SilverBride wrote: »

The bottom line is that players have 2 choices. If they are happy with ESO they should keep playing. If they are unhappy with ESO they should consider if it's time for them to move on to something else.

Trying to prove that ESO is not worth playing is not one of those choices.

That is not for you to determine.

Or how they should play.

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Elvenheart wrote: »

erdYrrson wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Surgee wrote: »

The result is that tens of millions of players tried the game, and only few thousand are left playing, probably somewhere at around 1-2% of total accounts (24 million subscribed, and around 200k returning apparently, but that number seems bloated). That's a pretty bad result.

Where is the data to back this up?

Elvenheart wrote: »

😂

https://mmo-population.com/

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8008510/#Comment_8008510

Elvenheart wrote: »

How interesting…even though the data may not be accurate, it says that ESO has over 200,000 players on a day. This is much larger than “only a few thousand left playing” so still…😂

And you keep quoting that person out of context. That, is literally called propaganda.

This is what they said

"and only few thousand are left playing, probably somewhere at around 1-2% of total accounts (24 million subscribed, and around 200k returning apparently,"

Oh, good - I see we agree that 200K is more than a few thousand…thank you! 😊

Regarding Twitch, I consider myself to be a semi-frequent Twitch viewer, because I'll often have a Twitch stream open on my iPad while I'm playing ESO or some other game, and occasionally even when I'm not playing games, but I don't usually watch Twitch streams 7 days a week. I don't know how closely I fit the profile of a "typical Twitch viewer," so obviously the following observations might not apply to the majority of Twitch viewers.

When I watch Twitch, I tend to lurk rather than chatting with the streamer and other viewers, since I'm usually playing a game myself at the same time. If the stream gets really interesting, I might temporarily turn away from my game to follow the action and conversations, but for the most part I'm more focused on whatever game I'm playing.

I tend to watch streams from streamers I'm following because I enjoy their personalities, knowledge about the game, or the specific games they enjoy playing. But I don't always watch specific streamers, as I have a number of games that I follow so I can see whenever anyone is streaming those games. Most of the games I follow are games I own but haven't started playing yet, or which I tried to play but had trouble getting into them, or games I think I might be interested in buying someday. I also follow games which I'm actively playing right now, of course, but I own a lot more games than I'm actively playing.

I tend to watch ESO streamers when drops are on, or when there's a Bethesda stream on (including the international ones), or when there's a streamer talking about something within the game that I'm not very familiar with yet. I don't generally watch streamers who are running dungeons, arenas, trials, or the Infinite Archive unless it's instructional, partly because I'm usually playing ESO or another game myself and most of the time I'm just listening to the stream rather than watching closely, and partly because it can difficult for me to follow all of the action, especially if the streamer is part of a group and there are a lot of colorful effects happening.

Aside from that, I tend to watch other games instead of ESO, mainly because I tend to watch something different than what I'm playing at the time and I'm usually playing ESO, so I might watch something like Daggerfall or Baldur's Gate while I'm playing ESO, then watch ESO while I'm playing something like Arena or Daggerfall.

It seems to me that most of the games I follow tend to have low numbers of viewers, and whenever there's a huge spike in the number of viewers it's almost always because some streamer who has a large following has decided to stream that game. Thus, it seems to me that most viewers are more interested in watching specific streamers than in watching specific games. In some cases it can be easy to see why certain streamers are so popular, because they seem to be very personable and fun to watch and listen to, or because they seem to be very knowledgeable about specific series or types of games. You usually get one or the other-- a streamer who's fun to watch but doesn't know much about a game yet, or a streamer who knows a lot but might not be as lively and fun to watch-- but occasionally you'll run into streamers who satisfy both characteristics, and they will typically be able to pull in large numbers of viewers. Or maybe they just have a lot of bots watching, but judging by my own inclination to either continue watching or look for a different channel, I'd guess that they have a lot of actual viewers rather than a lot of bots.

GrizzlyTank wrote: »

Combat is still depressingly dull.

Like i want to love this game and complete the story, but can't endure more than short sessions due to the combat feeling all around bad.

WoW has snappy combat, GW2 has smooth and FFXIV has flashy. ESO has none, you hit like a noodle, the sound design is lacking, the animations are wat and the skill system competes with the normal/heavy attack system.

I play pvp mainly.

I've played the MMOs you listed and combat in ESO is the best for me because of the high ceiling. Sure it's janky as *** but that's what i love about it. Light attack weaving, dodge roll cancelling, weapon swap cancelling, and even sheathing your weapon before opening a door when being chased by a zerg, knowing which rocks/areas can be used to LOS, etc.

Things that when you know how to do lets you do much better is so freakin fun. Some people call it sweaty, but I don't mind. GW2 comes close to this, and is probably equal in terms of skill ceiling but I found WvW (Cyro equivalent) to be lacking for roaming.

On the other hand, ESO's PVE story content is mind numbingly dull because of lack of difficulty.

I like the game and comes back from time to time after long breaks, but always leaves again because of the combat and the animations.

Came back after necrom went on sale on steam, and are surprised to see everyone saying that it's dying

Sentinel wrote: »

I fell in love with the story telling and the engaging PvE (at the time). Over time PvE became a walk in the park, and I was looking for an adventure rather than a stroll. Both have their place in gaming of course, but I got a lot more joy in the adventure and thrill of facing tough odds in the open world. Pre-One Tamriel I was the type to make a character go into an overleveled zone and fight with only my fists, but you cannot really recreate this nowadays as far as I know.

Obviously someone might say "Well why don't you go play Dark Souls then?" to which I'll say: I did. And I love the thrill and meticulous dance of combat in those games more than in TESO, which is why I've been playing souls-likes for the last few years rather than TESO.

You can have some of that in ESO too, though not in the PVE quests unfortunately.

Soloing the harder world bosses and world events such as harrowstorms feels enaging to me. Same with instanced content such as the dungeons and arenas.

I have to actually fight something, and it fights back. I can die. And even if I don't die, success is not guaranteed because I might have to do a certain amount of damage at the same time, or do some mechanic.

DLC world bosses and events was all I did for months for the purpose of collecting those achievements. That was a much more satisfying overland experience for me.

Hard stuff where I die and try again until I figure out how to not die as often. Sometimes I rely on strong builds. Other times I've arrived at a scene while doing something else and though "might as well give it a shot" and barely managed to scape by with a weak build. Out of health, out of stamina, out of magicka, potion on cooldown and getting off one heavy attack to get some resources back so I can cast a heal, then turning the tide. That kind of stuff is satisfying.

Also, as opposed to when questing, I appreciate the arrival of other players.

Some times it's nice to just run around in the overland collecting materials, XP and enemy loot too of course.

I think they've done a much better job in the later zones however. It's still as easy generally, but there are more pockets of higher challenge one can venture into, so that's a pretty good compromise in my opinion.

While overland difficulty has it's own dedicated 200+ page thread, suffice it to say that the fundamental issue seems to be that the population is divided into segments with widely diverging capabilities and preferences, to the point that matching a single piece of content to them all may not be possible. Allowing players to select between options sutiable to their preferences would likely be better for both ends of the spectrum.

Tandor wrote: »

...just a few unhappy mainly ex-players on a forum...

This brings up a point I wish they would address.

In my opinion those that do not actively play should not have access to post on the forums. No one can have an accurate view of how the game is today if they haven't experienced it in its current form, and those posts bring nothing constructive to the discussion. I don't know how they would enforce this since a subscription isn't required to play, but I'm sure there could be a way.

Trejgon wrote: »

I am not seeing much of options of how ZoS is supposed to be able to distinguish active player from someone whom quit, and someone who is just playing the newest quests when they drop and then go on a break, and do in in a fair and automated way so that it is not additional expense in form of having people actively monitor forums users for game activity.

I am not sure how it could be done either, but I believe they somehow monitor things like this to approve for crown gifting so there may be a way.

SilverBride wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

...just a few unhappy mainly ex-players on a forum...

This brings up a point I wish they would address.

In my opinion those that do not actively play should not have access to post on the forums. No one can have an accurate view of how the game is today if they haven't experienced it in its current form, and those posts bring nothing constructive to the discussion. I don't know how they would enforce this since a subscription isn't required to play, but I'm sure there could be a way.

In my opinion, anyone that has given money to ZOS at any point can be considered a costumer and should have the right to speak, you'd be surprised how many people are not actively playing but still care for the direction of the game and/or are waiting for the right change to come back. They should have the right to speak and read the forums.

Maybe you are thinking that they may be paid by WoW devs to spread chaos etc. (using this as a silly example) I get that, it's a competitive market and shady stuff like that definitely happen, but not everyone is a paid actor, so I say let them speak.

Adremal wrote: »

Why on Earth would you suggest such a totalitarian restriction is frankly beyond me.

Because it makes sense. How can a poster give feedback on something they haven't experienced themselves? Playing even a year ago is not the same as playing today so all feedback given by these posters would be based on an outdated experience.

I don't understand why a poster that has left the game and moved on is still posting.

SilverBride wrote: »

The bottom line is that players have 2 choices. If they are happy with ESO they should keep playing. If they are unhappy with ESO they should consider if it's time for them to move on to something else.

Trying to prove to others that ESO is not worth playing is not one of those choices.

There is a 3rd scenario here but overall I agree. The 3rd one is: you are happy with ESO but are stuck with your main class which you find boring or its broken/bad (Necromancer) and find it hard to play for a long periods of time.

Thats where I am at. Love the game, love TES lore but find it hard to play cuz Necro is so bad but it’s my main and I don’t have time to make a new one and redo all that content.

SilverBride wrote: »

Adremal wrote: »

What exactly wasn't clear in my post about people being able to see in what state the game is through former guildies, friends, streamers and the like? Why would you deny them access? What about players who might be undecided as to whether return or not? Should they also be denied access - thereby turning them away? Sorry, but I see very little in the way of sense in your proposal.

I edited my post to clarify "How can a poster give feedback on something they haven't experienced themselves?" because word of mouth from others, or watching streamers with their commentary is all second hand feedback, not actual experience.

Those that wish to return or not can still read the forums and read feedback based on current experiences, which is much more accurate than the feedback of those that haven't played in a long time.

Some of the feedback will be positive and some will be negative but at least it would all be based on those actually experiencing the current state of the game.

So the opinion of someone who watches a streamer or has friends who still play the game is invalid, and asking questions is strictly forbidden (questions that might help them getting a more accurate picture of the situation). But hey, let's implement a system that gives more relevance to posts the more hours a user put into the game while we're at it, why not?

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Customers have a right to voice their opinion regardless of the state of the game. ....

That depends.

Adremal wrote: »

SomeoneSo the opinion of someone who watches a streamer or has friends who still play the game is invalid, and asking questions is strictly forbidden (questions that might help them getting a more accurate picture of the situation). But hey, let's implement a system that gives more relevance to posts the more hours a user put into the game while we're at it, why not?

That is not what I said. A former player may certainly ask friends and even watch streamers for information because they are getting it first hand from those that are still playing. And they can come to the forums and read active players' current feedback. But a former player then coming to the forums and passing on second hand information is heresay.