minimum requirements to do anything you want to do. But, the options to do those things are available to players, and that is play how you want.

Also, importantly, play as you want applies to 100% of the game.

If you want to do vet trials, then great, you are playing how you want. You still have to meet some level of set minimum to do so though. Just like fishing. You can say, I want to play as I want, but I don't want to carry bait. Well, then you cannot fish.

Pelanora · June 17

We've talked a lot about play as you want, not meaning the wrong skills and wrong gear in content, just because that's what you want to run.

Play as you want should also mean the game design not locking classes out of playstyles when players ask repeatedly for change. How long were sorcs locked into pets, but with sorcs asking for change? What's going on with necro? Zos being responsive to players should also be what 'play as you want' means.

jaws343 · June 17

Pelanora wrote: »

We've talked a lot about play as you want, not meaning the wrong skills and wrong gear in content, just because that's what you want to run.

Play as you want should also mean the game design not locking classes out of playstyles when players ask repeatedly for change. How long were sorcs locked into pets, but with sorcs asking for change? What's going on with necro? Zos being responsive to players should also be what 'play as you want' means.

But sorcs were not locked into pets...

Meta builds were locked to pets. But no pet play was absolutely viable. It just wasn't as strong. But still capable of doing content. My solo 2 bar setup for sorc has been unchanged since Elswyr released. It has no pets, it does vet content, it solos vet arenas.

Is non pet sorc better now than it was before? Absolutely, but that doesn't mean it also didn't work before. Because it did.

SeaUnicorn · June 17

Optimization is also a play style. Those people want to optimize. That's why they are at the top of the leaderboard. So they are playing as they want.

Warhawke_80 · June 17

SeaUnicorn wrote: »

Optimization is also a play style. Those people want to optimize. That's why they are at the top of the leaderboard. So they are playing as they want.

No that is myopically follow the spreadsheet...and you are punished if you don't follow along, so it has nothing to do with freedom.

miguelcura · June 17

SeaUnicorn wrote: »

Optimization is also a play style. Those people want to optimize. That's why they are at the top of the leaderboard. So they are playing as they want.

How strange that everyone likes the same thing... LOL

Vulkunne · June 17

They meant to say, "Play as you ... Warden". Which is what everyone wants right?

Fixed it for ya. Wasn't that nice of me

Pelanora · June 17

jaws343 wrote: »

Pelanora wrote: »

We've talked a lot about play as you want, not meaning the wrong skills and wrong gear in content, just because that's what you want to run.

Play as you want should also mean the game design not locking classes out of playstyles when players ask repeatedly for change. How long were sorcs locked into pets, but with sorcs asking for change? What's going on with necro? Zos being responsive to players should also be what 'play as you want' means.

But sorcs were not locked into pets...

Meta builds were locked to pets. But no pet play was absolutely viable. It just wasn't as strong. But still capable of doing content. My solo 2 bar setup for sorc has been unchanged since Elswyr released. It has no pets, it does vet content, it solos vet arenas.

Is non pet sorc better now than it was before? Absolutely, but that doesn't mean it also didn't work before. Because it did.

That is the difference I'm pointing out. There's choices the individual can make- sure you can still play it- and choices the game makes for us- best damage is this way not that way, because options aren't balanced.

Those are two ways to look at 'play the way you want' and both matter.

Yea you can fight and fight and rez and rez and in the end manage thru a dungeon with a poor build you just happen to love and you're with your mates so everyone's happy.. great etc that's your choice.... but if that dungeon has a dps check and given the time it takes you, you absolutely will wipe and just will never progress past, the wipe is too powerful, that's the game deciding for you- certain builds but not others. Equally if things aren't balanced that's the game imposing choices.

I'm just saying there's two sides to the play as you want, story. The individual AND zos.

alpha_synuclein · June 17

miguelcura wrote: »

SeaUnicorn wrote: »

Optimization is also a play style. Those people want to optimize. That's why they are at the top of the leaderboard. So they are playing as they want.

How strange that everyone likes the same thing... LOL

In this case what we like is being as strong as possible, not playing specific class. The source of fun here is being efficient, not expressing yourself through individualized builds.

And if zos insists of making one option so much stronger than others, when your goal is optimization, you don't have much choice than to go with it.

But that does not change the fact that min-maxing is also a choice that a lot of players like to make.

Nharimlur_Finor · June 18

I like to trip through the fields and hills picking flowers.
If I want to spice it up with a little violence, I kill a few scribs for the jelly.

Hope that helps

thorwyn · June 18

How strange that everyone likes the same thing... LOL

Nothing strange at all about this. Min-Maxing is just the way some people are approaching a challenge.
Compare it to chess. In chess, there is this thing called opening theory. Basically, generations of grandmasters were trying to figure out which opening moves are good, which ones are not so good and which ones are downright bad. And their work has been documented and is available to everyone. Chess players now have a choice of following the results of the work by playing the designated best moves, OR they have the choice to completely ignore the existing theory and play their own moves.
In competitive chess as you are getting better and the opponents are getting stronger, the group of players that are avoiding any theory is getting smaller and smaller and will eventually hit zero percent.

Rkindaleft · June 18

miguelcura wrote: »

Seriously, does anyone believe that lie?
If I look for the healers, 90% are Warden. With clan rosters you are more limited than in WoW.

Endgame teams will utilise whatever is meta for the raid to clear the aforementioned raid.

In all seriousness, you took a log of the Lucent Citadel trifecta runs and teams that are getting close to the trifecta and posted it, obviously everyone who is going for the trifecta is going to use whatever is meta because it's the easiest and most efficient way to obtain the achievement. Trials are for a group of 12. You have to consider how your "play as you want" playstyle might not be helping the other 11 players in your group, as it's about your team and not just about you. If you want to obtain the hardest PvE achievements in the game and have a sub-optimal build and refuse to change it, you are holding back the other 11.

There are hundreds of guilds out there that don't have requirements for DPS or don't mind what class you bring, you can join the plethora of those.

Blood_again · June 18

miguelcura wrote: »

Seriously, does anyone believe that lie?
If I look for the healers, 90% are Warden. With clan rosters you are more limited than in WoW.

Do game mechanics disallow you to add some DK or Sorc healers to your group and enter the trial? Won't the door open?
Maybe the game interface limits your guild roster to Arcanists only? So you can't play this trial the way you want.
Did I get it right?

belial5221_ESO · June 18

It's still play as you want.Some people want the most efficient build for their role,so they choose a known meta.Play as you want just means a choice of how you build your character,since any alliance,class,and race combo can do any role.

sarahthes · June 18

miguelcura wrote: »

SeaUnicorn wrote: »

Optimization is also a play style. Those people want to optimize. That's why they are at the top of the leaderboard. So they are playing as they want.

How strange that everyone likes the same thing... LOL

Well, playing in a good, top tier group is *fun*.

JustLovely · June 18

It's play as you want...unless you want massive faction vs. faction vs. faction fights like we used to have. It's shameful how ZOS has treated Cyrodiil PvP in the last 5 years.