"Play As You Want"

miguelcura

Seriously, does anyone believe that lie?
If I look for the healers, 90% are Warden. With clan rosters you are more limited than in WoW.

AzuraFan

"Play as you want" is a marketing slogan, not reality. So I guess the answer is that not many people believe it.

TaSheen

I believe it because I "live" it. I do what I want (as long as it's fun) - so I'm fine with that slogan.

LunaFlora

you can heal with any class you want.

And your images seem unrelated to your post. they do not show any healers nor wardens

Vevvev

Technically it's not a lie as you can play as you want. Now.... will you actually be able to perform your role with a completely incorrect or unorthodox build that goes contrary to the stated goal? Maaaaybe???
Will you be better at it than the people who've perfectly streamlined their builds to do it the most optimal way possible? No.

Pelanora

TaSheen wrote: »

I believe it because I "live" it. I do what I want (as long as it's fun) - so I'm fine with that slogan.

What you want to do being available to you, is not the same as everything one might want to do, being available. Play as you want should fit all possibilities to be true, not just a subset.

There's many ways people want to play that are simply not available to them- for ex a top performing necro. Not having to be a Warden healer per OP. Sorc not having to have pets- only lately somewhat fixed. Etc.

You are simply lucky that you happen to want, what the game does provide.

Desiato

It is play how you want. Any class can complete all content in any role. Easily.

However, that doesn't mean that all classes are completely equal in all roles. What you're seeing is a desire among players who utilize esologs to play the best classes for the roles they choose.

This is mainly because the average trial player tries to emulate what they see from the top score pushing groups that optimize every aspect of the trial, not because they have to. In reality, one can heal, tank or dps an HM trial with any class.

Of course, most players in ESO don't use esologs, so it's primarily the trial and enthusiast community represented in its data.

It should also be noted that groups will usually want to use different classes for each of their tanks and healers to benefit from a wider range of skills and passives.

Edit: I just realized your images are all dps. It's true that arcanists currently dominate dps in trials, but not necessarily because they're best at it. it's because they're so easy to play. In the case of vLC, they excel because every fight has lots of adds.

tomofhyrule

"Play as you want" does and always has meant "you can do any of the content on the game." It does not imply that you are able to do it at high level (vet/HM), nor does it imply that other players are required to take players they don't want to.

Every time this comes up, people always show the highest of the high scores to prove there's 'only one build allowed.' Obviously, they're scorepushers going for the meta, which means there will be very little diversity in builds there. Meta exists for a reason.

Now, if you wanted to prove "Play as you want," you'd want to instead look at logs for the middle (or slightly below average) on the normal version of the trial. I'm sure there's a lot more diversity in classes, races, sets, skills, builds, etc. there. Because it is completely possible to do all trials with a group of just-learning players on normal. Assuming, of course, the players are interested in performing their roles and not e.g. trying to 'tank' with medium armor, no self heal, and no taunt.

And again, if you don't want to play a certain class, then it's completely possible to set up your own groups as well. I did a vLC in a social guild that had a total of 1 Arcanist, including a variety of classes and 3 NBs (who are always said to be bottom-of-the-barrel in PvE), where most of the DPS struggle to clear vet trials in general. It took a while, but LC is actually one of the better trials since it doesn't really have hard DPS checks.

In short: Yes, play as you want. Just don't expect you can take something that works only in overland to get Godslayer.

OtarTheMad

You can “play as you want” but ESOLogs just shows a different part of the game… pretty much what Desiato said.

In terms of just completing the game though, you can do it on just about anything with a lot of different builds. As long as your dps is about 20k-30k. It’s only when you get to endgame, elite, score pushing stuff where you need to wear certain sets and have certain abilities etc.

SilverBride

This is "play as you want".

An unprecedented achievement for an online RPG, One Tamriel removes Alliance restrictions and will automatically level your characters to match the difficulty of the content wherever you are in the world. Travel where you like, whenever you like, with whomever you like regardless of their Alliance or level. Accept any quest, fight any monster, and experience a world of adventure without limits!

Pelanora

SilverBride wrote: »

This is "play as you want".

An unprecedented achievement for an online RPG, One Tamriel removes Alliance restrictions and will automatically level your characters to match the difficulty of the content wherever you are in the world. Travel where you like, whenever you like, with whomever you like regardless of their Alliance or level. Accept any quest, fight any monster, and experience a world of adventure without limits!

This is what OP means, from the zos combat values:

Play The Way You Want
We strive to provide freedom and flexibility that allow you to transform your character fantasy into a gameplay reality. We value diversity of choice and playstyle with abilities, weapons, and armor. Some combinations of these tools are more effective than others, but every character should have the capacity to protect their group, mend allies, or devastate foes.

Wear any combination of light, medium, and heavy armor

Slot abilities from any skill line you've discovered

"Deck building" through a selection of abilities, items, Champion Points, etc.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/624269/eso-developer-deep-dive-core-combat-values/p1

TaSheen

Eh, play as you want really only applies to those of us who play overland content solo. Anyone who wants to do group content must make some concessions (well, leaving out of that normal dungeons - and I'm not sure as it's not content I do but maybe also normal trials) .

When discussing group content you absolutely have to consider that your "playing the way you want to" may not be appropriate for more difficult group content.

From my PoV, btw - this is subjective, based on what I've read on this forum for over 7 years. But I really think what I've stated above is far more realistic a way to view "play as you want". Oh, and "marketspeak" from wherever is really NOT a good basis for belief....

LaintalAy

SilverBride wrote: »

This is "play as you want".

An unprecedented achievement for an online RPG, One Tamriel removes Alliance restrictions and will automatically level your characters to match the difficulty of the content wherever you are in the world. Travel where you like, whenever you like, with whomever you like regardless of their Alliance or level. Accept any quest, fight any monster, and experience a world of adventure without limits!

That's the real definition.

I started after One Tamriel and was slightly astounded by the idea that, before 1T, players were limited to where they were allowed to go and when they could get there.

Pelanora

TaSheen wrote: »

Eh, play as you want really only applies to those of us who play overland content solo. Anyone who wants to do group content must make some concessions (well, leaving out of that normal dungeons - and I'm not sure as it's not content I do but maybe also normal trials) .

When discussing group content you absolutely have to consider that your "playing the way you want to" may not be appropriate for more difficult group content.

From my PoV, btw - this is subjective, based on what I've read on this forum for over 7 years. But I really think what I've stated above is far more realistic a way to view "play as you want". Oh, and "marketspeak" from wherever is really NOT a good basis for belief....

I think this is a different point. Yes compromise for group outcomes cuts into freedom of individual choice, and limits the sense in which anyone can really choose a way to play, if classes are limited in their options they way zos limits them.

I was pointing out playing a subset of the game, and saying it's play as you want.... for you, isn't what the statement should mean.

Hapexamendios

People who play as they want in a pug trial are usually kicked fairly quickly in my experience

miguelcura

Hapexamendios wrote: »

People who play as they want in a pug trial are usually kicked fairly quickly in my experience

Only you understood the post

The answer: "I can solo however I want" doesn't work in MMOs... ...in that case, everyone should play Skyrim.

mdjessup4906

It's "play as you want" as long as whatever you're playing can hit the numbers needed for whatever group stuff you're doing, or your group will hate you.

Not quite as catchy though.

And "any class can do all content" is true, but not necessarily true for a given person.

I can't do vet level dps on anything but an arc no matter how much I practice. If it goes the way of oakensoul, I will not be able to dps vet. It's what it is I guess.

Which is funny because I was terrible on oakensoul too, even before the nerf.

Warhawke_80

If Play as you want actually existed we would have a true TES MMO with no classes

kargen27

Play as you want kind of works like rights in the United States. You have certain rights but only up to the point where those rights do not infringe on the rights of others.
Same thing applies. You can play as you like but only to the point where you don't infringe on others playing as they like. Problem is most the time we are left to work things out for ourselves. If you want to do the quest on a daily random and another member wants a speed run to the final boss one isn't going to get to play as they want with that particular group. Which one depends on a few factors but either way there are ways in the game outside that group for both to eventually be happy.

master_vanargand

if play as you want, you will be penalized and your character will become weaker in this game.

Desiato

It is play as you want for 99% of the content in the game. A player can choose any distribution of health/magicka/stamina, wear any armor/weapon of their level and use almost any combination of abilities and still be successful. They can even complete vMA with one bar heavy attack builds!

You have to put it into context. Many years ago before 1T and hybridization, players were much more restricted in how they could build characters. Relative to then, it's definitely play as you want. The game had veteran rank levels, and if one didn't learn how to build competently, they would have a hard time with even overland vet content.

Even considering vet trials, back in 2016, I wouldn't be raiding as a magicka dk weilding daggers, a 2h, wearing 6 pieces of medium armor with 1 piece of light, and using a combination of magicka and stamina abilities!

The OP's post was obviously about raid roles. Classes have been homogenized to the point any class can do well in any role. The skill of the player is the most important factor, not the class. Most raid groups follow the templates provided by the most competitive groups without being competitive themselves. It makes sense for them to choose that path, but they don't have to play cookie cutter builds and raid comps. There's lots of room for players to play their favorite character in any role and flexible experimentation, even if most choose not to do it.

EF321

It's play as you want, not win as you want.

FlopsyPrince

Not the point here, but many on the forums will say you are a whiner if you even note something you want!

pklemming

Play as you want, but you may not be required for the guild you are applying to.

It really depends on the level you play at. The higher you go, the more class restrictions.

thorwyn

People who play as they want in a pug trial are usually kicked fairly quickly in my experience

And guess what? Those people who kick people they don't want in their group are playing how THEY want too.

Treeshka

Play how you want ends when you step into vet trials and some vet dungeons. Hard mode is also no go for play how you want.

Still you can clear vet raids and dungeons with any class and with somewhat optimized sets, but do not expect to get an easy trifecta for latest raids with everyone playing heavy armor wielded Nord damage dealers.

There is also the player mentality and expectations as a raid leader.

LordGavus

Hapexamendios wrote: »

People who play as they want in a pug trial are usually kicked fairly quickly in my experience

Yeah most likely. But people who play how they want in a guild group trial are fine.

A few years ago I used to run a no meta, theme build only vet trial night. The weirder the build the better. Had some great builds, snb dps, stam healers, true hybrid builds (before the current max resource scaling).

We cleared all vet trials. Was it efficient? Hell no. Did we struggle? Yep, but it's possible to complete content however you like.
Of course, 'play as you want' won't get you trifectas and leaderboard scores, but I don't see a problem with that.

If any random build was as effective as the most carefully constructed build, what would be the point?

Jaimeh

First of all, you can play as you want for 99% of the game. No hyperbole, if you know your class and the content you can be decent while also being highly creative. However, for certain end-game activities, 'play as you want' shouldn't be a thing, you should play for efficiency and optimization. hence the end-game part. You can clear LC on any DD spec but arcanist is particularly great there, not just because of the high damage ceiling but because it's a very AoE heavy trial, and also needs mitigation, both of which the class offers aplenty without really sacrificing on your rotation or build. Not to mention that said rotation is relatively easy. While I definitely agree that certain specs need buffing for PvE, they still probably wouldn't be as good or straightforward for LC particularly because of the aforementioned reasons. But LC is not the only trial out there and tbf you can bring another class, you'll just make it a bit harder on yourself (I did on melee stamNB, and though it was a more difficult experience than arcanist, it was doable, and also that doesn't mean that spec doesn't work well for other trials). Finally, as an aside, the 'play as you want' philosophy, while a selling point for the game, has made more harm than good where harder content is concerned. That's why every time new content is created, you see posts in the forums ''why can't I cleat vet X thing on my 1 bar, 2 skills, random gear character'? Sometimes I even expect to hear 'why can't I clear stuff on my pacifist RP toon'? It creates entitlement. This is a game and has rules, especially for harder content, it's logical that for something you have to adapt and play as the game demands in order to be successful.

tsaescishoeshiner

Most groups have DPS requirements, not class requirements. And you can get 100k on every class as far as I'm aware, which is a pretty high minimum req.

robpr

Play how you want, but it doesn't mean you will automatically compete with leaderboard or trifecta runs. For just clear, sure.

alpha_synuclein

You can play custom builds in vast majority of the content.
But with current "balance" if you are not playing arcanist you need to be muuuuch better DD to achieve the same numbers.