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Shared loot/xp feature didn't work out too well after all
South_of_Heaven
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A small % of damage to the mob's hp, enough to reward you with both its loot and experience.
Done to prevent kill stealing (KS) so that everyone will be happy.
KS is a really serious issue, we don't want anyone to be sad by having their monster tagged by another before they get the chance to tag it themselves.
It had some minor side-effects though.
Not only does it encourage multi-box botting, but it also makes really, really profitable. Also it might be one of the reasons some players got to 50 on the freaking 2nd day after the game was released, just saying. But yea, nerf monster exp more because that must be what was at fault there.
So, no wonder you see an army of multi-box bots in every other dungeon. One inside the other, hitting with perfect timing, all getting the loot and exp.
So those who thought it was such a great idea, when I posted against it on the forums 1-2 years ago, because they were terrified of KS and losing a precious lewt and being psychologically scarred for life - don't you dare complain now, neither about bots being everywhere, nor about dungeon bosses and world bosses diminishing loot returns.
PS: And before that guy pops up and talks about quest mobs and says how waiting for them to respawn if someone else tagged them sucks, they could just keep that feature on quest objective and quest items. It's not like they are glued together.
Edited by South_of_Heaven on May 10, 2014 2:26PM Done to prevent kill stealing (KS) so that everyone will be happy.
KS is a really serious issue, we don't want anyone to be sad by having their monster tagged by another before they get the chance to tag it themselves.
It had some minor side-effects though.
Not only does it encourage multi-box botting, but it also makes really, really profitable. Also it might be one of the reasons some players got to 50 on the freaking 2nd day after the game was released, just saying. But yea, nerf monster exp more because that must be what was at fault there.
So, no wonder you see an army of multi-box bots in every other dungeon. One inside the other, hitting with perfect timing, all getting the loot and exp.
So those who thought it was such a great idea, when I posted against it on the forums 1-2 years ago, because they were terrified of KS and losing a precious lewt and being psychologically scarred for life - don't you dare complain now, neither about bots being everywhere, nor about dungeon bosses and world bosses diminishing loot returns.
PS: And before that guy pops up and talks about quest mobs and says how waiting for them to respawn if someone else tagged them sucks, they could just keep that feature on quest objective and quest items. It's not like they are glued together.
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Moonraker✭✭✭✭KS = ?
If it's shared loot you have an issue with I'm not sure why. It's already tough enough for players to group for questing etc. without another barrier.
If it's bots you have an issue with they are dealing with them over time and we just keep reporting them.
If it's multi-boxing you have an issue with, well, since ZOS have not said it is against ToS then it's working as intended.1 -
South_of_Heaven✭✭✭KS = ?
If it's shared loot you have an issue with I'm not sure why. It's already tough enough for players to group for questing etc. without another barrier.
If it's bots you have an issue with they are dealing with them over time and we just keep reporting them.
If it's multi-boxing you have an issue with, well, since ZOS have not said it is against ToS then it's working as intended.
Did you understand a single word of what I wrote?
1) KS is kill stealing, a popular term in mmorpgs. ESO must be your first? First time's the sweetest.
2) Nearly every bot uses multi-boxing. If multi-boxing is that profitable it is common sense the game would be filled with bots. Normal players in their majority do not multi-box. Multi-boxing is the standard for farming bots however and since it's so profitable with the shared loot/xp ESO becomes a bot paradise. Understood?
3) Yes, I can see the picture, you, in one year from now, when people complain about bots being everywhere, will keep saying, "they are dealing with it".
4) I even made it clear in my PS about the questing part. I thought someone bright would bring that up, but you break the record by mentioning it after I answered about it already. Unless ofc you didn't read it.
Edited by South_of_Heaven on May 10, 2014 2:35PM0 -
Epona222✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Wow, rude.GM - Ghost Sea Trading Co - NA PC
Epona was a Romano-Celtic goddess dating back to around 1800 to 2000 years before computer games were invented.3 -
Blackwolfe5✭✭✭Most of the huge groups of "people" you see running around killing stuff synced are most likely not multiboxers (even though the bots might utilize the same things). They are bots, plain and simple. Those need to be dealt with as well as people who are stupid enough to buy gold.
But yeah, let's focus on things that punish legit players shall we? *sigh*
Seriously, team play (grouped or ungrouped) needs to be encouraged, not punished.Edited by Blackwolfe5 on May 10, 2014 2:40PM2 -
South_of_Heaven✭✭✭
Shocking right?Wow, rude.Blackwolfe5 wrote: »Most of the huge groups of "people" you see running around killing stuff synced are most likely not multiboxers (even though the bots might utilize the same things). They are bots, plain and simple. Those need to be dealt with as well as people who are stupid enough to buy gold.
But yeah, let's focus on things that punish legit players shall we? *sigh*
Seriously, team play (grouped or ungrouped) needs to be encouraged, not punished.
Synced without multi-boxing? Attacking at the same second and moving together?
How is that possible?
I get what you mean but that's not the right way to encourage it. Countless games have used other things that encouraged grouping and they have worked much better without these kinds of side-effects.Edited by South_of_Heaven on May 10, 2014 2:43PM0 -
Epona222✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭South_of_Heaven wrote: »
Not shocking, just sometimes being on this forum makes me feel as though I'm walking past a playground argument. I do sometimes wish everyone would just drop the attitude and try to be a bit nicer to one another - not likely I know, but I can dream.
GM - Ghost Sea Trading Co - NA PC
Epona was a Romano-Celtic goddess dating back to around 1800 to 2000 years before computer games were invented.1 -
Blackwolfe5✭✭✭It's very possible, depending on what kind of programming/scripting the bots use. If all the bots detect the same mob at the same time, of course they are going to attack at the same time as well. I bet they even have scripting to detect each other if one of the bots gets caught up somehow so they can sync up. As a matter of fact, after studying several of the bot trains in stonefalls and deshaan, I'm pretty sure of it.
The bots are the problem here, not the system. Sure, the system makes it easier for the bots to make more gold/faster, but making the system "old-school" would mostly punish legit players.0 -
KerinKor✭✭✭✭✭
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Your drivel was very clear .. and absurd.South_of_Heaven wrote: »KS = ?
If it's shared loot you have an issue with I'm not sure why. It's already tough enough for players to group for questing etc. without another barrier.
If it's bots you have an issue with they are dealing with them over time and we just keep reporting them.
If it's multi-boxing you have an issue with, well, since ZOS have not said it is against ToS then it's working as intended.
Did you understand a single word of what I wrote?
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South_of_Heaven✭✭✭South_of_Heaven wrote: »
Not shocking, just sometimes being on this forum makes me feel as though I'm walking past a playground argument. I do sometimes wish everyone would just drop the attitude and try to be a bit nicer to one another - not likely I know, but I can dream.
You know... believe it or not, I love being nice and using good manners. But in some cases, patience runs thin. For example when you write something and people take time to answer without taking time to read a post, just to troll or mindlessly defend. I feel like strangling them so it's rather hard to be nice.
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KerinKor✭✭✭✭✭
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Your patronizing and condescending reply to the guy who asked was KS means shows you're nothing like the kind of person you think you are.South_of_Heaven wrote: »South_of_Heaven wrote: »
Not shocking, just sometimes being on this forum makes me feel as though I'm walking past a playground argument. I do sometimes wish everyone would just drop the attitude and try to be a bit nicer to one another - not likely I know, but I can dream.
You know... believe it or not, I love being nice and using good manners. But in some cases, patience runs thin. For example when you write something and people take time to answer without taking time to read a post, just to troll or mindlessly defend. I feel like strangling them so it's rather hard to be nice.
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South_of_Heaven✭✭✭
Your patronizing and condescending reply to the guy who asked was KS means shows you're nothing like the kind of person you think you are.South_of_Heaven wrote: »South_of_Heaven wrote: »
Not shocking, just sometimes being on this forum makes me feel as though I'm walking past a playground argument. I do sometimes wish everyone would just drop the attitude and try to be a bit nicer to one another - not likely I know, but I can dream.
You know... believe it or not, I love being nice and using good manners. But in some cases, patience runs thin. For example when you write something and people take time to answer without taking time to read a post, just to troll or mindlessly defend. I feel like strangling them so it's rather hard to be nice.
You must have only read the first sentence too in the paragraph you quoted. Maybe you would also like some patronizing and condescending replies. Oh and also about the "drivel" you were talking about... Blackwolfe5 seems to have special powers. Because he clearly understood what I said. But you obviously only want to bicker (like my ex) as you did with the only two posts you posted in this thread. If you can only bicker, nicely take a hike.Blackwolfe5 wrote: »It's very possible, depending on what kind of programming/scripting the bots use. If all the bots detect the same mob at the same time, of course they are going to attack at the same time as well. I bet they even have scripting to detect each other if one of the bots gets caught up somehow so they can sync up. As a matter of fact, after studying several of the bot trains in stonefalls and deshaan, I'm pretty sure of it.
The bots are the problem here, not the system. Sure, the system makes it easier for the bots to make more gold/faster, but making the system "old-school" would mostly punish legit players.
The system makes botting extremely profitable. I know people who actually bot for a living and it was explained to me. As for rewarding grouping, there are other ways. This way is the opposite of punishment. It's like begging for them to exploit the system.
As for bots from separate sources syncing perfectly in their routes, it is kind of impossible with astronomical chances, since there is also the factor of players killing monsters randomly. What you say might happen if two, say, bots are the only ones in an area.Edited by South_of_Heaven on May 10, 2014 2:57PM0 -
Epona222✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭So do you actually have a Customer Support issue that needs attending to?GM - Ghost Sea Trading Co - NA PC
Epona was a Romano-Celtic goddess dating back to around 1800 to 2000 years before computer games were invented.0 -
Epona222✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭If you applied a "lots of people do it, therefore it must be OK" rule, then that would excuse you from a lot of ills.GM - Ghost Sea Trading Co - NA PC
Epona was a Romano-Celtic goddess dating back to around 1800 to 2000 years before computer games were invented.0 -
Blackwolfe5✭✭✭South_of_Heaven wrote: »
I blame ZOS, since they somehow cannot create a sensible forum layout with sensible categories.
I'd die for 2-3 extra subforums.. such as general.Edited by Blackwolfe5 on May 10, 2014 3:03PM2 -
Boneidle✭✭South_of_Heaven wrote: »So those who thought it was such a great idea, when I posted against it on the forums 1-2 years ago, because they were terrified of KS and losing a precious lewt and being psychologically scarred for life - don't you dare complain now, neither about bots being everywhere, nor about dungeon bosses and world bosses diminishing loot returns.
I wouldn't of read this post 2 years ago on the forums so I am wondering why was your post ignored 1 - 2 years ago by the game developers and the loot system kept the same. Did the community all agree with you about the loot or did the community like the loot system.
But if what you suggest is implemented then it would just result in punishing all the "normal" players as the bots would still be in a group together probably in a party of 4, but instead of numerous groups in one dungeon or 1 location those groups would be spread all over the world of Tamriel.
Even Molag Bal would look for somewhere else to invade then because the bots would of not only invaded but they would over take preventing all the normal players from completing solo dungeons or doing quests. What you suggest about making it so that quest mobs can be tagged by all but then aren't like 90% of mobs out there involved in quests?
Could you imagine trying to sort out Player A is killing mobs with quest A Player B is just killing the mobs, both get credit for it but then Player A complete quest A and then he isn't able to kill the mobs cos Player B is still killing the mobs. You obviously haven't thought out of the logistics behind the coding and how time extensive it would be.
What I would like to know is what is your problem, are you annoyed that others have levelled faster than you and you feel that this method of sharing xp and loot is the reason they have or is it that you have reached max level and you think its unfair others should get anything from killing stuff with you. Or is it that you feel that you are powerful enough to kill everything yourself and you wish people would just leave your mobs alone?
PS I am aware that from your previous replies that you are going to be extremely rude in your response to me I am already expecting that, but I feel that everything I have just said is constructive criticism which I would expect you to be ready for with you posting such a controversial topic.Edited by Boneidle on May 10, 2014 3:04PMNever retreat, If you turn and run you will only die tired.2 -
South_of_Heaven✭✭✭South_of_Heaven wrote: »So those who thought it was such a great idea, when I posted against it on the forums 1-2 years ago, because they were terrified of KS and losing a precious lewt and being psychologically scarred for life - don't you dare complain now, neither about bots being everywhere, nor about dungeon bosses and world bosses diminishing loot returns.
I wouldn't of read this post 2 years ago on the forums so I am wondering why was your post ignored 1 - 2 years ago by the game developers and the loot system kept the same. Did the community all agree with you about the loot or did the community like the loot system.
But if what you suggest is implemented then it would just result in punishing all the "normal" players as the bots would still be in a group together probably in a party of 4, but instead of numerous groups in one dungeon or 1 location those groups would be spread all over the world of Tamriel.
Even Molag Bal would look for somewhere else to invade then because the bots would of not only invaded but they would over take preventing all the normal players from completing solo dungeons or doing quests. What you suggest about making it so that quest mobs can be tagged by all but then aren't like 90% of mobs out there involved in quests?
Could you imagine trying to sort out Player A is killing mobs with quest A Player B is just killing the mobs, both get credit for it but then Player A complete quest A and then he isn't able to kill the mobs cos Player B is still killing the mobs. You obviously haven't thought out of the logistics behind the coding and how time extensive it would be.
What I would like to know is what is your problem, are you annoyed that others have levelled faster than you and you feel that this method of sharing xp and loot is the reason they have or is it that you have reached max level and you think its unfair others should get anything from killing stuff with you. Or is it that you feel that you are powerful enough to kill everything yourself and you wish people would just leave your mobs alone?
PS I am aware that from your previous replies that you are going to be extremely rude in your response to me I am already expecting that, but I feel that everything I have just said is constructive criticism which I would expect you to be ready for with you posting such a controversial topic.
No, the opposite. It's actually refreshing when people who actually have read and understood the OP reply and I welcome them even when they don't agree.
First of all, about the quest tagging - I didn't mean it in that way. The xp/loot would be the only thing that wouldn't be shared among players who hit a mob. The quest objective if two people have a quest would be completed by both. This is not more complex than they current system code-wise. If someone doesn't have the quest that the other has, both would be able to tag the mob normally and whoever tagged it would get the loot/xp. However even if the one who has the quest didn't tag it, he would still get the objective.
So the only thing that changes by this is not having one monster produce 20 times the loot for 20 separate bots that hit it at the same time. Party loot is another story but since you mentioned it, it would be the good old sharing. Even if it wasn't the good old sharing, the phenomenon we see now would be much more confined. Do you have any idea how many bots at the moment casually stack together in dungeons?
My problem, if you must know, is a game where exploits happen in abundance, where bots are everywhere and people complain about the wrong things while some others thinking that everything is going to get sorted by itself.
Edited by South_of_Heaven on May 10, 2014 3:18PM0 -
Blackwidow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭South_of_Heaven wrote: »snip
Sorry, but there are better ways to deal with bots.
No, this is not my first MMO. Yes, I read your whole OP.
@Moonraker is correct.0 -
South_of_Heaven✭✭✭Blackwidow wrote: »South_of_Heaven wrote: »snip
Sorry, but there are better ways to deal with bots.
No, this is not my first MMO. Yes, I read your whole OP.
@Moonraker is correct.
Sure, just tell me something. Are you still pissed at me for arguing about the repair costs or "you have no idea of what I am talking about"? I feel your need to make that post though and it's ok. Maybe the commando GMs will block every bot in the universe and rid the world of bots once and for all. Who knows... right?
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Blackwidow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭South_of_Heaven wrote: »
Sure, just tell me something. Are you still pissed at me for arguing about the repair costs or "you have no idea of what I am talking about"?
I honestly have no clue what you are talking about.
Are you telling me I am disagreeing with you out of spite? I'm not.I feel your need to make that post though and it's ok. Maybe the commando GMs will block every bot in the universe and rid the world of bots once and for all. Who knows... right?
You seem to be implying that it is your idea or no idea. As stated earlier, there are better ways to deal with bots.Edited by Blackwidow on May 10, 2014 3:47PM0 -
Audigy✭✭✭✭✭
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Ok,South_of_Heaven wrote: »KS = ?
If it's shared loot you have an issue with I'm not sure why. It's already tough enough for players to group for questing etc. without another barrier.
If it's bots you have an issue with they are dealing with them over time and we just keep reporting them.
If it's multi-boxing you have an issue with, well, since ZOS have not said it is against ToS then it's working as intended.
Did you understand a single word of what I wrote?
2) Nearly every bot uses multi-boxing. If multi-boxing is that profitable it is common sense the game would be filled with bots. Normal players in their majority do not multi-box. Multi-boxing is the standard for farming bots however and since it's so profitable with the shared loot/xp ESO becomes a bot paradise. Understood?
3) Yes, I can see the picture, you, in one year from now, when people complain about bots being everywhere, will keep saying, "they are dealing with it".
World of Warcraft has no shared loot and mob tagging, yet it has a much larger bot problem than ESO currently does.
You notice this especially in pvp, but also in zones with a lot of harvesting nodes and animals or humans.
This alone proves you are wrong in every single point above.
Besides that, why do you care about these bots? They do no harm to you, let them farm and let people buy these overpriced goods if they like and ZO bans both of them.
Just play your game and don't let bots influence how a game should be designed. We all saw that this didn't work at Wow and ZO is smart to not make the same mistakes like Blizzard did.1 -
South_of_Heaven✭✭✭Blackwidow wrote: »South_of_Heaven wrote: »
Sure, just tell me something. Are you still pissed at me for arguing about the repair costs or "you have no idea of what I am talking about"?
I honestly have no clue what you are talking about.
Are you telling me I am disagreeing with you out of spite? I'm not.I feel your need to make that post though and it's ok. Maybe the commando GMs will block every bot in the universe and rid the world of bots once and for all. Who knows... right?
You seem to be implying that it is your idea or no idea. As stated earlier, there are better ways to deal with bots.
Besides not making ESO a bot paradise? I bet there are.
Ok,South_of_Heaven wrote: »KS = ?
If it's shared loot you have an issue with I'm not sure why. It's already tough enough for players to group for questing etc. without another barrier.
If it's bots you have an issue with they are dealing with them over time and we just keep reporting them.
If it's multi-boxing you have an issue with, well, since ZOS have not said it is against ToS then it's working as intended.
Did you understand a single word of what I wrote?
2) Nearly every bot uses multi-boxing. If multi-boxing is that profitable it is common sense the game would be filled with bots. Normal players in their majority do not multi-box. Multi-boxing is the standard for farming bots however and since it's so profitable with the shared loot/xp ESO becomes a bot paradise. Understood?
3) Yes, I can see the picture, you, in one year from now, when people complain about bots being everywhere, will keep saying, "they are dealing with it".
World of Warcraft has no shared loot and mob tagging, yet it has a much larger bot problem than ESO currently does.
You notice this especially in pvp, but also in zones with a lot of harvesting nodes and animals or humans.
This alone proves you are wrong in every single point above.
Besides that, why do you care about these bots? They do no harm to you, let them farm and let people buy these overpriced goods if they like and ZO bans both of them.
Just play your game and don't let bots influence how a game should be designed. We all saw that this didn't work at Wow and ZO is smart to not make the same mistakes like Blizzard did.
First of all, it does not have half the problems from my experience. If you insist it does, prove it. But let's not compare games with so completely different lifespans and population.
Bots, especially multi-boxing bots, influence the game whether you like it or not. I do not need to explain how, you can see it everywhere in the forums and patch notes.Edited by South_of_Heaven on May 10, 2014 3:55PM0 -
Moonraker✭✭✭✭
No.South_of_Heaven wrote: »Did you understand a single word of what I wrote?
What's a mmorpgs? I saw a player with that name the other day in a dungeon, standing by a boss. Some sort of troll?Edited by Moonraker on May 10, 2014 4:01PM2 -
Blackwolfe5✭✭✭Bots in other mmorpgs are more spread out, but since we only have one big megaserver for EU/NA each, well..
GW2 have gotten rid of most of the bots , but still has shared loot/xp.Edited by Blackwolfe5 on May 10, 2014 4:07PM0 -
Blackwidow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭South_of_Heaven wrote: »Besides not making ESO a bot paradise? I bet there are.
I don't know what that means.1 -
Rotherhans✭✭✭Absolutely nothing in OPs post makes sense, not even the high horse arrogance.
“I'm not going out of my way looking for devils;
but I wouldn't step out of my path to let one go by.”― Robert E. Howard3 -
South_of_Heaven✭✭✭Rotherhans wrote: »Absolutely nothing in OPs post makes sense, not even the high horse arrogance.
Haha then I guess some people are just better at comprehending than others, considering how some gave me perfectly valid answers above.
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Blackwidow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭South_of_Heaven wrote: »Haha then I guess some people are just better at comprehending than others, considering how some gave me perfectly valid answers above.
You do know all those people were telling you were wrong, right?0
