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Nightblade Leeching Attacks/Siphoning Strikes Feedback

Caecus0
Caecus0
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Hello all,

I just wanted to give my thoughts to the community and the Devs on Siphoning Strikes and Leeching Attacks. To summarize, I mostly like the change and the aim to remove the minutia from gameplay.

However, I do have 1 request: could we possibly have a better way to track charges on skills, such as Spectral Bow and the Siphoning Strikes Morph? Right now they, and others like them, show their charges on our "Permanent" buffs. To be frank, I typically do not keep my Permanent Buffs turned on because there are a bunch on there that I don't need to clog up my buff bar because I know they are there. I know this isn't a big deal, and I know some addons could probably do this, but I have had issues with addons in the past so I don't really like being reliant on them. Even Spectral Bow happens often enough that you can basically time it, and the fact it makes a sound effect makes it even easier to manage without turning on your permanent buffs. Siphoning Stikes, however doesn't do this. It makes keeping track of it a bit difficult.

As for the comparison between the morphs, I am starting to think that if it weren't for the micromanaging of Siphoning Strikes, it would be the superior.

Here is the way I am looking at it: Over the course of 10 seconds, each morph will generate resources as long as you are consistently doing damage.

The base form will just heal you for around 1400 per hit, and activating it will sacrifice 4000 health for 2000 of each resource (totaling 4000). This skill essentially treats health in equal value to resources.

Leeching Attacks will heal you for a total of approximately 14000 hp, while restoring a total of 4000 resources (magicka and stamina), totaling 18000 resources. Activating it will then give a total of 5200 resources at the cost of 4000 health. If you do this at the 10 seconds mark, you would have gained 10000 hp but gained 9200 resources, totaling 19200 resources.

With Siphong Strikes it's a bit different. With the increased healing per hit, it will heal for a total of 19000 hp, but with no resources gain. However, with its 10 charges making it free, it will also restore 4000 resources (2000 of each) and cost no health, totaling 23000 resources.

Even if you decide to just not use the active on either morph, Siphoning Strikes still restores 19000 health while Leeching Attacks restores a total of 18000 (14000hp + 2000 mag + 2000 stam). It just puts Siphoning Strikes in the lead if you treat health in equal value to resources. This particularly important in PvP where resources are worth half as much because you do 1/2 the damage and healing, but the health cost of skills remains the same, making the 4k health cost that much more potent.

However, I think the only thing keeping them in balance with eachother is because we know that healing skills exchange significantly less resources for a lot more health. One Such example is Healthy Offering exchanging Magicka for almost 3 times as much health. Even in PvP where healing and damage is reduced by 1/2, it may still push them closer to balance. I have been playing around with both and I mostly feel like Leeching Attacks feels better in PvE while Siphoning Strikes WOULD feel better in PvP if the charges were easier to track.

What does the rest of the playerbase think?
  • tsaescishoeshiner
    tsaescishoeshiner
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    I don't use the buff icons, but it would make sense to show the stacks with non-permanent buffs. If it doesn't already get a special glow/highlight when at max stacks, it probably should. I'm also a fan of sounds (like Grim Focus/Crystal Frags/Crux Counter addon) because the game is so visually busy in intense combat.
    PC-NA
    in-game: @tsaescishoeshiner
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  • Necrotech_Master
    Necrotech_Master
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    i think you have the morphs backwards

    leeching strikes is the one thats free after 10 stacks of dealing dmg, but gives more heal per second

    siphoning strikes is the one that gives resources back while dealing dmg, and more resources back on use of the skill


    i personally like leeching strikes because of the higher heal per second amount, and i dont feel like i need the sustain too much but it does help that i can hit it every 10 sec for some extra resources without the health cost (using this on a pvp focused toon)

    if i was doing pve more then i would use siphoning strikes for the sustain without hitting the skill, so im not losing the GCD hitting the skill and can focus more on dealing dmg while having the better sustain
    plays PC/NA
    handle @Necrotech_Master
    active player since april 2014
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  • Caecus0
    Caecus0
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    i think you have the morphs backwards

    leeching strikes is the one thats free after 10 stacks of dealing dmg, but gives more heal per second

    siphoning strikes is the one that gives resources back while dealing dmg, and more resources back on use of the skill


    i personally like leeching strikes because of the higher heal per second amount, and i dont feel like i need the sustain too much but it does help that i can hit it every 10 sec for some extra resources without the health cost (using this on a pvp focused toon)

    if i was doing pve more then i would use siphoning strikes for the sustain without hitting the skill, so im not losing the GCD hitting the skill and can focus more on dealing dmg while having the better sustain

    Yeah I did get them backwards. I for some reason thought Leeching Strikes was the blue one and Siphoning was the red one.
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  • Caecus0
    Caecus0
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    i think you have the morphs backwards

    leeching strikes is the one thats free after 10 stacks of dealing dmg, but gives more heal per second

    siphoning strikes is the one that gives resources back while dealing dmg, and more resources back on use of the skill


    i personally like leeching strikes because of the higher heal per second amount, and i dont feel like i need the sustain too much but it does help that i can hit it every 10 sec for some extra resources without the health cost (using this on a pvp focused toon)

    if i was doing pve more then i would use siphoning strikes for the sustain without hitting the skill, so im not losing the GCD hitting the skill and can focus more on dealing dmg while having the better sustain

    I have been messing with them both and PvP and I have thoughts.

    Siphoning Strikes (the Blue one) passive definitely makes me feel like I have to pop it a lot less for resources, and when I do, the resource gain is significant. However, the health drain often puts me in an odd spot. It tends to work out when fights last a long time and the target I'm fighting isn't really in a spot to damage me (not to say they aren't a threat. Just not in a position to damage me). I often find myself needing to heal a bunch after using it which sometimes makes it feel like I'm only really gaining one resource depending on the heal I use. You don't have to micromanage this morph at all. You could basically never use the active on this morph and you'd probably be fine. Coincidentally, this morph gains value the more you spam the active due to the resource return being higher than the health, whereas the other morph breaks even if you don't have charges.

    Leeching Strikes (the Red one) feels ALOT better in terms of survivability. The extra healing doesn't feel like a ton but it is definitely noticeable not just in long fights but in fights where you just need to squeeze a little bit more healing when you are engaging, which may be important for NBs. Not only that, but when I do use the active, I don't feel the need to pop a heal to make up for it. I sometimes feel like I miss the resource gain from Siphoning, but I can always just pop Leeching twice and get twice as much resources for half the health cost. One thing I urge people to get the hang of on this morph is not to worry that you DON'T have 10 charges if you need resources. Just pop it when you need it. Conversely, don't let it sit at 10 charges for too long, especially if neither of your resource bars are full. Just get the value out of it. But in short, the often free resource regen combined with the extra bit of healing can be pretty lifesaving.

    I'll play around with it more, but so far it feels like this: If you are a tankier NB who requires resources for drawn out fights, go Siphoning. If you are a bit squisher and value the health more, go Leeching. I tend to go in and out of fights a lot so Leeching definitely feels better for me (although it's possible it's just the better PvP morph).
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  • Necrotech_Master
    Necrotech_Master
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    i went with leeching because the passive healing was almost double

    so thinking about pvp, the siphoning strikes was like maybe 1300-1400 heal before battle spirit, or about 600-700 heal per sec in pvp environment

    leeching strikes unbuffed was like 1900-2000 heal per sec before battle spirit, so with battle spirit it would be like around 1000 heal per sec, which can make a difference, and of course the free cast every 10 sec on an already health limited character (stamblade does not have great healing, i uses dark cloak and vigor to heal, no real burst heals lol)
    plays PC/NA
    handle @Necrotech_Master
    active player since april 2014
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  • yadibroz
    yadibroz
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    NB need a overtime healing that is area and same goes for templar
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  • Caecus0
    Caecus0
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    yadibroz wrote: »
    NB need a overtime healing that is area and same goes for templar

    Refreshing Path (Path of Shadows Morph).

    It's actually one of the better ones in the game. It heals fairly well, grants Major Expedition and some recovery. The only downside is that it is rectangle instead of a circle. It can make placement tricky at times, but don't be fooled. It is a very strong skill.
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  • Caecus0
    Caecus0
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    i went with leeching because the passive healing was almost double

    so thinking about pvp, the siphoning strikes was like maybe 1300-1400 heal before battle spirit, or about 600-700 heal per sec in pvp environment

    leeching strikes unbuffed was like 1900-2000 heal per sec before battle spirit, so with battle spirit it would be like around 1000 heal per sec, which can make a difference, and of course the free cast every 10 sec on an already health limited character (stamblade does not have great healing, i uses dark cloak and vigor to heal, no real burst heals lol)

    The more I mess around with them the harder it actually is to tell. As you said, Battle Spirit is a big factor. So I did some number crunching (warning: wall of text ahead)

    Let's assume you are not a vampire with increased costs, and have no additional healing power boosting the healing tooltips.

    SIPHONING ATTACKS: 1250 Health Restored and 200 Magick+stamina restoured per hit. Sacrifice 4000 Health for 2600 Magicka + Stamina (5200 resources total)

    LEECHING STRIKES: 1800 Health restored per hit, sacrifice 4000 Health for 2000 Magicka+Stamina (4000 total). Each time the effect procs, gain a charge that reduces the next cast by 10%, stacking up to 10 times.

    So I did some number crunching earlier about the TOTAL resource generation, but never went over the value of the resources themselves.

    10 hits + 1 cast of SIPHONING is a net gain of 8500 Health, 4600 Magicka and 4600 Stamina.
    10 hits + 1 cast of LEECHING is a net gain of 18000 health, 2000 Magicka and 2000 Stamina.

    Now Let's apply BATTLE SPIRIT

    10 hits + 1 cast of SIPHONING is a net gain of 2250 Health, 4600 Magicka and 4600 Stamina.
    10 hits + 1 cast of LEECHING is a net gain of 9000 health, 2000 Magicka and 2000 Stamina.

    Right off of the bat, it seems as if Leeching Strikes just plain wins because it has an extra 6750 health to play with, despite the resource difference. However, you have to consider what you can DO with those extra resources from Siphoning Attacks. Of course, a lot of this has to do with the player's stats. In my case, that extra 2600 is enough to cast Resolving Vigor, which heals me for ~9000 health over 5 seconds (after Battle Spirit). That's more than enough to take over the healing of Leeching Strikes, while still gaining the same amount of net Stamina and 2600 more Magicka. Essentially what it boils down to is that Resources tend to be worth more than Health, because a lot of healing skills have a positive Resource-to-Health ratio, even with Battle Spirit active (ESPECIALLY if Battle Spirit is not active).

    TL;DR: Siphoning is flat out better in PvE. In PvP do whatever feels better to you, they're pretty close. I'm sticking with Siphoning because I tend to hop between PvE and PvP alot and I don't want to swap it every single time.
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  • Sluggy
    Sluggy
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    yadibroz wrote: »
    NB need a overtime healing that is area and same goes for templar

    They both have them.
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  • Necrotech_Master
    Necrotech_Master
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    Caecus0 wrote: »
    i went with leeching because the passive healing was almost double

    so thinking about pvp, the siphoning strikes was like maybe 1300-1400 heal before battle spirit, or about 600-700 heal per sec in pvp environment

    leeching strikes unbuffed was like 1900-2000 heal per sec before battle spirit, so with battle spirit it would be like around 1000 heal per sec, which can make a difference, and of course the free cast every 10 sec on an already health limited character (stamblade does not have great healing, i uses dark cloak and vigor to heal, no real burst heals lol)

    The more I mess around with them the harder it actually is to tell. As you said, Battle Spirit is a big factor. So I did some number crunching (warning: wall of text ahead)

    Let's assume you are not a vampire with increased costs, and have no additional healing power boosting the healing tooltips.

    SIPHONING ATTACKS: 1250 Health Restored and 200 Magick+stamina restoured per hit. Sacrifice 4000 Health for 2600 Magicka + Stamina (5200 resources total)

    LEECHING STRIKES: 1800 Health restored per hit, sacrifice 4000 Health for 2000 Magicka+Stamina (4000 total). Each time the effect procs, gain a charge that reduces the next cast by 10%, stacking up to 10 times.

    So I did some number crunching earlier about the TOTAL resource generation, but never went over the value of the resources themselves.

    10 hits + 1 cast of SIPHONING is a net gain of 8500 Health, 4600 Magicka and 4600 Stamina.
    10 hits + 1 cast of LEECHING is a net gain of 18000 health, 2000 Magicka and 2000 Stamina.

    Now Let's apply BATTLE SPIRIT

    10 hits + 1 cast of SIPHONING is a net gain of 2250 Health, 4600 Magicka and 4600 Stamina.
    10 hits + 1 cast of LEECHING is a net gain of 9000 health, 2000 Magicka and 2000 Stamina.

    Right off of the bat, it seems as if Leeching Strikes just plain wins because it has an extra 6750 health to play with, despite the resource difference. However, you have to consider what you can DO with those extra resources from Siphoning Attacks. Of course, a lot of this has to do with the player's stats. In my case, that extra 2600 is enough to cast Resolving Vigor, which heals me for ~9000 health over 5 seconds (after Battle Spirit). That's more than enough to take over the healing of Leeching Strikes, while still gaining the same amount of net Stamina and 2600 more Magicka. Essentially what it boils down to is that Resources tend to be worth more than Health, because a lot of healing skills have a positive Resource-to-Health ratio, even with Battle Spirit active (ESPECIALLY if Battle Spirit is not active).

    TL;DR: Siphoning is flat out better in PvE. In PvP do whatever feels better to you, they're pretty close. I'm sticking with Siphoning because I tend to hop between PvE and PvP alot and I don't want to swap it every single time.

    thats exactly the thought process i had

    leeching is better in pvp or any situation where battle spirit applies

    siphoning is better in pve for the passive resource generation
    plays PC/NA
    handle @Necrotech_Master
    active player since april 2014
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