is using bots instead of reporting them bannable?

paradoxorganisationb16_ESO · May 2014

AlliN wrote: »

Why would it be banable as long as it's a person controlling the toon?

Becasue YOU don't control other 3 characters that run with you. Stop this damn grey area nonsense.

YOU DO NOT CONTROL YOUR BOT FOLLOWERS.

3rd party program controls them for you, based on your input in the main character. There is no small print, there is no "maybe, if, well, some, slightly, almost"

You do not control them.

Using 3rd party software IS a bannable offence, end of story. Unless you want to tell me you are godess Kali with 8 hands, and you use 4 keyobards and mouses at once. Then, maybe get help right away.

You bot defenders make me sick. Only a person with moral spine of amoeba does not see the problem in botting or bot party abusing.

Your post litterally makes no sense. Running and killing stuff with others is banable in your eyes?

By your definition if i kill a mob with anyone i can be banned as i don't control any other chars then my own in the world be it a bot or not.

Ohh and small note also anyone that uses a logitech G keyboard or any semi modern gaming keyboard should also be banned then?

Ps. I don't really know who you are talking about defending botting, I can't see any and the topic was if it was banable or not which since there is nothing being done against the ToS i'd say it's not.

crush83 · May 2014

paradoxorganisationb16_ESO wrote: »

AlliN wrote: »

Why would it be banable as long as it's a person controlling the toon?

Becasue YOU don't control other 3 characters that run with you. Stop this damn grey area nonsense.

YOU DO NOT CONTROL YOUR BOT FOLLOWERS.

3rd party program controls them for you, based on your input in the main character. There is no small print, there is no "maybe, if, well, some, slightly, almost"

You do not control them.

Using 3rd party software IS a bannable offence, end of story. Unless you want to tell me you are godess Kali with 8 hands, and you use 4 keyobards and mouses at once. Then, maybe get help right away.

You bot defenders make me sick. Only a person with moral spine of amoeba does not see the problem in botting or bot party abusing.

Your post litterally makes no sense. Running and killing stuff with others is banable in your eyes?

By your definition if i kill a mob with anyone i can be banned as i don't control any other chars then my own in the world be it a bot or not.

Ohh and small note also anyone that uses a logitech G keyboard or any semi modern gaming keyboard should also be banned then?

Ps. I don't really know who you are talking about defending botting, I can't see any and the topic was if it was banable or not which since there is nothing being done against the ToS i'd say it's not.

Another poster who failed the reading comprehension section on the FCAT.

snowmanflvb14_ESO · May 2014

zeuseason wrote: »

This would not be bannable because you are a person controlling your character, not an automation program.

Altho I don't know why you would follow mindless bots around....I've never even 'participated' in the mindless aoe farm 'parties' and see no reason to.

actually it is bannable since you are using an exploit ie the bot you are following and working with.

paradoxorganisationb16_ESO · May 2014

Short of the matter is as long as your control your char and are not exploiting game mechanics you can't be banned and fyi bots are not a game mechanic in case you were not sure.

AlliN · May 2014

Your post litterally makes no sense. Running and killing stuff with others is banable in your eyes?

My post, page ago:

And my statement was about botters, people that run behind them trying to tag along are free to do that as they please, it's not a bannable offense in any way - they might be running behind normal players with the same results.

When you start reading the actual thread, you'll stop making an idiot out of yourself.

actually it is bannable since you are using an exploit ie the bot you are following and working with.

Nothing is ToS would connect running behind other characters to an exploit. If somone is lame enough to do it, nothing in ToS prevents them from it. It's more like wasting time, than actual gain, but if someone feels like it... there's nothing to be gained though.

Ohh and small note also anyone that uses a logitech G keyboard or any semi modern gaming keyboard should also be banned then?

Same thing with A4Tech blood5 recoil remover for FPS games. So, if you bought it with a piece of hardware, it's magically not an exploit anymore? Thing is, if they would be following their own ToS every program like Logitech macro software could be considered 3rd party automation. They won't do that, becasue this would annoy too many people - so I'm not the one to decide if it's right or wrong. It is, again, grey area that people obsessed enough will use to their advantage.

We live in "ends justify the means" generation after all.

paradoxorganisationb16_ESO · May 2014

AlliN wrote: »

Your post litterally makes no sense. Running and killing stuff with others is banable in your eyes?

My post, page ago:

And my statement was about botters, people that run behind them trying to tag along are free to do that as they please, it's not a bannable offense in any way - they might be running behind normal players with the same results.

When you start reading the actual thread, you'll stop making an idiot out of yourself.

In your own words you wrote it would be banable because I was not controlling the 3 other chars as per your example. When i play with my GF or friends or whoever it might be i'm not controlling thier actions aswell. It has little meaning if it's bot or not since i'm controlling my own char and it's my choice to do whatever I please with as long as i'm not breaking the rules.

And you said yourself that you can run behind players doing the exact same thing so honestly you seem to be shoting yourself in the foot taking 2 opposite standpoints on this subject.

AlliN · May 2014

In your own words you wrote it would be banable because I was not controlling the 3 other chars as per your example.

My first post was about automated multiboxing, not your running behind bots. I'm not shooting myself in the foot, you just have a hard time realising I'm talking about 2 different things, and having different approach to each of them. Let's make it simple:
Bots, automated multiboxers - bad, you and your running behind bots (becasue you could run behind normal players in the same manner) - good.

I hope that clears it up for you.

Reenlister · May 2014

Well, I don't know if it is ban worthy or not. I hate to say this, but it really seems more and more the whole design is set up to accommodate bots. Might as well start following them around and getting some goods.
For example yesterday, I watched a pack of bots run by me as I took a play break three times. I reported them on the second run by. I then went about my business in the area, came back a few hours later, and there they were.
Sure there are so many reports, I can understand the delay in dealing with the problem, but as time goes on I see that more of the same ones exist over and over.
I don't know whats going on behind the scenes, but the plague is and has been out there, and obviously the attempts at control are not really working out very well.
Ultimately the only way to fix the problem is to start penalizing those who are benefiting and buying.
But as for now, seems your going to be one step behind the bots all the time anyway.

paradoxorganisationb16_ESO · May 2014

Didn't you write "YOU DO NOT CONTROL YOUR BOT FOLLOWERS". That pretty much seems to me like you were talking about bots and the people that follow them around. Don't really see how Bot followers can be translated to much else unless we are talking about people following bots via social media pages? ^^

liquid_wolf · May 2014

If the GM sees a group of bots... he will likely ban the group.

Everyone that appears to be part of the group.

Then you can appeal afterwards.

crush83 · May 2014

paradoxorganisationb16_ESO wrote: »

Didn't you write "YOU DO NOT CONTROL YOUR BOT FOLLOWERS". That pretty much seems to me like you were talking about bots and the people that follow them around. Don't really see how Bot followers can be translated to much else unless we are talking about people following bots via social media pages? ^^

It seems to me he was talking about bots that follow you. Funny that is also the definition of multi-boxing.

paradoxorganisationb16_ESO · May 2014

liquid_wolf wrote: »

If the GM sees a group of bots... he will likely ban the group.

Everyone that appears to be part of the group.

Then you can appeal afterwards.

Not that i'm currently doing any of this but i guess for whatever unforseen reason there is the possibility i might in the future i wouldn't worry too much about it.

First off they don't really seem to do anything about the ever growing number of bots(Yeah it's pretty easy to spot the bot train routes and latest evolvement is they are moving into VR content) and should be easy for a GM to spot the difference of the real players following them around.

And if a GM does ban a player controlled account you should deffently not stay this way and be reimbursed fully for the time lost.

FENGRUSH · May 2014

Moonraker wrote: »

What the Zenimax Terms of Use say;

Promote, upload, transmit, encourage or take part in any activity involving hacking, cracking, phishing, taking advantage of exploits or cheats and/or distribution of counterfeit software and/or virtual currency/items. In an effort to continuously improve the Services, You and other players discovering exploits, cheats, cracks or other inconsistencies are required to report them to ZeniMax;

source
From that I would read that if a person knowingly use an exploit then you could be banned for doing so. Whether the exploit is in the game or created by illegal bots isn't going to be any different.

How are bots 'illegal'?? How is botting 'exploiting'??

Sigh..

Boneidle · May 2014

Bots aren't simple macros they are programs which usually read part of the game code to allow them to know what it is they are doing, for example if its collecting nodes the bot reads that there is anode there to collect so it acts accordingly to harvest the node.

If the bot is running around and sees an enemy it registers the enemy in the game code and runs its attack according to the way its set up.

This means that most bots will be hacking or cracking the game code therefore breaching the terms of use.

Simple macros which run a specific set of commands cant be used to bot as there are to many variables, for example if someone killed the mob then the macro would still attack like it was there. Where a bot will just carry on running as it reads in the code that there is nothing to kill.

That is how botting is against the terms and exploiting.

Now to say if it is illegal or not Zeni would actually have to take the bot account holders to court and prove they are breaching terms of use before it could be classed as illegal, this is near impossible as many people have said in other thread most bots use stolen cc details and fake details to create the account so they are very hard, if not near impossible to trace.

Blackwolfe5 · May 2014

Monyan wrote: »

Personally I also would like to know, what to do. Lately I've got the situation: I saw three bots running in circles and killing the same mobs. So as usual I reported them all. But 3 minutes after this I made another ticket saying that one of them isn't bot so please don't ban this player. It was because I saw he suddenly stopped and start "reading". Additionaly he had no prisoner's clothes. The thing was he was running precisely with bots and had some stupid name...

The problem is that bots even seem to have scripts that make them autoequip gear and other stuff, or even add the odd jump here and there just to make them harder to distinguish from regular players.

I did "use" bots once. Forgotten Ruins in Deeshan is a bot hotspot for sure, it is also a group(ish) public dungeon with large mob packs. I simply ran behind the lolbot train (though they die every once in a while) and managed to sneak past whatever they didn't kill and was able to get both the skyshard and do the quest.

Bots are not illegal, but botting is a bannable offense. Botting is not an exploit but if there is an exploit available that allow the bots to farm better/faster you can be damn sure that they will be programmed into doing so.

Bots are a scourge in this game and I hope anyone that uses bots have all their technical equipment suddenly break and any piece of technology they ever try to use will break as well..

Reenlister · May 2014

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Moonraker wrote: »

What the Zenimax Terms of Use say;

Promote, upload, transmit, encourage or take part in any activity involving hacking, cracking, phishing, taking advantage of exploits or cheats and/or distribution of counterfeit software and/or virtual currency/items. In an effort to continuously improve the Services, You and other players discovering exploits, cheats, cracks or other inconsistencies are required to report them to ZeniMax;

source
From that I would read that if a person knowingly use an exploit then you could be banned for doing so. Whether the exploit is in the game or created by illegal bots isn't going to be any different.

How are bots 'illegal'?? How is botting 'exploiting'??

Sigh..

Seriously? You need to be told by us how bots are exploits? You need us to be your moral guide and understand that it is wrong?

ttwinklerub17_ESO · May 2014

bots are indeed illegal in this case
it's a hack - you are modifying software - and as a result are hurting the business of a online company - and interfering with the games of other members -
- that's interfering in commerce - because the other players cant play the game as it was intended (can't get mats, books, kills, or any challenge to kiil)

you can be charge with cybercrime and you can be sued
as WOW and other companies have sued and won lawsuits against companies that design bot software

there are other cases (where a company wants mundane bot software)
ie run scheduled task - run wireless robots on network - change the robots task - change task on computer system add additional task etc

add npc dumbies that say hi or greet people, or be you house maid or house slave/babe, pet fish in a bowl or aquarium - or add story lines or atmosphere
(this would not be detrimental to system)

ie map detection software - looking for abnormalities
you may wish to redesign with different variables and different people may want different task looking over the maps - looking for different things

Kyosji · May 2014

snowmanflvb14_ESO wrote: »

zeuseason wrote: »

This would not be bannable because you are a person controlling your character, not an automation program.

Altho I don't know why you would follow mindless bots around....I've never even 'participated' in the mindless aoe farm 'parties' and see no reason to.

actually it is bannable since you are using an exploit ie the bot you are following and working with.

This comes down to your version of exploit and others. They might not all be bots. There are many areas in Cold Harbor that there are many people running around acting like a bot, but when I ask, many of them answer back. So, it's not an exploit.

Kyosji · May 2014

liquid_wolf wrote: »

If the GM sees a group of bots... he will likely ban the group.

Everyone that appears to be part of the group.

Then you can appeal afterwards.

A GM will actually send out a message to everyone around a couple of times. Then they will ask people to move away from a point unless they wanted to die, then the GM does an AoE kill. The reason they do that is to make sure you aren't a bot. A bot isn't going to die then revive and go "WTF JUST HAPPENED?". The AoE kill is used to make sure you get the message that the GM is there, in case you have the chats turned off. The ones that die, revive, and continue, or revive and come back and continue they ban.

Scowler · May 2014

All bots that pass through my reticle get reported, regardless of location, level, name, or intention. I make time for it. Reporting is its own reward.

FENGRUSH · May 2014

Reenlister wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Moonraker wrote: »

What the Zenimax Terms of Use say;

Promote, upload, transmit, encourage or take part in any activity involving hacking, cracking, phishing, taking advantage of exploits or cheats and/or distribution of counterfeit software and/or virtual currency/items. In an effort to continuously improve the Services, You and other players discovering exploits, cheats, cracks or other inconsistencies are required to report them to ZeniMax;

source
From that I would read that if a person knowingly use an exploit then you could be banned for doing so. Whether the exploit is in the game or created by illegal bots isn't going to be any different.

How are bots 'illegal'?? How is botting 'exploiting'??

Sigh..

Seriously? You need to be told by us how bots are exploits? You need us to be your moral guide and understand that it is wrong?

Bots are bots, exploits are exploits. Bots can bot an exploit, but generally, they just automate content. People call everything exploits in this game. Its a dull community.

stefaan.de.wasch1b16_ESO · May 2014

If someone is sitting next to a bunch of bots and constantly spams his healing while the bots fights... well, then he or she shouldn't be surprised if they get hit by the same ban hammer that smashes the bots...

And well... explaining to Zeni : "but... but... all I was doing was healing those bots" is a phonecall I'd love to be a fly on the wall to hear

Big_Bob · May 2014

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Bots are bots, exploits are exploits. Bots can bot an exploit, but generally, they just automate content. People call everything exploits in this game. Its a dull community.

Oh the naivety...

AlexDougherty · May 2014

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Bots are bots, exploits are exploits. Bots can bot an exploit, but generally, they just automate content. People call everything exploits in this game. Its a dull community.

Bots are an exploit, they are automated, this is an exploit. If you want them to play, then play them physically not automated.

This community is saying that Exploits are Exploits, very few calling anything that isn't and exploit so. If calling something what it is, is boring, then this community and many others like it are proud to be boring.

reggielee · May 2014

No, a bot is a scripted code that allows it to be on auto pilot with no player behind it. If a player chooses to use the bots to farm then its just a PLAYER farming / grinding... same as if they were in a guild group of like minded players... grinding. go for it I say

AlexDougherty · May 2014

reggielee wrote: »

No, a bot is a scripted code that allows it to be on auto pilot with no player behind it. If a player chooses to use the bots to farm then its just a PLAYER farming / grinding... same as if they were in a guild group of like minded players... grinding. go for it I say

No, it is a Program farming/grinding, the player is elsewhere.
The Program gathers goods/gold/exp not the player, the player does nothing, this why Bots are an Exploit.
Add to the fact that multiple bots are running at the same time, and the LAZY BOT USING PLAYER gains relatively large amount for NOTHING.
Add to the fact that Bots are against the TOS.

I will say again, if you want the character to be played, then play it, don't use a bot.

Morbus2 · May 2014

Kyosji wrote: »

Also, for the multiboxing, last I heard, multiboxing was allowed ONLY if you are activly playing each character. I know many games have different deffinitions on what is allowed and what isn't when it comes to multiboxing. I know in Diablo 3, if you use a multibox where all the characters move and attack together because it's sending identical commands to each computer, it wasn't allowed.

This is seriosuly something Zeni needs to clearly define.

I agree. We need some clarification on this issue from ZoS.

SnowmanDK · May 2014

Just to make one thing clear.
I started this thread as I have seen quite a few players that follow the bots, NOT the other way around, and they don't hit the mobs the bots hit, they just heal the bots, which gives them a share in the drops.
With regards to the 100k gold an hour. That was an actual player that claimed he made that by healing the bots as I described above.

In my opinion that makes them JUST as guilty as the bots, espeically as they actually help keeping the bots alive.

Some people would probably be happy it's not up to me, because if it was, then players using the bots should be banned, NO matter if they paid up front. They break the rules they accept to abide!