Meter radius size skills rework

yadibroz · March 8

They should change all the skills that are 3 meter to at least 5 to 6 like they did with sorceress and that would make those skills more useful and also make all skills that are 3 second be longer like to 6 seconds but especially in pve but for pvp, it can stay to 3 second or 4.
Also they should make frozen retreat be a skill that pull all enemies together than a single enemy like Rune Of Displacement.

Malyore · March 8

I can never recall, do any abilities actually say "radius"? Because I remember seeing something that was like a 3 meter radius, but it was super tiny. As if they got radius vs diameter confused. But when I went to look at my aoe skills I didn't see anything with thr word radius. I don't recall where I saw it. I think if they actually meant radius when they say it though then the abilities would be nicely sized

Necrotech_Master · March 8

Malyore wrote: »

I can never recall, do any abilities actually say "radius"? Because I remember seeing something that was like a 3 meter radius, but it was super tiny. As if they got radius vs diameter confused. But when I went to look at my aoe skills I didn't see anything with thr word radius. I don't recall where I saw it. I think if they actually meant radius when they say it though then the abilities would be nicely sized

most things that have an aoe usually specify a radius

the smallest ones i think are 2 meter radius (i think pillar of nirn is a 2 meter radius), the way i like to compare is that a single character is probably about 1 meter radius in terms of space, as the 2 meter radius of pillar is slightly bigger than our characters

i would probably say the average size of most things is 4-5 meters already, and a lot of the ground aoe already have a large radius (i think the templar cleansing ritual is one of the larger ones at 12 meters, and echoing vigor affects 15 meters), and for another reference max range on most ranged attacks is 28 meters (the companions blood fountain is 28 meters in range and is HUGE area of effect)

for the OP the only thing i think they should update are "melee aoe" skills that still have 5 meter radius, when melee range itself is actually 7 meters

for example dagger cloak is 5 meter radius, but melee range when you can use most other melee attacks is 7 meters, so its very possible you could be hitting an enemy "in melee range" and they could still be outside of the range of dagger cloak

yadibroz · March 8

Malyore wrote: »

I can never recall, do any abilities actually say "radius"? Because I remember seeing something that was like a 3 meter radius, but it was super tiny. As if they got radius vs diameter confused. But when I went to look at my aoe skills I didn't see anything with thr word radius. I don't recall where I saw it. I think if they actually meant radius when they say it though then the abilities would be nicely sized

We need those abilities to have big size than small size for enemies that is a bit far from you than super close to you.

Malyore · March 8

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

most things that have an aoe usually specify a radius

If that is the case then I feel like they are saying radius when they mean diameter. If they say something has a 3 meter radius, that is gonna be a 6 meter (over 19 feet) wide circle. The circles never feels that large. Maybe I should go in and get some screenshots to see if I'm just crazy.

ItsNotLiving · March 8

They need to standardize all skills centered around the player to be 7m since the new melee range is 7m after u41. Skills like Arctic Blast and Deadly Cloak now have a shorter range than Dizzing Swing and Arterial Burst which is super silly.

MashmalloMan · March 11

ItsNotLiving wrote: »

They need to standardize all skills centered around the player to be 7m since the new melee range is 7m after u41. Skills like Arctic Blast and Deadly Cloak now have a shorter range than Dizzing Swing and Arterial Burst which is super silly.

Yes.

Not to mention the terrible 2s tick frequency. AOE Self Applied DOTs not only have terrible range, but they also have terrible status effect chance (1%).

AOE Enemy Target Applied DOTS behave as single target and stick (3%), so the 2s tick rate and AOE size don't generally matter all that much.

Hurricane/Boundless Storm became even more unreliable than they already were with that change to tick frequency, the 7m melee range was a nail in the coffin. Makes me sad.

There should really be a standard introduced that is something like:

Tick frequency = Every 1s instead of every 2s so hit detection is measured properly.
Radius = 7m instead of 5m so melee enemies can't avoid the damage while still hitting you in that 2m ring.
Damage over 20s = 20-30% more than single target DOTs to warrant the risk of having to be on your target constantly.

Turtle_Bot · March 11

ItsNotLiving wrote: »

They need to standardize all skills centered around the player to be 7m since the new melee range is 7m after u41. Skills like Arctic Blast and Deadly Cloak now have a shorter range than Dizzing Swing and Arterial Burst which is super silly.

Add Lightning form and morphs to that list as well.

Hurricane is useful after about 4 seconds thanks to the increase to its radius as it ticks, but boundless (mag morph) sits at 5m the whole time doing basically no damage unless you walk right on-top of the enemy and they don't move away.

Turtle_Bot · March 11

MashmalloMan wrote: »

ItsNotLiving wrote: »

They need to standardize all skills centered around the player to be 7m since the new melee range is 7m after u41. Skills like Arctic Blast and Deadly Cloak now have a shorter range than Dizzing Swing and Arterial Burst which is super silly.

Yes.

Not to mention the terrible 2s tick frequency. AOE Self Applied DOTs not only have terrible range, but they also have terrible status effect chance (1%).

AOE Enemy Target Applied DOTS behave as single target and stick (3%), so the 2s tick rate and AOE size don't generally matter all that much.

Hurricane/Boundless Storm became even more unreliable than they already were with that change to tick frequency, the 7m melee range was a nail in the coffin. Makes me sad.

There should really be a standard introduced that is something like:
Tick frequency = Every 1s instead of every 2s so hit detection is measured properly.

Radius = 7m instead of 5m so melee enemies can't avoid the damage while still hitting you in that 2m ring.

Damage over 20s = 20-30% more than single target DOTs to warrant the risk of having to be on your target constantly.

These should definitely be the base standards for AoE DoTs that stick to the caster.

I'd probably add to increase the status proc chance to be the same as single target sticky DoT (3% base) or AoE direct (5% base) since these abilities require the caster putting themselves at risk to keep the damage ticking already.

MashmalloMan · March 12

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

ItsNotLiving wrote: »

They need to standardize all skills centered around the player to be 7m since the new melee range is 7m after u41. Skills like Arctic Blast and Deadly Cloak now have a shorter range than Dizzing Swing and Arterial Burst which is super silly.

Yes.

Not to mention the terrible 2s tick frequency. AOE Self Applied DOTs not only have terrible range, but they also have terrible status effect chance (1%).

AOE Enemy Target Applied DOTS behave as single target and stick (3%), so the 2s tick rate and AOE size don't generally matter all that much.

Hurricane/Boundless Storm became even more unreliable than they already were with that change to tick frequency, the 7m melee range was a nail in the coffin. Makes me sad.

There should really be a standard introduced that is something like:
Tick frequency = Every 1s instead of every 2s so hit detection is measured properly.

Radius = 7m instead of 5m so melee enemies can't avoid the damage while still hitting you in that 2m ring.

Damage over 20s = 20-30% more than single target DOTs to warrant the risk of having to be on your target constantly.

These should definitely be the base standards for AoE DoTs that stick to the caster.

I'd probably add to increase the status proc chance to be the same as single target sticky DoT (3% base) or AoE direct (5% base) since these abilities require the caster putting themselves at risk to keep the damage ticking already.

I don't think I'd like that personally. Increasing status effect chance is typically an auxiliary unique effect and balanced around the given class, weapon, or guild line. Adding that to all of them seems a bit heavy handed and frankly lazy. I love the idea of status effects and all elements being viable now, but I don't like that being the best playstyle for most skills, classes, or builds to fall back on.

The 20-30% suggested increased damage and 1s tick rate would be enough imo to warrant the added risk it has while indirectly improving status effect chance and proc chances for 100s of sets that sticky dots wouldn't get as much benefit from. Bonuses like damage done double dip as well.

MashmalloMan · March 12

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

ItsNotLiving wrote: »

They need to standardize all skills centered around the player to be 7m since the new melee range is 7m after u41. Skills like Arctic Blast and Deadly Cloak now have a shorter range than Dizzing Swing and Arterial Burst which is super silly.

Add Lightning form and morphs to that list as well.

Hurricane is useful after about 4 seconds thanks to the increase to its radius as it ticks, but boundless (mag morph) sits at 5m the whole time doing basically no damage unless you walk right on-top of the enemy and they don't move away.

Try 8s lol. They're so much worse than you think.

5m radius = 20 - 12.1s = 3 ticks (18, 16, 14)
7m radius = 12 - 6.1s = 3 ticks (12, 10, 8)
9m radius = 6 - 0s = 4 ticks (6, 4, 2, 0)

Hurricane/Boundless Storm also don't tick on cast/refresh, despite other skills in the same category all setting a standard that they should. I've tested Deadly Cloak, Solar Barrage, Arctic Blast, and Blood Mist, all of them tick on refresh.

Dead cast. YAY!

I've also done tests of walking/sprinting past a dummy and there is enough time in that 2s window to basically never hit the dummy, it's hilariously bad. The ticks are hard locked to the abilities 2s intervals so it's not like it automatically fires the moment someone steps in it. You can actually time exactly when to enter/exit to not take any damage. Although that will never happen, it's a testament to how RNG dependent these skills are.

Turtle_Bot · March 12

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

ItsNotLiving wrote: »

They need to standardize all skills centered around the player to be 7m since the new melee range is 7m after u41. Skills like Arctic Blast and Deadly Cloak now have a shorter range than Dizzing Swing and Arterial Burst which is super silly.

Add Lightning form and morphs to that list as well.

Hurricane is useful after about 4 seconds thanks to the increase to its radius as it ticks, but boundless (mag morph) sits at 5m the whole time doing basically no damage unless you walk right on-top of the enemy and they don't move away.

Try 8s lol. They're so much worse than you think.

5m radius = 20 - 12.1s = 3 ticks (18, 16, 14)
7m radius = 12 - 6.1s = 3 ticks (12, 10, 8)
9m radius = 6 - 0s = 4 ticks (6, 4, 2, 0)

Hurricane/Boundless Storm also don't tick on cast/refresh, despite other skills in the same category all setting a standard that they should. I've tested Deadly Cloak, Solar Barrage, Arctic Blast, and Blood Mist, all of them tick on refresh.

Dead cast. YAY!

I've also done tests of walking/sprinting past a dummy and there is enough time in that 2s window to basically never hit the dummy, it's hilariously bad. The ticks are hard locked to the abilities 2s intervals so it's not like it automatically fires the moment someone steps in it. You can actually time exactly when to enter/exit to not take any damage. Although that will never happen, it's a testament to how RNG dependent these skills are.

Dang, 8 seconds is insane... no wonder many sorcs are still slotting chudan over this ability, even after the buffs sorc got.

Yeah, that 2s tick rate is absurd, the fact that enemies can just walk through it without taking any damage at all should never be a thing, especially if it was cast while they were inside the radius.

moderatelyfatman · March 14

I think they should increase melee range to 20m to make up for the janky performance and lag.