Redguard, hybrid environment, and role play

ClevererHail6 · March 23

Redguards are the martial experts. Idc too much about lore atm because they need to be updated in this hybrid environment. AND Its totally possible, to match lore but update for the hybrid environment. There’s plenty of unused stats Redguards (and some other unused races) can utilize. Some other races need love too, but Redguard is easily the most outdated and underwhelming in every category.
ZOS is saying play anyway you want, but thats hard with the Redguard.
I can use Argonian as an example. It is BIS for max healing. High Elf cannot beat 6% healing done. Breton is just used for sustain and because no one likes tails lol. Argonian, has good sustain, and healing makes it usable as a tank. Maybe not endgame tank, but usable.
Redguard is beginner tank friendly, and thats it. Not viable after you get good with tanking.

StarOfElyon · March 23

Do you mean mag/stam hybrid?

ClevererHail6 · March 23

Yes. How skills now scale based on highest stat

El_Borracho · March 25

Redguards have not been useful since the race passives overhaul several years ago. They were once a top race for stamina DDs

ClevererHail6 · March 25

El_Borracho wrote: »

Redguards have not been useful since the race passives overhaul several years ago. They were once a top race for stamina DDs

I agree. Looking for a change. The biggest issue is that Redguard is way too niche atm.

DrNukenstein · March 25

I think stam sustain, W/S damage (54-129 more than what dark elve's get) and decreased cost for roll and break free would be a great fit for redguard.

When I think "martial expert" in ESO I think better stamina economy without any actual investment in stamina economy.

ClevererHail6 · March 26

DrNukenstein wrote: »

I think stam sustain, W/S damage (54-129 more than what dark elve's get) and decreased cost for roll and break free would be a great fit for redguard.

When I think "martial expert" in ESO I think better stamina economy without any actual investment in stamina economy.

I think you’re spot on with the investment part. I still think that only break free and roll dodge is too niche because Imperial gets reduction in ALL abilities.

If someone has a PTS test they can post that would helpful too. That goes a long way in making changes.

Sabre · March 26

Have to agree with you about the Redguard - and quite frankly all of the classes, skills, armor sets, etc. A large percentage of things were created prior to the hybrid approach to things but have not been adjusted.

The general consensus seems to be that the best classes are the Imperial and Dunmer, and then maybe Nord because of the ultimate regen.

One could argue that the racial passives don't make that much of a difference...but if that is the case, why have them at all.

The racial buffs could be obtained elsewhere in the game or simply deleted and put the races all on a level playing field. One might not be sure how that might effect the Imperial, which is purchased. Bretons are basically the same body and better looking :P.

DrNukenstein · March 26

ClevererHail6 wrote: »

I think you’re spot on with the investment part. I still think that only break free and roll dodge is too niche because Imperial gets reduction in ALL abilities.

If someone has a PTS test they can post that would helpful too. That goes a long way in making changes.

My thoughts are a significant reduction to dodge and break free costs would be useful to all specs especially for pvp and high end solo, but stam skill cost reduction would mostly benefit stam specs.

StarOfElyon · March 26

ClevererHail6 wrote: »

Yes. How skills now scale based on highest stat

I made my Redguard DK in Elswery and she was a hybrid from the start. In fact, after my first and main character which I made in Summerset, the first three characters afterwards that I made in Elswery were all hybrids. This was before hybridization and I think my Redguard was just fine as a hybrid, with the only thing holding that character back being bad stamina passives. I can work with only stamina bonuses if they're actually good. It just means that I'll have to invest less in stamina sustain.

StarOfElyon wrote: »

These are some tweaks I would like to see made to the Redguards's passives. Hopefully, they will be seen as reasonable among the devs. They keep in mind the Redguards's reputation for endurance (stamina return) and discipline (reduced ability cost).
"The Redguards of Hammerfell are talented and athletic warriors, born to battle. A desert people, their ancestors migrated to Tamriel from the lost continent of Yokuda. Their culture is based on preserving ancient traditions and defying their harsh environment. They prize honor and dignity above all else, combining a deep reverence for the divine with a suspicion of all things magical. Their capital is the merchant port of Sentinel, but their roots are deep in the sands of the Alik'r Desert. In their youth, Redguards endure a rite of passage in the desolate wastes of Alik'r as a test of endurance and discipline. Only the strongest survive." https://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Redguard

PASSIVES:

Wayfarer - Increases your experience gain with the One Hand and Shield skill line by 15%. Increases the duration of any eaten food by 15 minutes.

*Martial Training - Reduces the stamina cost of your abilities by 6%. Reduces the effectiveness of snares applied to you by 15%.
Redguards need help as a stamina sustain race. Reduced stamina cost across the board seems fitting.

Conditioning - Increases your Max Stamina by 2000.

*Adrenaline Rush - Increases your stamina recovery by 130. When you deal or take damage, you restore 248 Stamina. This effect can occur once every 3 seconds.
A big problem with the old version of this passive is that it was way too active, requiring you to spend resources to get resources back. It causes problems when you're not in a position to deal damage. No damage; no sustain. This change makes the "adrenaline rush" passive more "passive" and is still tied to being in combat. This also reinforces their reputation for endurance, "the ability to withstand hardship or adversity."

ClevererHail6 · March 26

Sabre wrote: »

One could argue that the racial passives don't make that much of a difference...but if that is the case, why have them at all.

And yet, here we are. Race matters when score pushing.
I’m sure you noticed I said roleplay. :P

For overland play etc. Redguards, and even more so Argonians need a change. Argonians is a hard one to figure out. It is also currently the only healer. IMO need another healer theres already bunch of tank, damage, max stats. But Argonians is a different topic.

I trust ZOS is continuing to work around to hybrid changes as they have said.

MudcrabAttack · March 26

The game has always felt very lop sided, especially from the moment 248 weapon/spell damage got passed around to certain races

Even looking at the Argonian healer example, 6% healing buff can get watered down closer to 5% when all the other multipliers like major mending are active

As for a High Elf build, Healers typically don’t have much weapon/spell damage to begin with. An extra 248 weapon/spell damage buffs heals for a healer better than it would buff damage on a damage dealer (because of diminishing returns), you get closer to a 4 or 5% buff on a High Elf healer. Add in double the amount of magicka vs an Argonian (which buffs heals further) and a high elf could marginally be out-healing an Argonian if sustain isn’t an issue

It’s often the case that sustain isn’t an issue in group PVE. Until devs spread stats that boost power more evenly across races it’s just going to stay lopsided