Hold up. While Necromancers are indeed quite neglected, I'm not really seeing all these awesome changes for the other classes - outside of PvP Nightblades and DKs maybe (how old is poop rock?).
Wardens remain quite disjointed except for an incredible heal, with Stamina Wardens non-existing; Sorcerers got some love this patch but still share horribly outdated and lackluster passives with Templars, which were reduced to beam-monkeys. In endgame PvE, Nightblades are still invisible (heh).

Looking at the history of ZOS' class changes, one gets the impression that a certain dev is championing PvP nightblades, and Arcanist was similarly someone's pet project ("Give me a class that makes the game as trivial as possible, oh and make it Herma Mora themed, that's my favorite Prince!"). Point being I don't think there's anyone at ZOS that plays Necromancer, or Warden, or Templar.

With the outright bloody deletion of the main Necromancer skill, ZOS has demonstrated it doesn't shy away from drastic measures. Great! It's time for some drastic class overhaul to bring all classes to the level of cohesion and capability of Arcanists. Get to it ZOS, I won't give you another 10 years.

The accessibility class has moved on to Arcanist and soon back to Sorc, why should they care about Necromancer lol?

So far ZOS has actively made the class worse and ignored the feedback presented by seasoned necro players that have stuck with the class for hundreds, if not thousands of hours.

As soon as this new SuckBones skill was announced in week 1 I personally could immediately see countless issues with it. Yet a group of devs who should know the game inside and out apparently could not. Either they're making the class worse on purpose for some reason, or they're seriously clueless as to how necro works.

The """"""buff"""""" they made to Blighted Blastbones by giving it guaranteed Diseased procs and the tiny changes they made to SuckBones (which resulted in it being nerfed before it even hit live) just reinforces my stance that they're having a laugh at necro players' expense. Well, if this is the kind of devs we have then I think it's only fair that we necros play the same tune and have a grand ol' laugh by quitting the game altogether en masse.

C_Inside wrote: »

So far ZOS has actively made the class worse and ignored the feedback presented by seasoned necro players that have stuck with the class for hundreds, if not thousands of hours.

As soon as this new SuckBones skill was announced in week 1 I personally could immediately see countless issues with it. Yet a group of devs who should know the game inside and out apparently could not. Either they're making the class worse on purpose for some reason, or they're seriously clueless as to how necro works.

The """"""buff"""""" they made to Blighted Blastbones by giving it guaranteed Diseased procs and the tiny changes they made to SuckBones (which resulted in it being nerfed before it even hit live) just reinforces my stance that they're having a laugh at necro players' expense. Well, if this is the kind of devs we have then I think it's only fair that we necros play the same tune and have a grand ol' laugh by quitting the game altogether en masse.

The current combat team clearly doesn’t understand necro and what the class struggles with. That would be fine if they just listened to the feedback, but they seem too stubborn to go back on their bad design choices.

A pattern of blatant disregard for necromancer players.

ftfy

Aldoss wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

Hold up. While Necromancers are indeed quite neglected, I'm not really seeing all these awesome changes for the other classes - outside of PvP Nightblades and DKs maybe (how old is poop rock?).
Wardens remain quite disjointed except for an incredible heal, with Stamina Wardens non-existing; Sorcerers got some love this patch but still share horribly outdated and lackluster passives with Templars, which were reduced to beam-monkeys. In endgame PvE, Nightblades are still invisible (heh).

I don't play PvE, but I know plenty of high dps wardens. You just might not recognize them as stamina because they all fall within the new hybrid meta.

the issue with warden in pve is its abysmal sustain and lack of access to its own class utility, it's damage could be higher if it could sustain it i suppose, but natures gift is terrible, and we can't apply minor toughness well at all outside of consistently popping a healing orb if everyone is stacked on synergy cooldown. hell, we can't even use our class's unique aoe major resolve since it literally does nothing to contribute on a damage dealer.

damage is not everything in pve. but you at least need to deal enough with the others to compete on top of providing something to the group. warden does not do this at the highest end.

we aren't even unique as far as brittle application goes, as tanks and supports have always been able to do it as well as now arcanists can for some reason.

I feel like the harmony bomb and shock heavy attack builds were rightfully nerfed, but those 2 setups were really the only threats when it came to Necro and have been gone since like 2022? Bashcro seems to be the only viable way to play them in pvp, and any time I see that ult pop up I just walk away until it's over. Waste of time trying to kill a raid boss without a raid team.

I feel for you guys, I tried my best with GLS and they somehow made it worse than week 1. It doesn't take a Necro main, nor a game developer, nor a rocket scientist to understand the issues the class has with its current design and the proposed reworks. I can't help but feel they put an intern in charge of GLS/BB this patch.

They need to spend all of update 43 (the no content update) redoing all the classes from the ground up. Reevaluate what classes should be good at, what is their identity, does their design achieve that, are they fun to play, are they fun to build for, do they feel different from other classes?

To those questions the only real answer is: Dragonknight.

They don't need proc sets to be competitive. It has really good passives all around that play well with the skills. It has a clear design philosophy between fire damage, poison damage, unique effects, named debuffs/buffs, melee skills, dots, ult gen, ult for sustain, every ult does something useful for many different builds, sustain off status effects. Decent or awesome in almost every role across pve/pvp.

DK's aren't perfect, but they're about as close as it can be right now.. Some underutilized skill morphs and some skills like Poop Fist are still a bit awkward, but all in all, it should be the standard at which all classes are brought up to.

NB's just a mess. They keep getting more and more buffs where they don't need them. Everyone asks for pve help, something unique to bring to the table, better aoe dps, and instead, they give them handouts like the new Siphoning Attacks in a patch that was meant to focus on Sorc and to some extent Necro.

• Templar feels bland, many dead skills and passives. No difference between playstyles or stam vs mag.
• Necro doesn't know what it wants to be, is it an elementalist without a status effect bonus eg. Arcanist? Is it a dot class without dots? Is it a summoner without summons?
• Warden is a mixed bag, some of the best one man army type of skills that do multiple things with crucial named buffs/debuffs, but so many skills are bland or have clear morph winners. Why isn't all the damage bleed/frost? Why isn't there a bleed passive? Why is there so much focus on Frost Staves as if stam doesn't matter? Why are they so tied to a bear ult that doesn't work in 80% of content? Crit damage passive, why, damage done was perfect?
• Arcanist is overloaded and too simplistic with some of the highest aoe dps in the game for the easiest rotation trivializing most content.. Why is their debuff skill better than their actual spammable? Why does it generate crux, heal, imobilize, debuff, and execute? What is the point of using other abilities when you can beam everything?

Sorc is just below DK imo, any changes I want are largely focussed on bar space problems, cleaning up dead passives, power fantasy, updating underwhelming skills like Fury/Lightning Splash, and buffing pve no pet sorc. Nothing that would increase their pvp potential by too much because they're decent there, although some would argue thats when tied to overperforming sets. Pve pet dps is good, just bad aoe dps.

ZoS capable of communicating. <snip> Scribing is the new rage and looks like they need to focus on everyone being happy with that. You would think with all the money they make from the crown store they could afford to hire more devs to work on multiple features.

<snipped for Profanity/Cursing>

In every one of my multiple ESO discords, necromancer is always clowned on as the pay to lose class. 🪦

Could have had stalking BB as it was. And instead have it so when a bone is in use then dot damage is increased.

This is just the usual MO. When Warden first came out- it was extremely overpowered and ZOS started tuning it down when Necromancer came out. When Necromancer was overpowered- ZOS started tuning it down when Arcanist came out. Arcanist will start getting tuned down when the next class comes out.

It's the circle of life.

necro_the_crafter wrote: »

brandsnipe wrote: »

The biggest problem is they dont know what they want the class to be. They're pushing it as a DoT class, but its not designed that way. If they would just own up to it and build the class to how its designed, itd be a dominant class. But instead we have a clunky corpse mechanic that doesnt tie into a DoT class.

I guess that promblem is - ZOS dont really care about the necro, becuse its not a popular class.
And its not a popular class - becuse ZOS dont really care about it.

That's been exactly the same problem BGs have had with ZOS

Would be great if ZoS could communicate out lack of changes when there is so much anger at the recent change they made.

MashmalloMan wrote: »

I feel like the harmony bomb and shock heavy attack builds were rightfully nerfed, but those 2 setups were really the only threats when it came to Necro and have been gone since like 2022? Bashcro seems to be the only viable way to play them in pvp, and any time I see that ult pop up I just walk away until it's over. Waste of time trying to kill a raid boss without a raid team.

I feel for you guys, I tried my best with GLS and they somehow made it worse than week 1. It doesn't take a Necro main, nor a game developer, nor a rocket scientist to understand the issues the class has with its current design and the proposed reworks. I can't help but feel they put an intern in charge of GLS/BB this patch.

They need to spend all of update 43 (the no content update) redoing all the classes from the ground up. Reevaluate what classes should be good at, what is their identity, does their design achieve that, are they fun to play, are they fun to build for, do they feel different from other classes?

To those questions the only real answer is: Dragonknight.

They don't need proc sets to be competitive. It has really good passives all around that play well with the skills. It has a clear design philosophy between fire damage, poison damage, unique effects, named debuffs/buffs, melee skills, dots, ult gen, ult for sustain, every ult does something useful for many different builds, sustain off status effects. Decent or awesome in almost every role across pve/pvp.

DK's aren't perfect, but they're about as close as it can be right now.. Some underutilized skill morphs and some skills like Poop Fist are still a bit awkward, but all in all, it should be the standard at which all classes are brought up to.

NB's just a mess. They keep getting more and more buffs where they don't need them. Everyone asks for pve help, something unique to bring to the table, better aoe dps, and instead, they give them handouts like the new Siphoning Attacks in a patch that was meant to focus on Sorc and to some extent Necro.

• Templar feels bland, many dead skills and passives. No difference between playstyles or stam vs mag.
• Necro doesn't know what it wants to be, is it an elementalist without a status effect bonus eg. Arcanist? Is it a dot class without dots? Is it a summoner without summons?
• Warden is a mixed bag, some of the best one man army type of skills that do multiple things with crucial named buffs/debuffs, but so many skills are bland or have clear morph winners. Why isn't all the damage bleed/frost? Why isn't there a bleed passive? Why is there so much focus on Frost Staves as if stam doesn't matter? Why are they so tied to a bear ult that doesn't work in 80% of content? Crit damage passive, why, damage done was perfect?
• Arcanist is overloaded and too simplistic with some of the highest aoe dps in the game for the easiest rotation trivializing most content.. Why is their debuff skill better than their actual spammable? Why does it generate crux, heal, imobilize, debuff, and execute? What is the point of using other abilities when you can beam everything?

Sorc is just below DK imo, any changes I want are largely focussed on bar space problems, cleaning up dead passives, power fantasy, updating underwhelming skills like Fury/Lightning Splash, and buffing pve no pet sorc. Nothing that would increase their pvp potential by too much because they're decent there, although some would argue thats when tied to overperforming sets. Pve pet dps is good, just bad aoe dps.

I agree with a lot of this. The issue with the harmony bomb nerf though was that after ZOS nerfed harmony they also nerfed the self synergy Graverobber which was double dipping and killed it. They didn’t need to touch Graverobber after the harmony nerf.

And about Necro being directionally challenged I completely agree. They tried so hard for Necro to not be what other games did with Necro that it’s just confusing. So many elemental damage types and no status effect bonus, no sticky dots but has a dot bonus. Corpse mechanic is kind of weird. The class truly needs a major overhaul with theme and abilities.

And with that Arcanist ink ability I agree. Honestly I feel it’s a simple fix… put the heal on that Inspiration ability so it does a heal when it expires and put the execute part on the Imperfect Ring ability so that it is a little better. Spreads things out.

Necromancer is ESO's biggest failure. It is laughably bad.
And of course, it just HAD to happen to the class I had always wanted to play.
I miss when it first launched. It had problems, but there was hope that it would see future improvements. However, it did not. It was allllll downhill from there.
Now it is at the bottom of the hill, a broken and ridiculous mess that barely even functions.
No point giving further feedback, it won't be acknowledged. The class is beyond saving.