is using bots instead of reporting them bannable?

nihonseanb14_ESO · May 2014

Obviously no one on the zeni side cares. Do whatever you want everyone else seems to be.

paradoxorganisationb16_ESO · May 2014

Why would it be banable as long as it's a person controlling the toon? Then you might aswell ban people for farming mats, gold or exp for thier skill lines too. It's not the players fault (directly) that there are bot running around where they want to farm per say.

Boneidle · May 2014

So what I get from this is the guy is running around with the group of bots getting a hit in on their kills and collecting his rewards. I don't see how this is bannable at all. Yes the bots are running in a pack and breaking the T&Cs but the guy following them is just following them and killing stuff.

So this is where I guess some people take my comment above and start to set a fire under me. But let me explain my point of view on it. The issue here is that he is following bots and collecting his rewards, kind of follow the leader in a way he might enjoy such a lame mini game but that's his choice. So if you take the whole concept of bots out of the picture and the guy is following a large group of players around getting a hit on what they kill and then collects his reward, he is doing exactly the same thing. The only difference here is that he would be folloing a group of other players.

Yes its clear who are bots i mean a train of 4 Templars spamming the same skill constantly is blatantly obvious but is it against the rules to follow other people and kill what they are killing after all there is no "tagging" of enemies (by tagging I mean everyone gets something not just the first person to hit it). If he was following a large group of players around instead would you ban him then? if so what for?

What people don't seem to realise is that in some areas lets say Vivecs antlers you have no choice but to run with a bot pack because there are so many killing the quest mobs, its a quest line which leads on to more so if you wish to do those quests at some point you are going to be attacking with the bots. As long as that guy doesn't start to bot himself then he isn't breaking any rules in my eyes.

Soloeus · May 2014

vstadenerwb17_ESO wrote: »

100k gold an hour? I call BS

With an insta-spawn Jute, think about your rate of Raw Jute to refine with 3 ranks in the skill that gives mats.

Now, think about vendoring all that jute while selling the rest to players. What, 100 purple, 20 gold mats a day?

It is a serious issue and will hopefully be solved very soon.

stefaan.de.wasch1b16_ESO · May 2014

Soloeus wrote: »

vstadenerwb17_ESO wrote: »

100k gold an hour? I call BS

With an insta-spawn Jute, think about your rate of Raw Jute to refine with 3 ranks in the skill that gives mats.

Now, think about vendoring all that jute while selling the rest to players. What, 100 purple, 20 gold mats a day?

It is a serious issue and will hopefully be solved very soon.

100 purples and 20 gold mats a day still doesn't rack up to 100K per hour man... You're talking "a day" well, that would make it 2.4 mil gold a day

paradoxorganisationb16_ESO · May 2014

I don't know about 100k per hour anf there are other things bots are doing then farming mats. As per the gold rate earning of myself just doing normal stuff playing the game i wouldn't put it behind me that it was possible.

Then again with the 2 duping bugs in the game i've seen legit SS of players having 72 billion gold

ElliottXO · May 2014

Soloeus wrote: »

vstadenerwb17_ESO wrote: »

100k gold an hour? I call BS

With an insta-spawn Jute, think about your rate of Raw Jute to refine with 3 ranks in the skill that gives mats.

Now, think about vendoring all that jute while selling the rest to players. What, 100 purple, 20 gold mats a day?

It is a serious issue and will hopefully be solved very soon.

They claim to make 100k per hour by following bots who kill mobs. I do also call that BS.

Big_Bob · May 2014

paradoxorganisationb16_ESO wrote: »

Why would it be banable as long as it's a person controlling the toon? Then you might aswell ban people for farming mats, gold or exp for thier skill lines too. It's not the players fault (directly) that there are bot running around where they want to farm per say.

Ever heard the phrase " Aiding and abetting a fugitive is a criminal felony"?

It means an individual can be charged with when they help someone to commit a crime. They are an accessory to a crime committed even if they did not directly commit the crime.

Put it into this perspective. You're aiding the goldsellers by buying items from them. You're intentionally healing or joining in the bot congo line to kill mobs to benefit from it. This is only applicable to those who 'intentionally' follow the bot train around and join in farming with the bots for hours on end.

AlexDougherty · May 2014

SnowmanDK wrote: »

Is it bannable or not?

Depends on what ZOS decide, personally I lean towards it being bannable, because it is masking illegal activity (well against the TOS), thus can be construed as aiding them. However he isn't actually using a bot, so they may take a different view.

Zeeed · May 2014

U *** joking ??

They cant even ban bots not to mention players running with them LOL

AlliN · May 2014

Why would it be banable as long as it's a person controlling the toon?

Becasue YOU don't control other 3 characters that run with you. Stop this damn grey area nonsense.

YOU DO NOT CONTROL YOUR BOT FOLLOWERS.

3rd party program controls them for you, based on your input in the main character. There is no small print, there is no "maybe, if, well, some, slightly, almost"

You do not control them.

Using 3rd party software IS a bannable offence, end of story. Unless you want to tell me you are godess Kali with 8 hands, and you use 4 keyobards and mouses at once. Then, maybe get help right away.

You bot defenders make me sick. Only a person with moral spine of amoeba does not see the problem in botting or bot party abusing.

AlexDougherty · May 2014

paradoxorganisationb16_ESO wrote: »

It's not the players fault (directly) that there are bot running around where they want to farm per say.

Yes it is, if they are deliberately choosing to farm alongside bots (which is what the OP said) then it is their fault

Monyan · May 2014

Personally I also would like to know, what to do. Lately I've got the situation: I saw three bots running in circles and killing the same mobs. So as usual I reported them all. But 3 minutes after this I made another ticket saying that one of them isn't bot so please don't ban this player. It was because I saw he suddenly stopped and start "reading". Additionaly he had no prisoner's clothes. The thing was he was running precisely with bots and had some stupid name...

AlexDougherty · May 2014

Monyan wrote: »

Personally I also would like to know, what to do. Lately I've got the situation: I saw three bots running in circles and killing the same mobs. So as usual I reported them all. But 3 minutes after this I made another ticket saying that one of them isn't bot so please don't ban this player. It was because I saw he suddenly stopped and start "reading". Additionaly he had no prisoner's clothes. The thing was he was running precisely with bots and had some stupid name...

If he ran with Bots, then he dies with Bots, little sympathy from me.
If on the other hand he was merely following part of their rout whilst doing the quest/exploring and wasn't farming with them, then I feel for him.
It all depends on what you saw and what he was doing.

As For Stupid names I have a Khajit named Mwror and an Argonian named Mwelret, which might be mistaken for random button pushes, but the names were actually thought out. So unless I see something like fghfghfgd I don't judge.

Monyan · May 2014

As For Stupid names I have a Khajit named Mwror and an Argonian named Mwelret, which might be mistaken for random button pushes, but the names were actually thought out. So unless I see something like fghfghfgd I don't judge.

Bot creators are sometimes more creative than a stone though

For example last weeks I saw names looking far or close like linkinpark orledzeppelin. Who uses favourite bands name in fantasy world game for God's sake?

But seriously there ARE really sometimes like non bots names. Only sometimes.

Boneidle · May 2014

AlliN wrote: »

Why would it be banable as long as it's a person controlling the toon?

Becasue YOU don't control other 3 characters that run with you. Stop this damn grey area nonsense.

YOU DO NOT CONTROL YOUR BOT FOLLOWERS.

3rd party program controls them for you, based on your input in the main character. There is no small print, there is no "maybe, if, well, some, slightly, almost"

You do not control them.

Using 3rd party software IS a bannable offence, end of story. Unless you want to tell me you are godess Kali with 8 hands, and you use 4 keyobards and mouses at once. Then, maybe get help right away.

You bot defenders make me sick. Only a person with moral spine of amoeba does not see the problem in botting or bot party abusing.

First off all let me point out that from what I understand someone found a group of bots and followed them. So at no point did they say he controlled them just that he followed them around. Also what you are saying about controlling a main character and the other ones following your actions that is multi boxing. Bots are completely controlled by 3rd party software no actual input from the person controlling the account.

Multi boxing doesn't necessarily mean that you are a bot it means that you have 2 or more character under your control linked to one keyboard which gives actions to all box's (box's in this case being game clients) so there is actually someone sat their controlling them, across pretty much all mmo's multi boxing is accepted, I'm guessing you have never tried it yourself, because if you had you would realise that to multi box is actually a lot harder than people think.

Also I must have missed something I haven't seen anyone defending a bot here. If a person who has absolutely nothing to do with the bots runs their route why should he be banned. If he is following other players characters around why should he be banned.

That would mean anyone who has run through an area where there is a group of people killing mobs should be banned, which lets face it everyone has come across an area where there are other players killing the mobs in an area.

If a guy follows some bots then technically he is still following other characters around, yes they are controlled by a 3rd party software but that has nothing to do with him, why should other people be punished for what someone else does. I am guessing he doesn't know the owners of the accounts so it doesn't even make him guilty by association. Now if he knew the people controlling the bots or had something to do with the bots themselves that's a different story but for anyone what wants to jump on the game and follow someone else farming around what's the issue.

It would pretty much become a solo game rather than a mmo if you banned people for doing the same as others and taking the same routes.

smosti · May 2014

How can you ban someone for running around collecting resources? rofl... common sense people, common sense!

Dunhilda · May 2014

You're not botting?

Therefore you're free to do as you please

The Comments here would suggest you could be banned for attacking the same mob, this isn't the case Zeni designed the system to ensure all that did the damage get loot.

Also not reporting can't get you banned.

AlliN · May 2014

Multi boxing doesn't necessarily mean that you are a bot it means that you have 2 or more character under your control linked to one keyboard which gives actions to all box's (box's in this case being game clients) so there is actually someone sat their controlling them, across pretty much all mmo's multi boxing is accepted, I'm guessing you have never tried it yourself, because if you had you would realise that to multi box is actually a lot harder than people think.

Please, do tell me, what windows functionality allowy you to input commands to multiple processes at once, with the same input device. So, in that case, let say, 4 opened clients.

Let me help you - there is NO EARTHLY way of doing that without 3rd party software, becasue windows architecture only input commands from I/O devices to an ACTIVE process, and there may be only one active process at a time, even if you have multiple processes going on. You would have to alt-tab between all of them, and that's not what happens when you multibox, unless you are really desperate and then it's not very effective in any way.

You have to use 3rd party software like hydra or autohotkey to multiply commands across opened processes, so no, you don't control them, software does.

You may push that crap onto the ignorant meek, not on someone who actualy knows one or two things about windows.

And my statement was about botters, people that run behind them trying to tag along are free to do that as they please, it's not a bannable offense in any way - they might be running behind normal players with the same results.

Cherryblossom · May 2014

I let Bots kill mobs for me in dungeons before, they were killing everything so I want to get some kills, so I just run ahead of them hitting mobs once and also pulling others into their path. I did minimal work for the kills.

I did however report them, my initial aim was trying to disrupt them but with so many it was not possible. I did have fun though

Leeta · May 2014

AlliN wrote: »

Multi boxing doesn't necessarily mean that you are a bot it means that you have 2 or more character under your control linked to one keyboard which gives actions to all box's (box's in this case being game clients) so there is actually someone sat their controlling them, across pretty much all mmo's multi boxing is accepted, I'm guessing you have never tried it yourself, because if you had you would realise that to multi box is actually a lot harder than people think.

Please, do tell me, what windows functionality allowy you to input commands to multiple processes at once, with the same input device. So, in that case, let say, 4 opened clients.

Let me help you - there is NO EARTHLY way of doing that without 3rd party software, becasue windows architecture only input commands from I/O devices to an ACTIVE process, and there may be only one active process at a time, even if you have multiple processes going on. You would have to alt-tab between all of them, and that's not what happens when you multibox, unless you are really desperate and then it's not very effective in any way.

You have to use 3rd party software like hydra or autohotkey to multiply commands across opened processes, so no, you don't control them, software does.

You may push that crap onto the ignorant meek, not on someone who actualy knows one or two things about windows.

And my statement was about botters, people that run behind them trying to tag along are free to do that as they please, it's not a bannable offense in any way - they might be running behind normal players with the same results.

Youre wrong. Not everyone who multibox uses some program. I multibox (not in this game, yet...) and yea i do alt tab. Maybe im just smarter than you and have more skills to be able to do that? Sounds like it. I have 6 accounts in EQ2 which i use to multibox since the game is pretty dead and i enjoy doing instances. So stop saying everyone who multibox is botting cause it is a flat out lie...

And on topic, i dont think any person following bots will be banned but this is a tough question since they are in a way exlpoiting an exploit. And i have reported a lot of bots and they are still there so in a way ZoS can only blame themselves if people are going to follow them around and benefit from that.

Boneidle · May 2014

Leeta wrote: »

Youre wrong. Not everyone who multibox uses some program. I multibox (not in this game, yet...) and yea i do alt tab. Maybe im just smarter than you and have more skills to be able to do that? Sounds like it. I have 6 accounts in EQ2 which i use to multibox since the game is pretty dead and i enjoy doing instances. So stop saying everyone who multibox is botting cause it is a flat out lie...

Completely agree I have 4 EvE accounts and a few monitors etc and I play all 4 together, whether it be for mining, missions, or just general playing. Also I multi boxed WoW with my 2 accounts and my misses account. When you know what you are doing its pretty easy to multi box only those who have no idea about it cry that you are cheating.

There is nothing to stop you from owning more than one account and if you have the capability of playing them at once then there is no reason that you shouldn't.

And just to clarify on my pc I have a 42" screen as my primary display and a 32" as my secondary display I can easily window more than one instance of a game at a time, meaning alt tabbing isn't specifically necessary due to the fact that I can just mouse from one active window to another, this means that none of my clients would have to be minimized.

Also a Bot is defined as "a general term in gaming that is used to refer to a character controlled by a computer. In one sense, bots are all the non-player characters (NPCs) in a game, including those that fight alongside as well as against the gamer. However, the definition of bots has broadened to include gamers who employ third-party programs to control their characters."

A bot is controlled by 3rd party software not someone sat behind it telling it what to do

crush83 · May 2014

Leeta wrote: »

I multibox (not in this game, yet...) and yea i do alt tab.

I don't mean to be rude, but using alt-tab to switch between two open clients isn't considered multi-boxing as defined in this thread. You aren't controlling both accounts simultaneously with a single source of input.

AlliN · May 2014

Youre wrong. Not everyone who multibox uses some program. I multibox (not in this game, yet...) and yea i do alt tab. Maybe im just smarter than you and have more skills to be able to do that?

Yes, you are smarter than me, becasue you alt-tab to use multiple accounts. I bow to your skills of NOT UNDERSTANDING written text. Shame you are not smart enough to read comprehensively. I said:

Let me help you - there is NO EARTHLY way of doing that without 3rd party software, becasue windows architecture only input commands from I/O devices to an ACTIVE process, and there may be only one active process at a time, even if you have multiple processes going on. You would have to alt-tab between all of them, and that's not what happens when you multibox, unless you are really desperate and then it's not very effective in any way.

You, yes, very smart. Very perceptive. Did you just called alt-tabbing "skill"? What a clown.

You really don't see the difference between multiboxing and playing multiple accounts? Playing multiple accounts is just that, and it's ok by any means. Multiboxing is playing multiple accounts SIMULTANEOUSLY. Those are NOT the same things.
And botting, by the very freaking deffinition of BOT is having an unmanned, unsupervised automation. That's what BOT is, like gameplay NPC. Characters that are running behind you, are not UNMANNED, if you stop pressing keys THEY STOP. That is not botting. That is automated multiboxing.

crush83 wrote: »

Leeta wrote: »

I multibox (not in this game, yet...) and yea i do alt tab.

I don't mean to be rude, but using alt-tab to switch between two open clients isn't considered multi-boxing as defined in this thread. You aren't controlling both accounts simultaneously with a single source of input.

Exactly, Is it that hard to understand?

Kyosji · May 2014

I call bogus on the 100k an hour, but I don't see how it is a bannable offense to run after bots, hitting the mobs, and collecting the loot. There is no difference between that and attacking a mob someone else is attacking just to get some loot off of it, so it's not an exploit. Unless you are the one controlling the bots, or you have a program that auto follows the bots and attacks, you aren't breaking any rules or exploiting.

crush83 · May 2014

AlliN wrote: »

And botting, by the very freaking deffinition of BOT is having an unmanned, unsupervised automation. That's what BOT is, like gameplay NPC. Characters that are running behind you, are not UNMANNED, if you stop pressing keys THEY STOP. That is not botting. That is automated multiboxing.

All your rudeness aside, you have a very strong point.

(Ro)bot.

Leeta · May 2014

AlliN wrote: »

Youre wrong. Not everyone who multibox uses some program. I multibox (not in this game, yet...) and yea i do alt tab. Maybe im just smarter than you and have more skills to be able to do that?

Yes, you are smarter than me, becasue you alt-tab to use multiple accounts. I bow to your skills of NOT UNDERSTANDING written text. Shame you are not smart enough to read comprehensively. I said:

Let me help you - there is NO EARTHLY way of doing that without 3rd party software, becasue windows architecture only input commands from I/O devices to an ACTIVE process, and there may be only one active process at a time, even if you have multiple processes going on. You would have to alt-tab between all of them, and that's not what happens when you multibox, unless you are really desperate and then it's not very effective in any way.

You, yes, very smart. Very perceptive. Did you just called alt-tabbing "skill"? What a clown.

You really don't see the difference between multiboxing and playing multiple accounts? Playing multiple accounts is just that, and it's ok by any means. Multiboxing is playing multiple accounts SIMULTANEOUSLY. Those are NOT the same things.
And botting, by the very freaking deffinition of BOT is having an unmanned, unsupervised automation. That's what BOT is, like gameplay NPC. Characters that are running behind you, are not UNMANNED, if you stop pressing keys THEY STOP. That is not botting. That is automated multiboxing.

crush83 wrote: »

Leeta wrote: »

I multibox (not in this game, yet...) and yea i do alt tab.

I don't mean to be rude, but using alt-tab to switch between two open clients isn't considered multi-boxing as defined in this thread. You aren't controlling both accounts simultaneously with a single source of input.

Exactly, Is it that hard to understand?

Actually multiboxing is the way i do it, using any kind of programs is actually botting....

AlliN · May 2014

All your rudeness aside, you have a very strong point.

It's hard to not get annoyed when some shmuck that can't read plain text calls himself smarter and more skilled, becasue he alt-tabs his accounts, while not being able to grasp simple nomenclature.

Actually multiboxing is the way i do it, using any kind of programs is actually botting....

It's like saying that all hot drinks are either coffee or tea. Are you really unable to distinguish more options? tell me, how can you call a bot something that stops when player stops using keyboard? that's not a bot, that's multiboxing control script.

crush83 · May 2014

AlliN wrote: »

All your rudeness aside, you have a very strong point.

It's hard to not get annoyed when some shmuck that can't read plain text calls himself smarter and more skilled, becasue he alt-tabs his accounts, while not being able to grasp simple nomenclature.

I completely agree. It's mind numbing and shocking how incapable of simple reading comprehension skills some of the people on these forums are. Just because you can read doesn't mean you comprehend what you are reading. Yet, I always get trolled when I make comments like you are making. So, good luck. Hope you're willing to fight with no lifers like the idiot who attacked my profile wall for hours upon hours yesterday because he got butt hurt that I called him out for being a ***.

Kyosji · May 2014

Also, for the multiboxing, last I heard, multiboxing was allowed ONLY if you are activly playing each character. I know many games have different deffinitions on what is allowed and what isn't when it comes to multiboxing. I know in Diablo 3, if you use a multibox where all the characters move and attack together because it's sending identical commands to each computer, it wasn't allowed.

This is seriosuly something Zeni needs to clearly define.