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Werewolf Rework idea

fenn1539
fenn1539
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Alrighty so to start, we all know why someone would make this post being that Werewolf constantly goes between broken overpowered and underpowered and worse, is boring to boot while also being stressful as hell because of the base nature of how its treated and works from everything to the transformation ability to the passives and even the innate abilities. My first idea to remedy this would be to change the transformation ability to no longer require ult to use and make it a toggleable ability that you can turn on and off and instead, give it a stamina cost at base with the berserker morph even perhaps exchanging it to a health cost meaning that you no longer have to worry about the upcoming drawback BUT DO have a constant health drain and a big one in exchange encouraging the use of 2 specific mythics i dont see enough love for because their pros arent enough to outweigh their cons in one case and not enough to justify their use over other mythics in the others case being the gaze of sithis and the stormweavers cavort. The reason i think this would be a good idea is because firstly, it makes the transformation into a WW smoother and feel far less restircting and make it provide a fun new challenge to build around of either making your stamina regeneration crazy high in the case of the pack leader (tank) morph in order to outpace the stamina drain with so long as your stamina bar never reaches 0, you will maintain your transformation which will help to let the abilites and passives maintain their immense power as you now have to build around a unique challenge and teeter a more fun line in combat instead of having to maintain that annoying as transformation bar with fighting or eating corpses only to eventually not find enough people to fight and or eat and drop out needing to rebuild in the best case in regards to ult cost, 132 ult if you an imperial with the salvation set and on sorcerer which while not a lot is still too much time you have to spend as a normal ass human trying to rebuild that ult bar instead of getting to play as a werewolf through no fault of your own.

Now to move onto the next major issue now that we have freed up some level of the issues restraining the class and making it far less fun to the point that you NEED to play either templar or sorc for that ult gen cost reduction and play either nord or imperial for the same reason by making it so there is no longer a WW ability bar but instead like the vampire abilites, you can use your abilites in your human form and they get added to your normal 2 bars meaning WW not only can be 2 bars but to some degree are encouraged to use class abilities along side their WW abilites but they loose out on their weapon abilites while in WW form aside from specifically two handed weapons as you can justify that they would be made large enough to be able to even be wielded by you in your WW form but also to allow for some interesting choices in combat and hell, maybe you could even let WW use magic like that one guy whos name i forgot from soul eater who was that immortal magic using WW who stole his magic from the witches to use as he saw fit with that was actually both pretty funny and cool at the same time and could open up more RP options with this also prevents them from getting the damage benefits of dual wielding and bows and the tank benefits of sword and board as even if your equipped weapons count towards your set, if you cant use them in your WW form like those 3 weapons, they dont grant you any bonuses to offset the power from getting your WW bar removed and just getting to use your normal 2 bars with your WW abilites.

Lastly, i honestly dont have much issue with the abilites at this point as they have beed tweaked and granted buffs that have made them honestly suitable enough for the power of what a WW should have but the passives with the bloodrage and the devour passives needing to be changed thanks to how i changed the transformation ability with firstly, i would say devour should refund stamina instead of transformation timer to give you a good way to restore both health and stamina to help both berserkers who will die if they push their transformation too hard and pack leaders who will revert to their human forms for at least a solid minute before they can return to their WW form if they arent careful. beyond that, i think the bloodrage passive should be removed all together and replaced with one that makes your character have more hair on their arms, back, and chest as well as their face and grant you passive minor resolve even in human form as well as minor protection under the thought that your Lycantrhopy has finally finished rooting itself in your soul and now your body has begun to take on the strength of the wolf spirit within even in your human state with this just helping make lycanthropes just flat out far more powerful tanks than most thanks to their innate strength and durability with perhaps the savage strength morph even granting major protection as while they are transformed, their WW hide become far more durable to any form of attack.

All in all, this isnt perfect, i know that but part of fixing issues with an idea is getting it out there for people to see and critique as well as add their own ideas to if they so desire to make it into a properly good idea and personally, i think this is a great start and could even lead into perhaps a new ability line or even 2 for WW to grant them a proper tank line that grants unique dmg mitigation buffs and taunts unique to WW while than also getting a proper healer line for those WW who wanna use a Resto staff and play act a holy WW who despite being a monster with such immense strength, only wants to help protect and heal others for some fun gap moe or something while also granting unique support abilites.
  • fenn1539
    fenn1539
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    oh yea and one last fun idea i forgot was that the passive i mentioned to replace blood rage could perhaps instead have its visual appearnace changes on the blood moon passive that lets ya bite other players AND that increased wolf like appearance should also make all Wolves (barring ones in dungeons, trials, and or otherwise meant to be a part of an enemy faction should be neutral to you meaning so long as you dont attack them, they wont attack you and perhaps in a fight can become temporary allies that you cant hit who come and help ya kill whatever is fighting ya again tho barring the occasions where they are say meant to be dogs of an enemy faction and or meant to be the areas challenging content.
  • Erickson9610
    Erickson9610
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    fenn1539 wrote: »
    My first idea to remedy this would be to change the transformation ability to no longer require ult to use and make it a toggleable ability that you can turn on and off and instead, give it a stamina cost at base with the berserker morph even perhaps exchanging it to a health cost meaning that you no longer have to worry about the upcoming drawback BUT DO have a constant health drain and a big one in exchange

    So, I do agree that I'd prefer if Werewolf Transformation was a toggle, akin to using the Ring of Hircine in TES V: Skyrim to transform into your Beast Form any number of times each day.

    About the Werewolf Transformation timer being swapped for a Stamina or Health drain:
    • I can name at least one other video game in which transforming into a werewolf employed a similar timer system. In that game, you had a "buffer" bar, which would drain over time, but could be refilled by killing enemies. It's fairly similar to the system ESO and TES V: Skyrim use. However, when that timer runs out, rather than revert your form, it starts draining your Health instead. So if this was implemented in ESO, I'd imagine it would still use the Werewolf Transformation timer, but instead of reverting your form if you fail to feed, it'll apply ramping Oblivion Damage to you (like holding a Chaos Ball) until you feed again.
    • A draining Stamina cost will be rough to work with in PvE, and a draining Health cost would be horrible to work with in PvE and PvP alike.
    fenn1539 wrote: »
    Now to move onto the next major issue now that we have freed up some level of the issues restraining the class and making it far less fun to the point that you NEED to play either templar or sorc for that ult gen cost reduction and play either nord or imperial for the same reason by making it so there is no longer a WW ability bar but instead like the vampire abilites, you can use your abilites in your human form and they get added to your normal 2 bars meaning WW not only can be 2 bars but to some degree are encouraged to use class abilities along side their WW abilites but they loose out on their weapon abilites while in WW form aside from specifically two handed weapons as you can justify that they would be made large enough to be able to even be wielded by you in your WW form but also to allow for some interesting choices in combat and hell, maybe you could even let WW use magic like that one guy whos name i forgot from soul eater who was that immortal magic using WW who stole his magic from the witches to use as he saw fit with that was actually both pretty funny and cool at the same time and could open up more RP options with this also prevents them from getting the damage benefits of dual wielding and bows and the tank benefits of sword and board as even if your equipped weapons count towards your set, if you cant use them in your WW form like those 3 weapons, they dont grant you any bonuses to offset the power from getting your WW bar removed and just getting to use your normal 2 bars with your WW abilites.

    ESO werewolves having a transformation and only being able to use their own attacks has been a staple of TES werewolves for a very long time. While there are other video games which allow werewolves and werewolf-like characters to wield martial or magical weapons and use abilities that their human form can use, TES werewolves offer a slightly different power fantasy — one more akin to horror movie werewolves who go berserk with tooth and nail.

    While Werewolf indeed would benefit from having their human form's two skill bars and access to non-Werewolf skills, it wouldn't match up with the vision for TES werewolves. It would also take a lot of work to make the animations for the human skills being used by the werewolf form or the werewolf skills being used by the human form.


    Overall, there are a lot of intriguing ideas here!
    PC/NA — Lone Werewolf, the Templar Khajiit Werewolf

    Werewolf Should be Allowed to Sneak
    Please give us Werewolf Skill Styles (for customizing our fur color), Grimoires/Scribing skills (to fill in the holes in our builds), and Companions (to transform with).
  • fenn1539
    fenn1539
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    honestly i could totally enjoy the health drain after the time runs out idea too cause it would deal with the annoyance of having a hard time maintaining the transformation and make it feel fun to play instead of stressful and as for the being able to use 2 bars and their class abilites, sure it would take a lot to do but kinda like how with a *** car with cool carseat covers full of mold, even if ya love the carseats or even if ya hate them but dont care, when you realize they're that bad, they just need to be removed and replaced and this is the same concept of all that work is what WW needs to fix the hot mess it is.
  • Elyu
    Elyu
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    My main issue with WW is how it's "all or nothing" - you build FOR WW and ignore the non-transformed build entirely, or you don't use it at all.

    Based on that, I think there should be an active mechanic that affects your human(oid) form, not just the passive "increased poison damage" - something like a permanent weapon poison that deals bleed damage, but the longer you go "smelling blood" without being transformed the more damage you deal but the more dmg you take, until you toggle transform which resets the buff/debuff and a similar mechanic while transformed - thus incentivising using both humanoid and WW forms, instead of one or the other.

    (e.g. the "Beorning" class in LoTRO)
  • Hasenpfote
    Hasenpfote
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    The Werewolf need access to non-class-skills, then it will balance itself. It is impossible to balance werewolf, if you only have one bar, meaning you have to give him all relevant skills as passibe somehow. Werewolf is already in big disadvantage, that he does not can benefit from weapon skill passives like penetration, block, crit etc.
  • fenn1539
    fenn1539
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    Elyu wrote: »
    My main issue with WW is how it's "all or nothing" - you build FOR WW and ignore the non-transformed build entirely, or you don't use it at all.

    Based on that, I think there should be an active mechanic that affects your human(oid) form, not just the passive "increased poison damage" - something like a permanent weapon poison that deals bleed damage, but the longer you go "smelling blood" without being transformed the more damage you deal but the more dmg you take, until you toggle transform which resets the buff/debuff and a similar mechanic while transformed - thus incentivising using both humanoid and WW forms, instead of one or the other.

    (e.g. the "Beorning" class in LoTRO)

    i get what your saying and admitedly, my human form buffs were only that you get permanent minor resolve and protection and also that you can use your WW powers while out of your WW form as well as the whole, all wild wolf enemies (barring ones in trials and dungeons) are neutral towards you. tbf tho part of the reasoning is that the class fantasy with WW for a lot of us IS being in the WW form in every fight and all the time with being in human form would be something that you flat out wouldnt wanna be doing really at all. ultimately i think its just a difference in WW taste that we got where you want one thats got good reason for both forms while meanwhile i moreso love the route where their WW form is where their real strength shows anyways with i did come up with an added benefit in their passives from you saying the 'smelling blood' thing but not related to the transformation time but instead that your stealth detection radius should be massively boosted by like at least 10m if not 15m and 20 to 25m in WW form.
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