Oblivion_Protocol wrote: »

Change it back? Absolutely not. Sorcs finally got a halfway decent burst heal that more than makes up for the swap from minor to major vitality. We’re not rolling that back just because you’re missing one small buff.

Clannfear and Matriarch are both excellent burst heals. We can even keep shroud as a burst heal, but give us back the better buff.

There aren't many sources of Major Vit, and we already get Minor Vit from Ozezon.

VaxtinTheWolf wrote: »

The skill just functions differently between the morphs now. So like anything else with these updates, you'll just have to take whatever the most important effect is for your setup and deal with it. Don't ignore that the heal also effects your allies now, and your Ward is buffed through the Vitality effect with some small healing for yourself as well, if you are using that.

I was also using Restraining Prison on my tank, so I lost the 6 second immobilization which feels really bad. Now if I want it back, I'll have to exchange the heal for some unnoticeable damage and only 4 seconds of CC. Both morphs apply Minor Maim now for reducing enemy damage as a tiny bonus, I guess.

I'd like to use the healing morph, but I'll have to figure out if Shattering Prison still has more value because Crowd Control is Crowd Control and people like to whine when the enemies feet aren't glued to the ground.

Yep, I liked using it in trash packs too. It's not just different, it's weaker now and less useful and costs more. The group heal is nice for sorc healing, but the loss of Major Vit makes tanking less fun.

Soarora wrote: »

I never used the vitality to be honest. I am unhappy about the essentially nerf from 6 to 4 seconds but 4 seconds seems to be the standard so can’t really complain. Doesn’t actually feel that bad in content but I haven’t pugged anything yet because I know random vet will be the new dungeons. I just swapped to shattering. Some damage is nice but the explosion randomly is a little alarming.

Minor Vitality is 10s long, not 4s. It also does Major Maim for 10s so they line up perfectly.

Love the new skills, losing major vitality for minor with a guaranteed 10s duration instead of based on targets hit and gaining a burst aoe heal, with major maim as icing on the cake are huge. These skills were very niche before, seeing practically no use amongst the majority of players and being outpaced by just about every other comparable skill from other classes/skill lines.

This is one of the few times where I generally think ZOS nailed class skill/passive reworks across the board. Encase, Mines, Shields, and No Pet/Pet passive are all great, each have their uses now, but don't feel OP (so far).

Soarora wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

I never used the vitality to be honest. I am unhappy about the essentially nerf from 6 to 4 seconds but 4 seconds seems to be the standard so can’t really complain. Doesn’t actually feel that bad in content but I haven’t pugged anything yet because I know random vet will be the new dungeons. I just swapped to shattering. Some damage is nice but the explosion randomly is a little alarming.

Minor Vitality is 10s long, not 4s. It also does Major Maim for 10s so they line up perfectly.

Love the new skills, losing major vitality for minor with a guaranteed 10s duration instead of based on targets hit and gaining a burst aoe heal, with major maim as icing on the cake are huge. These skills were very niche before, seeing practically no use amongst the majority of players and being outpaced by just about every other comparable skill from other classes/skill lines.

This is one of the few times where I generally think ZOS nailed class skill/passive reworks across the board. Encase, Mines, Shields, and No Pet/Pet passive are all great, each have their uses now, but don't feel OP (so far).

The 4 seconds I was referring to is the immobilize. But I’ve seen archers run out of group while they have the immob crystals at their feet so…
Just feels like tanks got their immob taken away and now one skill is for healers and one is for DPS, but it’s not the end of the world. Same duration as talons, just explodes violently.

Ahhh.. Fair enough, but major maim is so much more useful than the 2s immobilize. Plus, you're no longer locked into Clanfear, can use Hardened Ward instead and use the slot for something new.

I will agree that the "damage" morph is kind of weird. Damage dealers don't really need it, nor do they have the space for it. We have more than enough delayed burst skills and this one is too slow/random/low value. Talons deals instant damage, applies minor maim, does it around instead of in front of you and has a synergy. Still a better tank immobilize, if the damage on this scaled with HP or Armor... or swapped to a Synergy, no one would bat an eye and tank Sorcs would be more well rounded.

Oblivion_Protocol wrote: »

Sorcs finally got a halfway decent burst heal that more than makes up for the swap from minor to major vitality.

Major Vitality is not easily accessible as a group buff. Minor Vitality is already easy to get.

Oblivion_Protocol wrote: »

Change it back? Absolutely not.... We’re not rolling that back just because you’re missing one small buff.

Major Vitality is not a small buff.

VaxtinTheWolf wrote: »

The skill just functions differently between the morphs now. So like anything else with these updates, you'll just have to take whatever the most important effect is for your setup and deal with it. Don't ignore that the heal also effects your allies now, and your Ward is buffed through the Vitality effect with some small healing for yourself as well, if you are using that.

I was also using Restraining Prison on my tank, so I lost the 6 second immobilization which feels really bad. Now if I want it back, I'll have to exchange the heal for some unnoticeable damage and only 4 seconds of CC. Both morphs apply Minor Maim now for reducing enemy damage as a tiny bonus, I guess.

I'd like to use the healing morph, but I'll have to figure out if Shattering Prison still has more value because Crowd Control is Crowd Control and people like to whine when the enemies feet aren't glued to the ground.

I just want to point out that Blood heal passive heals twice on the new shattering so if it's heals you're looking for, you'll get more from the immobilization one (with reduced cost) since it procs twice.

The new heal scales off of power so its not even worth for us to build it really.

TheGodlyImage wrote: »

VaxtinTheWolf wrote: »

The skill just functions differently between the morphs now. So like anything else with these updates, you'll just have to take whatever the most important effect is for your setup and deal with it. Don't ignore that the heal also effects your allies now, and your Ward is buffed through the Vitality effect with some small healing for yourself as well, if you are using that.

I was also using Restraining Prison on my tank, so I lost the 6 second immobilization which feels really bad. Now if I want it back, I'll have to exchange the heal for some unnoticeable damage and only 4 seconds of CC. Both morphs apply Minor Maim now for reducing enemy damage as a tiny bonus, I guess.

I'd like to use the healing morph, but I'll have to figure out if Shattering Prison still has more value because Crowd Control is Crowd Control and people like to whine when the enemies feet aren't glued to the ground.

I just want to point out that Blood heal passive heals twice on the new shattering so if it's heals you're looking for, you'll get more from the immobilization one (with reduced cost) since it procs twice.

The new heal scales off of power so its not even worth for us to build it really.

Why would it heal twice if it only hits once? Is it counting the initial immobilize that deals no damage for some reason?

Blood Magic: When you hit an enemy with a directly applied Dark Magic ability, you heal for 1600 (10%). This effect can occur once every half second and scales off your Max Health.

The passive doesn't technically say direct damage, it says directly applied so I suppose that makes sense.

It should work that way as the passive states that it applies when you hit an enemy with a directly applied dark magic ability. It has a half second cooldown.
This implies that its heal will proc under the following 2 conditions:
1. Applying a Dark magic ability directly to an enemy. (i.e. hit an enemy with a dark magic ability)
2. Dealing direct damage to an enemy with a dark magic ability.

Shattering Spines technically does proc both of these conditions and does proc them 4 seconds apart:
1. It attempts to apply its immobilize effect (and applies the maim effect) to any enemy hit by the initial cast, (this fulfils condition no. 1. above)
2. It deals its damage (direct damage) after the effect applied on cast ends, (this fulfils condition no. 2. above)

So it technically fulfills both proc conditions with 1 cast of the ability and does so 4 seconds apart so it doesn't conflict with the 0.5 second cooldown on the blood magic passive.

As for Negate damage morph, my guess is that it counts as damage over time, so technically the initial cast will hit an enemy and directly apply the silence to the enemies within its AoE (can't remember if the first damage tick is instant too) and will proc blood magic on that initial cast, but because it's counted as a DoT (and the silence is an over time effect applied to the area) the rest of the ticks (and silences if someone walks into it) are not counted as "directly applied" instances of damage, just the remaining damage over time ticks of the initial cast.
Needs testing to confirm, but this is my theory why negate doesn't proc it outside of the initial cast.