yadibroz wrote: »

Vulkunne wrote: »

I'll take a 'stab' at this one.

In my experience, a PvE Tank set will only go so far in PvP. There will reach a point where it simply won't be able to keep pace. So I've found its better to have a Tank set tailored specifically for PvE and another for PvP. There are some similarities between these two things yet you want the best outcome from each set and in order to do that they need to be setup to tackle different problems, situations.

Secondly, while some will probably make recommendations, you are asking for the best set. And that is something that will take time to figure out. There are things that will work as others will suggest, most will be right I'm sure, however the best set is the one that works best for you and it takes time and experience to tell what is best and what is adequate for PvE or PvP. In short, many sets will be adequate but only a very select few will come out best.

And that just takes time to sort out. I'll leave recommendations or individual opinions regarding sets to the community to decide. But my opinion regarding Crimson Oath is this is something probably better to run in PvP. I wouldn't use this for PvE unless its in coordination with a Team whose asking for it, as most mobs don't live long enough anyways for you to see too much benefit from this. Not to mention how Crimson Oath 5 pc denies you a better set to use as PvE Tank. Most mobs have 9.1k mitigation. Between Sharpened Trait (OR Lover Mundus) and Major Resolve, given the class, that right there negates most of their armor. So no this is a bad set for PvE, though much better for PvP.

I ask because I have a tank set on arcanist and use it on a dungeon and the leader told me that I'm no tank because of the set I was using but he didn't tell me what set to use so that is why being a tank is hard but I do at least want to have a tank Character so I need help.

Soarora wrote: »

Crimson oath is perfectly fine to use. It's used in trials sometimes. Dungeons struggle with penetration problems, so I don't see the problem with using it.

Vulkunne wrote: »

Regarding Tanking with various sets, I have like my main Tanking set, ok. And then I use that set mainly for things like 4 man and vDSA sometimes as well as BGs too. And that works just fine. But there are reasons why I go this route and not another route, as of course there are many different tanking sets/builds in ESO.

If I'm part of a trial, then in support of that temporary 'relationship' I will accommodate using another set, such as Crimson Oath. So yeah that is fine and as I've said before that collaboration is really important for groups. In that regard Crimson Oath is fine, especially if its what they're asking for. Aside from that, there is no reason to go too hard in one direction for the daily 'hustle' as I like to call it.

Doing so makes you strong in that direction but what the op may eventually find is there are other priorities that will make themselves visible over time. And with mobs generally dying fast on their own, the quality of DPS builds now at an all-time high (with Arcanist), the need to be powerful in other areas to prevent problems, if its a 4 man group half the Team is focused on dmg already and the fact there are other means to get penetration up to around 9k (unless you want more but no real reason for regular mobs) there's just no need to sacrifice other things to go HAM on parts of a problem that will fix themselves so to speak.

Vulkunne wrote: »

PapaTankers wrote: »

Vulkunne wrote: »

Regarding Tanking with various sets, I have like my main Tanking set, ok. And then I use that set mainly for things like 4 man and vDSA sometimes as well as BGs too. And that works just fine. But there are reasons why I go this route and not another route, as of course there are many different tanking sets/builds in ESO.

If I'm part of a trial, then in support of that temporary 'relationship' I will accommodate using another set, such as Crimson Oath. So yeah that is fine and as I've said before that collaboration is really important for groups. In that regard Crimson Oath is fine, especially if its what they're asking for. Aside from that, there is no reason to go too hard in one direction for the daily 'hustle' as I like to call it.

Doing so makes you strong in that direction but what the op may eventually find is there are other priorities that will make themselves visible over time. And with mobs generally dying fast on their own, the quality of DPS builds now at an all-time high (with Arcanist), the need to be powerful in other areas to prevent problems, if its a 4 man group half the Team is focused on dmg already and the fact there are other means to get penetration up to around 9k (unless you want more but no real reason for regular mobs) there's just no need to sacrifice other things to go HAM on parts of a problem that will fix themselves so to speak.

In which realsitic scenario will pve dps running 9k pen without sharpened maces? That much pen is only needed for solo arenas or pvp.
If you are not at the pen cap, then 3,5k pen crimson provides will outweight almost every other option.
As a tank you always wanna build for max group dps.
You might think that defensive sets such as leeching are better for survival, but in actuality the higher group dps allows to skip mechanics or spend less time in them. That means less damage taken.

I also saw that in one of the above posts you suggested never to drop block. Please do not give advice like that. All it does is enforcing bad habits.
You are going to gut your sustain like that. You dont regain stamina when you are blocking.
If you are at resist cap then in most cases all you need to do is block heavys and channeled attacks.

To summerize.
If your group does not have alkosh then crimson is one of the best options.
If you do have alkosh, dont run crimson.

Thank you for your reply to my previous posts for this topic.

First of all, I believe you have a misunderstanding regarding my comment. What I said was, "it doesn't matter what happens, you do not drop the block." A surface level critique of this thought is by me indicating no matter what happens, this implies a critical situation, one in which you do not drop the block, meaning you are blocking something. And you don't because you will die and might get kicked. I never said you do not ever drop block or don't ever drop the shield. Surely you understand this as well so why put this on me? If you think about what I said the meaning is already in there. If I can't mean what I say then I don't say what I mean.

Second, I gave no scenario. This is what I meant about leaving room to accommodate those with special requests. There's your scenario right there. What I said was doing just regular 4 man dailies and such doesn't require such a heavy handed approach. However, I provided numbers early and the numbers should still be the for purpose of completing the run. Not for addressing any specific scenario or hypothetical which in the examples your putting down is going in another direction. If the numbers are there then the group has what it needed without proof of any particular concept.

Third regarding this comment:

To summerize.
If your group does not have alkosh then crimson is one of the best options.
If you do have alkosh, dont run crimson.

Alkosh is a Trial set and not everyone can get that. Inf act, a great many can't even get into certain Trial runs without providing evidence of a clear and are simply denied the opportunity. So for someone who said they're basically learning tanking, this is not the best advice. I have never run Alkosh or any Trial set, I usually look for something either close enough to it or something without a different way of doing the same thing. Everyone cannot get access to Trial sets and furthermore, its not needed. Neither is Crimson Oath. Neither of these are necessary for dailies and there are other sets that would serve better for that purposes. If you're uh in a Trial Guild that great but doing 4 man dailies does not require me to be equipped for something that may be popular for a 12 man run? Do you see why this is a bad idea? 4 man run requires 4 man solution not a Trials group. That is a conflict of interest.

Final, in my open letter and I wanna say follow up post to the op, I did suggest they do some additional research in order to better understand how mitigation and damage works, how it affects the Tank role and how the Tank can also contribute to these. I do not believe in spelling out every point, I refuse to do that as stated previously. I welcome your contrasting point of view however as I've said no one has to agree but I caution the op to use this as an illustration of how important it is to get the Tanking Fundamentals down FIRST. There are many different people out there with different vision for what a Tank is and so forth and that's great however you vision should be no less that theres. Everyone is not going to agree and if you don't understand the big picture it will always be an argument with someone else who doesn't like your Tank style.

yadibroz wrote: »

Vulkunne wrote: »

I'll take a 'stab' at this one.

In my experience, a PvE Tank set will only go so far in PvP. There will reach a point where it simply won't be able to keep pace. So I've found its better to have a Tank set tailored specifically for PvE and another for PvP. There are some similarities between these two things yet you want the best outcome from each set and in order to do that they need to be setup to tackle different problems, situations.

Secondly, while some will probably make recommendations, you are asking for the best set. And that is something that will take time to figure out. There are things that will work as others will suggest, most will be right I'm sure, however the best set is the one that works best for you and it takes time and experience to tell what is best and what is adequate for PvE or PvP. In short, many sets will be adequate but only a very select few will come out best.

And that just takes time to sort out. I'll leave recommendations or individual opinions regarding sets to the community to decide. But my opinion regarding Crimson Oath is this is something probably better to run in PvP. I wouldn't use this for PvE unless its in coordination with a Team whose asking for it, as most mobs don't live long enough anyways for you to see too much benefit from this. Not to mention how Crimson Oath 5 pc denies you a better set to use as PvE Tank. Most mobs have 9.1k mitigation. Between Sharpened Trait (OR Lover Mundus) and Major Resolve, given the class, that right there negates most of their armor. So no this is a bad set for PvE, though much better for PvP.

I ask because I have a tank set on arcanist and use it on a dungeon and the leader told me that I'm no tank because of the set I was using but he didn't tell me what set to use so that is why being a tank is hard but I do at least want to have a tank Character so I need help.