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If you can't handle the bots...
ElliottXO
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...then restore mandatory starter islands, which you cannot leave/teleport out before finishing the quest line.
I have no idea why this step was made in the first place anyway. Because some AngryJoe whatsoever critisized this? Seriously?
95% of the players go back to the starter islands anyway and the other 5% probably don't know they even exist.
ZOS is getting its ass handed by the bots. At least force them to stay there, if you already gave up banning them.
I have no idea why this step was made in the first place anyway. Because some AngryJoe whatsoever critisized this? Seriously?
95% of the players go back to the starter islands anyway and the other 5% probably don't know they even exist.
ZOS is getting its ass handed by the bots. At least force them to stay there, if you already gave up banning them.
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The companies would only pay some players to level through that content then activate the bot program where they want.
Your solution would only make it a little harder to get going.0 -
ElliottXO✭✭✭✭✭IronMaiden_burnout wrote: »The companies would only pay some players to level through that content then activate the bot program where they want.
Your solution would only make it a little harder to get going.
A little bit harder? I can promise you this measure would drop the bot population outside of the starter island by more than 95%.
It takes hours to finish the quest line. And if you invest that time and still get banned afterwards it really hurts the botter.
Right now their bots are directly jumping into profit after creation.11 -
Incarnatus✭✭✭Seems like a good suggestion to me .... Perhaps this is something Zenimax could do without too much trouble? Let's face it only a complete fool would prefer more bots instead, right?4
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KerinKor✭✭✭✭✭
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Sorry, there's no other word to use here: clueless.A little bit harder? I can promise you this measure would drop the bot population outside of the starter island by more than 95%.
Even playing 'normally' one can complete the starters in an hour, botting even quicker, that's no handicap at all for RMT.
Edited by KerinKor on May 10, 2014 11:41AM0 -
ElliottXO✭✭✭✭✭
It's not a speculation. It's a promise. You can also take it as a sacred oath if you prefer.5 -
Loxy37✭✭✭✭IronMaiden_burnout wrote: »The companies would only pay some players to level through that content then activate the bot program where they want.
Your solution would only make it a little harder to get going.
A little bit harder? I can promise you this measure would drop the bot population outside of the starter island by more than 95%.
It takes hours to finish the quest line. And if you invest that time and still get banned afterwards it really hurts the botter.
Right now their bots are directly jumping into profit after creation.
This is completely wrong! Have you not seen the teleporting bots that port to mobs, kill mobs, port to quest NPC, hand in, rinse and repeat? Confining them to the starter zone will just make those dead areas for everyone even if we didn't have those teleporting bots. I think you seriously underestimate how clever these prigrams are and with the added abilities to script in anything they want, the possibilities are endless!
ZOS have already lost the battle and its now just about damage limitations.0 -
ElliottXO✭✭✭✭✭
Sorry, there's no other word to use here: clueless.A little bit harder? I can promise you this measure would drop the bot population outside of the starter island by more than 95%.
Even playing 'normally' one can complete the starters in an hour, botting even quicker, that's no handicap at all for RMT.
1 hour, 2 hours, 6 hours. Does it matter? It's still more than the current 5 seconds to get to coldharbour.
And what is the off-trade? That you cannot directly use your banking alt? Because I'm certain your main characters have done the starter islands anyway.0 -
ElliottXO✭✭✭✭✭IronMaiden_burnout wrote: »The companies would only pay some players to level through that content then activate the bot program where they want.
Your solution would only make it a little harder to get going.
A little bit harder? I can promise you this measure would drop the bot population outside of the starter island by more than 95%.
It takes hours to finish the quest line. And if you invest that time and still get banned afterwards it really hurts the botter.
Right now their bots are directly jumping into profit after creation.
This is completely wrong! Have you not seen the teleporting bots that port to mobs, kill mobs, port to quest NPC, hand in, rinse and repeat? Confining them to the starter zone will just make those dead areas for everyone even if we didn't have those teleporting bots. I think you seriously underestimate how clever these prigrams are and with the added abilities to script in anything they want, the possibilities are endless!
ZOS have already lost the battle and its now just about damage limitations.
Writing that script for the whole starter islands is far more complex. I don't think they will be able to write it at all.0 -
Incarnatus✭✭✭
Sorry, there's no other word to use here: clueless.A little bit harder? I can promise you this measure would drop the bot population outside of the starter island by more than 95%.
Even playing 'normally' one can complete the starters in an hour, botting even quicker, that's no handicap at all for RMT.
The other word to use here is: excellent.
In fact ANY suggestion that delays a bots progress is: a jolly good idea.
Bot supporters please exit ESO along with the bots .....
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Big_Bob✭✭✭I agree. I've beta tested the game months ago and starting from the starter islands did help players learn a thing or two about the game as well as keep newbies confined to an area until they're more familiar with the game. In theory this should also help keep all the farm bots from going into the mainlands and spreading across to other zones.
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Lox✭✭✭
It's not a speculation. It's a promise. You can also take it as a sacred oath if you prefer.
The point is, this is nothing more than speculation and/or your opinion. Putting 'I promise' in it doesn't make it a fact.2 -
75% of all statistics on the internet are made up by posters on Forums.
Got the irony of that sentence?
Bots in Coldharbor actually show that the solution of the OP wont work. Coldharbor is something that you would have to do the full main quest to get into legally. So how do the bots get in there?
a) Port hack (I am astonished that ZOS cannot immediately ban port hackers btw. Should be as easy as "If player location changes more than a ridable distance per minute and if a port stone does not exist at origin and or destination, ban"
b) Port to player (can do that even on friend list). Or they just randomly invite 1000 players. a couple are bound to accept an unsolicited invite. port to that player and boom the bot is in a new zone.7 -
ElliottXO✭✭✭✭✭
It's not a speculation. It's a promise. You can also take it as a sacred oath if you prefer.
The point is, this is nothing more than speculation and/or your opinion. Putting 'I promise' in it doesn't make it a fact.
Are you seriously asking me for an empiric study on this topic? Of course this number is made up. A monkey with a half brain realizes that.
Are there no grammar mistakes in my post that you could correct instead?4 -
ElliottXO✭✭✭✭✭stefanroeth123neb18_ESO wrote: »75% of all statistics on the internet are made up by posters on Forums.
Got the irony of that sentence?
Bots in Coldharbor actually show that the solution of the OP wont work. Coldharbor is something that you would have to do the full main quest to get into legally. So how do the bots get in there?
a) Port hack (I am astonished that ZOS cannot immediately ban port hackers btw. Should be as easy as "If player location changes more than a ridable distance per minute and if a port stone does not exist at origin and or destination, ban"
b) Port to player (can do that even on friend list). Or they just randomly invite 1000 players. a couple are bound to accept an unsolicited invite. port to that player and boom the bot is in a new zone.
It's b) They are porting to another bot who stands at the wayshrine.
As written in my first sentence they just need to add a limitation: no teleporting out of the starting area before finishing the quest line.
Even if I would've not posted it. Do you really have no imagination to figure out such an obvious thing that you rather post: "it won't work"?0 -
Loxy37✭✭✭✭IronMaiden_burnout wrote: »The companies would only pay some players to level through that content then activate the bot program where they want.
Your solution would only make it a little harder to get going.
A little bit harder? I can promise you this measure would drop the bot population outside of the starter island by more than 95%.
It takes hours to finish the quest line. And if you invest that time and still get banned afterwards it really hurts the botter.
Right now their bots are directly jumping into profit after creation.
This is completely wrong! Have you not seen the teleporting bots that port to mobs, kill mobs, port to quest NPC, hand in, rinse and repeat? Confining them to the starter zone will just make those dead areas for everyone even if we didn't have those teleporting bots. I think you seriously underestimate how clever these prigrams are and with the added abilities to script in anything they want, the possibilities are endless!
ZOS have already lost the battle and its now just about damage limitations.
Writing that script for the whole starter islands is far more complex. I don't think they will be able to write it at all.
Well scripting is my speciality its not that hard + they use a collective of scripts that many people have wrote. They buy the program or pirate it, whatever and then finding scripts is easy. Have you ever seen the bots port in to hand quests in? I've seen them at level 3 in a level 40 area, port in by the 100s all following the same script. If the solution was so simple then why do you think so many games have the issue of bots?
They could level lock areas but then the go anywhere, do anything mantra would be out the window. They could level lock the first few zones but then the bots would adapt. They are like viruses and the mods are like antibiotics. They kill a few but soon they get resistant (adapt) and before long there's no way to stop them and sadly Zenimax have had no effect what so ever on the bot problem. I feel that this problem alone will be the death of ESO or at the very least, its path to the dark side (FTP).
A better solution is what I have proposed all along. Make high level tempers bound to character and make gold worth nothing at all. Make it so that a player buy stuff with bound tokens if they want to buy from a vendor, only use gold for reps and basic stuff that everyone can get cheap. Having a horse cost 45k gold is just like asking and begging the bots to ruin your game!
Zenimax are new at MMOs but they have some vets of the industry on their team + they must have consulted on this very thing many times. The only thing I can think of is that Zenimax didn't listen or there was something else like backers making all the decisions. Very bad decisions were made in the development of this game that any vet of the MMO industry or any vet player can see, so why didn't they?Edited by Loxy37 on May 10, 2014 3:41PM5 -
This is a major issue. My friends waited for the game, just like me. I've been waiting for years. The reason my friends all quit: Where the *** is the starting zone. I love all 3 zones. People who haven't played beta don't know where the starting zones are (most of them don't read). And the first experience they get is a long boring quest grind in a city. After that they see lot's of bots = THEY QUIT THE GAME.
Alos, I like your post up here Loxy.1 -
Audigy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭You may laugh, but back in the days I did recommend that internet gaming only works with a solid person bound ID. Once that ID is banned due botting, cheating or harassment you cant play online anymore.
Guess how the internet would clean up, if everyone would have an account based on his ID. People would think twice if they insult someone in a forum, think twice if they use a bot or a cheat.
We discussed this in a gaming related show and while back then people felt it was not necessary and would be too much CIA stuff, maybe its worth a new discussion these days.
I wouldn't mind it still, but I am also a very honest person and play after the rules
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GrimCyclone✭✭✭✭✭It isn't our job to do their job for them. They're a company. There are several mmos to research from. They have a team working for them. If they can't figure this out then shame on them period. What good is wasting my time telling a bunch of incompetent grown men who are paid professionals how to structure content to prevent exploitation. If they can't do that after this long then me telling them how isn't going to help anyway. The sad thing is, the primary skill of the programmer is problem solving.4 -
Loxy37✭✭✭✭You may laugh, but back in the days I did recommend that internet gaming only works with a solid person bound ID. Once that ID is banned due botting, cheating or harassment you cant play online anymore.
Guess how the internet would clean up, if everyone would have an account based on his ID. People would think twice if they insult someone in a forum, think twice if they use a bot or a cheat.
We discussed this in a gaming related show and while back then people felt it was not necessary and would be too much CIA stuff, maybe its worth a new discussion these days.
I wouldn't mind it still, but I am also a very honest person and play after the rules
While I can see your point, it would be open to abuse I think. I wouldn't want a system like that to be honest. I won't go into details because any discussion on conspiracy is outlawed on the forums but all I will say is NSA/Snowden, cough!
Best way is make it so everything of value is bound. Make all gear other than crafted, bound, motifs, tempers and completely devalue gold! Make it so the horse is level locked to ten and can only be bought with earned tokens. Make any rewards from PvP, bought via tokens. Look at other games and create a happy medium. Nerfing and shifting the cancer from one place to another is just hurting the legitimate person and most legit player won't mind buying or finding their own motifs/tempers and the likes. They could even up the drop rates because once earned the others would be vendor trash.
Make guild stores so that stuff can be bought with earned/none tradeable currency. Award such credits for helping people, quests, dungeons, rifts (erm I meant anchors) and even for mini games like drinking contests (nord) and others. The possibilities ate endless.
These steps would end bots but you know why these companies all won't do it? Because those bots pay the bills just like you and me. If anyone says anything else then please say why they don't stop them because I can only think of the Great American Dollar that wins out every time. Shame that money always screws up everything, including MMOs!
Edit: the part about guild stores would still be abused but it could be worked out, I don't have all the answers I'm sure though that a multi million dollar games company can work it out if they put their minds too it. Zenimax probably are working on it and what we have seen so far is more of a bandaid until they roll out the cure! Edited by Loxy37 on May 10, 2014 4:55PM2 -
ElliottXO✭✭✭✭✭IronMaiden_burnout wrote: »The companies would only pay some players to level through that content then activate the bot program where they want.
Your solution would only make it a little harder to get going.
A little bit harder? I can promise you this measure would drop the bot population outside of the starter island by more than 95%.
It takes hours to finish the quest line. And if you invest that time and still get banned afterwards it really hurts the botter.
Right now their bots are directly jumping into profit after creation.
This is completely wrong! Have you not seen the teleporting bots that port to mobs, kill mobs, port to quest NPC, hand in, rinse and repeat? Confining them to the starter zone will just make those dead areas for everyone even if we didn't have those teleporting bots. I think you seriously underestimate how clever these prigrams are and with the added abilities to script in anything they want, the possibilities are endless!
ZOS have already lost the battle and its now just about damage limitations.
Writing that script for the whole starter islands is far more complex. I don't think they will be able to write it at all.
Well scripting is my speciality its not that hard + they use a collective of scripts that many people have wrote. They buy the program or pirate it, whatever and then finding scripts is easy. Have you ever seen the bots port in to hand quests in? I've seen them at level 3 in a level 40 area, port in by the 100s all following the same script. If the solution was so simple then why do you think so many games have the issue of bots?
They could level lock areas but then the go anywhere, do anything mantra would be out the window. They could level lock the first few zones but then the bots would adapt. They are like viruses and the mods are like antibiotics. They kill a few but soon they get resistant (adapt) and before long there's no way to stop them and sadly Zenimax have had no effect what so ever on the bot problem. I feel that this problem alone will be the death of ESO or at the very least, its path to the dark side (FTP).
A better solution is what I have proposed all along. Make high level tempers bound to character and make gold worth nothing at all. Make it so that a player buy stuff with bound tokens if they want to buy from a vendor, only use gold for reps and basic stuff that everyone can get cheap. Having a horse cost 45k gold is just like asking and begging the bots to ruin your game!
Zenimax are new at MMOs but they have some vets of the industry on their team + they must have consulted on this very thing many times. The only thing I can think of is that Zenimax didn't listen or there was something else like backers making all the decisions. Very bad decisions were made in the development of this game that any vet of the MMO industry or any vet player can see, so why didn't they?
The bots I've seen follow like 30 or 50 consecutive commands. To finish the quest line in one run you probably need more than 1000. I really cannot imagine it's that easy.
I also know better and more efficient ideas. The beauty of this one: it's already there. They just need to add one single limitation that you cannot teleport out before finishing the quest line and restore the old mandatory status from beta.
And what is the drawback? Explain to me: how does this change hurt or limit you?
Heck, even if the write a script that can finish the whole quest line in one go within one hour. It's still one hour more before a freshly created bot arrives on coldharbour.1 -
Sakiri✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭CH bots are easier. Level lock Coldharbour to 45. Done.
Grind bots will still get there but the level 3 shriven bots wont.1 -
Ranger✭✭With every mmo that's been made that has this gold farm/sell problem, I am amazed that zen didn't see this coming. There are a couple games that have been able to avoid these problems altogether but it appears zen did not do theyre home work.
sad1 -
Sakiri✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭EQ2 did it with live monitoring and Guides could respond to and pull GMs for bot kickings. ><4 -
Ranger✭✭EQ2 did it with live monitoring and Guides could respond to and pull GMs for bot kickings. ><
Ya but why hire GM's when you can code the problem away forever. Lots of ways to do it but the first thing that comes to mind is bind gold to player and make it non tradable, used for purchases only.
Edited: k nvm seems I played a game with that feature and gold sellers would just buy a white item from you in trade for the amount you purchased.
Edited by Ranger on May 10, 2014 8:05PM1 -
AlliN✭✭✭Lots of ways to do it but the first thing that comes to mind is bind gold to player and make it non tradable, used for purchases only.
Would be a good thing, yes, but it's too late for that. Now they don't sell gold as a main source of profit (prices dropped a lot), but legendary upgrade materials, motiffs daedra hearts etc, things that don't raise flag in mail system.
And that all thanks to ZERO response to infinite nodes exploit.0 -
Sakiri✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Path of least resistance. There's not a single game thats coded them away. EQ2 doesnt have much of a farm rmt market, I havent seen bots in years, and theres 0 chat spam.2 -
RedTalon✭✭✭✭✭
✭They should make a dreadic prince of spam and bots for us to beat on instead.
The funny thing is when the justice goes into effects and bots start stealing things and given players can be guards we can really have some fun with bots then.0 -
Ranger✭✭Path of least resistance. There's not a single game thats coded them away. EQ2 doesnt have much of a farm rmt market, I havent seen bots in years, and theres 0 chat spam.
The only game I've played recently that doesn't have gold sellers is Neverwinter, because it has multiple currencies that are not tradable.
However you can use cash shop ( zen ) and convert to astral diamonds which is used for AH.
No need for gold sellers when you can just buy from the devs. lol
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