Reporting Bots a waste of time?

Westcoast14_ESO · May 2014

I've submitted at least 4 tickets on bots with links to unlisted videos of the bots in action. The character names and exploitative actions are both clearly shown, and the videos are all quite short.

So, more than one full day later, and no one from ZoS has bothered to look at the videos, either to confirm the conduct or to collect the character names so the accounts can be identified.

These accounts have probably made far over the purchase price of the game by now. They also interfere with quest progression in many instances while doing so by wiping the impacted areas of quest mobs.

So what's the deal? Waiting until the exploiters have made far more money from their disruptive activities before banning isn't going to address the issue of bots. All it's going to do is ensure that most players early experience in the game are particularly bot infested.

If ZoS isn't going to act on the tickets, why are they encouraging players to submit them? It takes maybe 10% of my playtime now to report bots.

Rather I should say it took 10% of my playtime because I'm not going to bother anymore until I see some kind of actual response to my reporting. Currently it just seems like a waste of time.

GossiTheDog · May 2014

You spend 10% of your playtime reporting bots?! Ignore them.

AeliaVicusPlave · May 2014

At least some players still care...

Westcoast14_ESO · May 2014

GossiTheDog wrote: »

You spend 10% of your playtime reporting bots?! Ignore them.

I was doing so as a courtesy for ZoS, the same way I report in game bugs.

As for the 10%, it's not like I go looking for bots. I just do the main quest lines and the side quests along the routes for the main quest lines. So far I tend to run into them in the areas hosting the main quest lines.

Ignoring them in some cases just not possible. Whoever is coding them doesn't have them discriminate between quest mobs and non-quest mobs. As a result, I've run into areas that have been entirely depopulated of some quest mobs.

As an example, in one instance I was left wondering what I was supposed to do to complete a quest. It's one of the go find x people quest. As it turns out, the people have to be rescued from quest mobs. Only the quest mobs were getting killed so quickly, there weren't any in range. Finally I had a direction arrow pop up, and when I sprinted to the indicated area, I arrived just in time to see a mass of Templar bots insta-gibbing a quest mob via mass puncturing strikes.

So ignoring the bots, not always possible. Not wasting time reporting them, definitely possible. Bypassing side quests in bot infested areas, also definitely possible.

DMuehlhausen · May 2014

They just did a big ban the other night in the stonefalls area. Don't bother reporting every individual character. If you see them running in a group chances are they are on the same account. So reporting one will effectively ban the other ones as well eventually

Westcoast14_ESO · May 2014

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

They just did a big ban the other night in the stonefalls area. Don't bother reporting every individual character. If you see them running in a group chances are they are on the same account. So reporting one will effectively ban the other ones as well eventually

That's interesting. Do you mean that they can simultaneously log into more than one character on an account? I'd been reporting them all under the assumption that each character represented a single account.

crush83 · May 2014

Westcoast14_ESO wrote: »

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

They just did a big ban the other night in the stonefalls area. Don't bother reporting every individual character. If you see them running in a group chances are they are on the same account. So reporting one will effectively ban the other ones as well eventually

That's interesting. Do you mean that they can simultaneously log into more than one character on an account? I'd been reporting them all under the assumption that each character represented a single account.

I'm going to take a wild guess here and say that I think he meant same credit card account. Meaning they were all purchased with the same stolen credit card. If one account gets banned on that stolen credit card, you'd expect any other accounts purchased on the same account might also be banned.

However, I don't believe that is the case.

1) We have players who have been swept up in these GM bans reporting that only the character they were playing was "locked out". They were free to play another character on their account.

2) They won't actually ban accounts that are associated to the same payment account. For example, if a father pays for his sons account, and his son acts like an idiot and gets banned, they will ban the son's account, but not the fathers. At least, that's how most games handle that situation. I can't stay for sure that it works like that here.

GossiTheDog · May 2014

You can open multiple copies of eso.exe using the bot tools at same time and run, say, 20 bots on one PC.

If you check the video you sent them next week, nobody will have watched it (but you). Your best bet is to ignore it. Zenimax are doing mass bans of people who do things like teleport hacks (speed movements) and people you send large amounts of gold or items to each other.

crush83 · May 2014

GossiTheDog wrote: »

You can open multiple copies of eso.exe using the bot tools at same time and run, say, 20 bots on one PC.

If you check the video you sent them next week, nobody will have watched it (but you). Your best bet is to ignore it. Zenimax are doing mass bans of people who do things like teleport hacks (speed movements) and people you send large amounts of gold or items to each other.

Yes, but can you login to 8 characters from the same account is the question?

I'd say the more sophisticated bots don't even have a graphical client, but are simply a console based application that works as a message processor.

GossiTheDog · May 2014

The bot tools all hook into eso.exe so far and basically press keys and memory hack. Source: I'm working with ZOS around bot and memory hacking (no clipping etc to go underground).

Reporting bots to GMs is pointless by the way, they're just locking the characters - as a bot master you just log in as another character or delete it and make another toon.

crush83 · May 2014

GossiTheDog wrote: »

The bot tools all hook into eso.exe so far and basically press keys and memory hack. Source: I'm working with ZOS around bot and memory hacking (no clipping etc to go underground).

Reporting bots to GMs is pointless by the way, they're just locking the characters - as a bot master you just log in as another character or delete it and make another toon.

*Deleted information that could give nefarious people ideas.*

GossiTheDog · May 2014

@crush83, you're absolutely right - you could do that, especially if you want to delete any eventual warden code ZOS might put in. However, right now you can load up ESO.exe, load up a memory editor, change one thing, and then fly around the map. There's literally no security, there's not even server side collision. If you want to see bots in action just YouTube it.

crush83 · May 2014

GossiTheDog wrote: »

@crush83, you're absolutely right - you could do that, especially if you want to delete any eventual warden code ZOS might put in. However, right now you can load up ESO.exe, load up a memory editor, change one thing, and then fly around the map. There's literally no security, there's not even server side collision. If you want to see bots in action just YouTube it.

*Deleted all this information so that it doesn't give any nefarious people ideas*

@GossiTheDog feel free to contact me via private message if you'd like more information on bot/client creation. I've got quite a bit of experience in reverse engineering and would love to help getting rid of the bots.

michaelpatrickjonesnub18_ESO · May 2014

That's what you pay Zen the big bucks for. Let them do it. Maybe they'll learn something.

Ten years from now they'll be able to teach others how not to make a game.

Westcoast14_ESO · May 2014

Thanks

@GossiTheDog
@crush83‌

for providing highly relevant and insightful commentary re. the bot situation in ESO.

Mailmann · May 2014

I've reported bots in the morning, only to log on more than twelve hours later to see the same bot doing the exact same thing later that night. Sadly, even when GMs do drop the ban hammer, those banned bots just get replaced with shiny new ones. I really hope Zenimax gets this ugliness resolved very soon.

ElliottXO · May 2014

Not worth it. ZOS probably has 10.000 tickets before yours and they will probably just trash all of them at some point.

Skillet · May 2014

Periodic banning of Bots but not fully exterminating the disease is good for business. As long as despite having to buy a new license the Bot remains profitable overall, the disease goes on. Its a win win.

Shalynx · May 2014

Look this Glitcher spoted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AC1F82UDf0
French video

Glitcher: htrhshr

Teloria · May 2014

From what we see, really nothing is being done about the bots and yes, they are a huge problem. We have 5 players in our house and we play daily. We also play multiple MMO's (not lately since ESO has come out) but have NEVER seen the bot problem there we see here, so we KNOW there are ways ESO can eliminate the problem but for some reason, won't. We all report bots daily and no, they are still there. We are having difficulty gathering our mats to get our gear up and at times really have problems getting our quests done because the bots are killing everything. As of the last two days we have seen bots in large groups killing everything, as usual, go underground and come up to get the nodes, dissappear through terrain, go beyond fast and even come out of the trees and 'fly' to their targets. This is insane and beyond stupid. Something really has to be done. Oh, and the Dev 'bot killers' that come out occassionally, shouldn't announce where they are going.

Phinix1 · May 2014

Sorry to say it, but the "we're working on it" feels like a smokescreen to save money on the frustrated rage quits. When you can see 10 spear-spamming templars named dafdafadsf even in 30+ zones, you know that nothing is really being done.

The reason is pretty obvious.

It is sad, but the bots really have ruined this game. For me anyway. Them and the trolls and griefers and instant gratification twitch kids that support them.

I 100% blame the devs for doing such a poor job patching out these blatant holes in their engine code that there are actually apps you can buy online to exploit them. Its a joke.

When I play I feel like there are more bots around me than actual players, and nobody talks to anyone outside of guilds because they all ignore each other or turn off chat out of frustration.

Merlin13KAGL · May 2014

Don't let it detract too much from your game...

Yeah, it sucks. Yeah, it's a problem.

If you take the time to nab a couple of them and quick report (I usually just put "BOT" in the description) then you've done your duty, so to speak.

The code can log where you are and who they are...and hopefully, somewhere along the line, someone comes to take a look and spots the other 15 you don't take time to report...

You may have to come back to your desired area later, true...

But please don't let it take away so much from your own game time that you start to lose enjoyment of the game.

Report the occasional issue as you find it, bots or otherwise and you have added your contribution. If we all do that, we'll get there!

After that, though go enjoy your game!

Phinix1 · May 2014

Consider the following quote from Fight Club, which I feel applies to the bot situation:

"A new car built by my company leaves somewhere traveling at 60 mph. The rear differential locks up. The car crashes and burns with everyone trapped inside. Now, should we initiate a recall? Take the number of vehicles in the field, A, multiply by the probable rate of failure, B, multiply by the average out-of-court settlement, C. A times B times C equals X. If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one."

Take the number of bot accounts in the field, A, multiply by the probability frustrated players will actually report individual bots or be able to follow them long enough to do so through the clunky system available, B, multiply by the revenue lost by permanently banning reported accounts, C. A times B times C equals X. If X is greater than the projected losses of legitimate players cancelling their subs due to frustration with botting ruining the game, they do not ban the bots.

So far, the bots are making them more money than they are losing to players quitting due to frustration with the bots. Period.

You could factor in the cost of hiring GM's to combat the bots, but it pretty much follows the same corporate pattern. At least that is my impression after swimming through the sea of bots up through the 30 zones a month into release now.

This is not on the writers or the devs or the artistic talent behind the game. This is on the greedy suits that ruin everything they touch, in the video game industry and every other human industry on the planet.

The Greedy Man ruins everything.

Reignskream · May 2014

i report bots myself, but if i see a large grp i just report the 1 bot, and take a pic of them all and send it in. --problem solved, get your achiev and move along. They don't bother me none, as i can get through what i need to even with 10 of them standing around a dungeon boss. Sometimes i am still even lucky enough to get phat lewts

. Sucks that you can only get 1 or 2 hits in at a time, but it is what it is atm, and i make the best of a bad situation. Only because i enjoy this game allot. --to the OP, i don't think reporting bots is a waste of time at all, but i won't sit there and report 10 different bots, and waste my time.

Westcoast14_ESO · May 2014

Has anyone tried this Fast Report add on?

http://www.esoui.com/downloads/info181-FastReport.html

ElliottXO · May 2014

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Don't let it detract too much from your game...

Yeah, it sucks. Yeah, it's a problem.

If you take the time to nab a couple of them and quick report (I usually just put "BOT" in the description) then you've done your duty, so to speak.

The code can log where you are and who they are...and hopefully, somewhere along the line, someone comes to take a look and spots the other 15 you don't take time to report...

You may have to come back to your desired area later, true...

But please don't let it take away so much from your own game time that you start to lose enjoyment of the game.

Report the occasional issue as you find it, bots or otherwise and you have added your contribution. If we all do that, we'll get there!

After that, though go enjoy your game!

You don't seem to understand. You cannot ignore them. Everything you earn in this game will become worthless if there is a legion of bots farming 24/7.

The only thing that will remain it's value are items bots cannot farm. And since they can farm golden mats, I don't see any working economy left if this goes on.

Soon you will get legendary crafting mats for 100g per piece.

Ackwalan · May 2014

Since banned accounts are now removed from your ignore list, Reporting then ignoring is the way to go. If the name is removed from your ignore list, you know something was done.

Westcoast14_ESO · May 2014

Ackwalan wrote: »

Since banned accounts are now removed from your ignore list, Reporting then ignoring is the way to go. If the name is removed from your ignore list, you know something was done.

Good to know. I don't why more MMO's don't have this feature.

Thorntongue · May 2014

crush83 wrote: »

Westcoast14_ESO wrote: »

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

They just did a big ban the other night in the stonefalls area. Don't bother reporting every individual character. If you see them running in a group chances are they are on the same account. So reporting one will effectively ban the other ones as well eventually

That's interesting. Do you mean that they can simultaneously log into more than one character on an account? I'd been reporting them all under the assumption that each character represented a single account.

I'm going to take a wild guess here and say that I think he meant same credit card account. Meaning they were all purchased with the same stolen credit card. If one account gets banned on that stolen credit card, you'd expect any other accounts purchased on the same account might also be banned.

However, I don't believe that is the case.

1) We have players who have been swept up in these GM bans reporting that only the character they were playing was "locked out". They were free to play another character on their account.

2) They won't actually ban accounts that are associated to the same payment account. For example, if a father pays for his sons account, and his son acts like an idiot and gets banned, they will ban the son's account, but not the fathers. At least, that's how most games handle that situation. I can't stay for sure that it works like that here.

You assume it's always a stolen credit card. It could also be the pre-paid game time cards available at many places.

AlliN · May 2014

I stopped doing that - I have a full 100 ignore list, including 20 bots that were KILLED BY GM HIMSELF, and I can still whisp those accounts.

Not even a single one account gone, for 3 weeks.
If they are banning someone, those are not bots or gold spammers.
In my guild there is 2 other guys with the same case of 100 ignores, different names, still full list.

Well, some random idiots on this forum said "but botters are paying customers too!" - soon enough they will be the only paying customers.

I'm giving them a month to remove even a single one from that list, because Wildstar turned to be even more crappy, if not I won't bother anymore.

Phinix1 · May 2014

Funny enough, I have never run into a single bot in months of playing FFXIV. I think maybe I ran into ONE multibox guy, but he was a real person and would even talk to you, and was only using the followers to heal and buff himself, not farm and ruin the economy.

In fact out of the half dozen MMO's I have played in the last decade, this is the worst botting I have ever seen, which leads me to believe it is by design. There is simply no way a code exploit that allows flying, spinning, invisible, under the world bots to do what they do could go over a month without patching if it weren't.