A boneyard rework i'd always slot

brandsnipe · February 15

Here we go again, another post from me with an idea to lift Necromancer from the gutter.

The base skill now last 20 seconds, has a 12m radius, and applies a 10 second DoT effect that sticks to enemies who enter the radius at any time during the duration. The damage increased by a consumed corpse is lowered from 30% to 15%.

Avid boneyard with the addition to be able to use your own synergy now spawns a corpse every 4 seconds.

Unnerving boneyard now has major breach stick to enemies for 10 seconds after leaving the radius.

This is a 2 birds one stone. The DoT now stick with enemies making more use of the gravelord's sacrifice morph and the major breach morph sticking frees up the bar slot ele sus took. The 12m radius puts it in line with Templar's ritual.

JerBearESO · February 15

Last I checked (that's about to sound off) graveyards aren't the size of a kiddie pool. So yeah a large area would make perfect sense.

The other aspects of the idea are pretty on point with things necro needs. Nice

Deimus · February 25

The boneyard spawning corpses makes so much sense that it's baffling that it isn't on the skill. It's thematic and allows the player to decide the location they want the corpse, which eliminates the range and melee corpse issue without the added complication of counting flaming skulls. If casting BB every 3 skills is too complex then keeping track of 3 casts of flaming skull just to generate one ranged corpse is too complex.

If they're going with the Necro is a DoT class then it needs a sticky DoT somewhere. As long as they are pushing this direction any sticky DoT application that makes sense I'm all for.

Aldoss · February 25

Too loaded with the corpse gen. ZOS will never go for it without changing potency. The graveyard would effectively give passive 100% uptime of deaden pain.

The problem with graveyard isn't that it doesn't have a sticky dot, but that it requires the cast of another ranged skill (bb) to be effective with the 30% boost and maj breach is just underwhelming compared to something like ele sus right now. I agree that maj breach should stick for a bit at minimum though.

The sticky dot should be the siphon. We know now that with the inclusion of nobility in decay and GLS that the tech exists for players to become moving corpses. Make BB's corpse stick to the target it exploded on and allow us to siphon around that person.

For graveyard, graverobber nerf needs to be reverted. I'm still really pissed about that one. Deleting harmony was warranted and already lowered graverobber to acceptable territory. Now, post nerf, graverobber hits less than a spammable and has a 20 sec cd. Absolutely absurd.

MashmalloMan · February 26

Too loaded imo, but you can convert it to match standards a bit better. You kinda need to pick which parts are going above and beyond the standard because you have about 4 things going past it, and they all do it in a big way.

20s duration, 10s dot, 12m radius, and generating corpses.

Standard based on the evidence we find from multiple classes and universal skills:

6m radius, 10s duration, 4s duration effect when hit, possible synergy, and insert x additional effect or bonus here.

With that in mind, a new version could be:

8m radius, 15s duration, 4s single target dot to enemies hit, synergy, corpse increases damage dealt by 20%.

Morph 1: Self Synergy
Morph 2: Major Breach for 4s

Even this would probably be too much. Something like the 4s dot, +5s duration, and +2m radius are enough to be their own morph effects, but they would theoretically be on the base ability here.

Could do something more balanced like:

Morph 1: Self Synergy +2m radius
Morph 2: Major Breach + dot for 4s

This way, the morphs have better differences. Morph 1 focuses on the Self Synergy, adding increased radius to help make it a stronger and easier to use AOE burst skill for the user. Morph 2 adds a 4s dot/breach, the smaller size makes more sense to provide it better counterplay, but also more forgiving in that enemies who enter/exit still continue to take damage.

francesinhalover · February 26

You had me at 20 seconds

Twohothardware · February 26

Yup, longer duration and DoT/Major Breach needs to stick to targets that pass through it.

MashmalloMan · February 26

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Too loaded imo, but you can convert it to match standards a bit better. You kinda need to pick which parts are going above and beyond the standard because you have about 4 things going past it, and they all do it in a big way.

20s duration, 10s dot, 12m radius, and generating corpses.

Standard based on the evidence we find from multiple classes and universal skills:

6m radius, 10s duration, 4s duration effect when hit, possible synergy, and insert x additional effect or bonus here.

With that in mind, a new version could be:

8m radius, 15s duration, 4s single target dot to enemies hit, synergy, corpse increases damage dealt by 20%.

Morph 1: Self Synergy
Morph 2: Major Breach for 4s

Even this would probably be too much. Something like the 4s dot, +5s duration, and +2m radius are enough to be their own morph effects, but they would theoretically be on the base ability here.

Could do something more balanced like:

Morph 1: Self Synergy +2m radius
Morph 2: Major Breach + dot for 4s

This way, the morphs have better differences. Morph 1 focuses on the Self Synergy, adding increased radius to help make it a stronger and easier to use AOE burst skill for the user. Morph 2 adds a 4s dot/breach, the smaller size makes more sense to provide it better counterplay, but also more forgiving in that enemies who enter/exit still continue to take damage.

To add to this, maybe the self synergy morph can improve the synergy damage by 20% to give back some of the original burst people liked from Harmony Bombs, but now without the overloaded Harmony aspect that was rightfully nerfed, but effected Necro's too hard.

Something like:

Boneyard: 4480 Frost Damage over 15 seconds. Consume corpse for +20% damage. Synergy deals 2249 Frost Damage + heal for damage done. 6m radius.

Unnerving Boneyard: 6m radius. 4480 Frost Damage over 15 seconds. Consume corpse for +20% damage. Synergy deals 2249 Frost Damage + heal for damage done. Major Breach and 1400 damage over 4s to enemies hit.

Avid Boneyard: 8m radius. 4480 Frost Damage over 15 seconds. Consume corpse for +20% damage. Synergy deals 2700 Frost Damage + heal for damage done, can now be used by caster.

Araneae6537 · February 26

I would like boneyard to be skeletal hands coming up like the skill many NPCs use instead of these silly gravestones. I’m a bit confused on what mechanics change you are proposing as it’s been a while since I used and so I don’t recall what all it does cutrently.

MashmalloMan · February 26

Araneae6537 wrote: »

I would like boneyard to be skeletal hands coming up like the skill many NPCs use instead of these silly gravestones. I’m a bit confused on what mechanics change you are proposing as it’s been a while since I used and so I don’t recall what all it does cutrently.

Yeah I really expected that animation to make it into Necro's kit before I actually saw what they had available to them.. but isn't it quicker to take 2 seconds to google than to comment you don't know what the ability does?

https://eso-skillbook.com/skill/boneyard

brandsnipe · February 26

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Too loaded imo, but you can convert it to match standards a bit better. You kinda need to pick which parts are going above and beyond the standard because you have about 4 things going past it, and they all do it in a big way.

20s duration, 10s dot, 12m radius, and generating corpses.

Standard based on the evidence we find from multiple classes and universal skills:

6m radius, 10s duration, 4s duration effect when hit, possible synergy, and insert x additional effect or bonus here.

With that in mind, a new version could be:

8m radius, 15s duration, 4s single target dot to enemies hit, synergy, corpse increases damage dealt by 20%.

Morph 1: Self Synergy
Morph 2: Major Breach for 4s

Even this would probably be too much. Something like the 4s dot, +5s duration, and +2m radius are enough to be their own morph effects, but they would theoretically be on the base ability here.

Could do something more balanced like:

Morph 1: Self Synergy +2m radius
Morph 2: Major Breach + dot for 4s

This way, the morphs have better differences. Morph 1 focuses on the Self Synergy, adding increased radius to help make it a stronger and easier to use AOE burst skill for the user. Morph 2 adds a 4s dot/breach, the smaller size makes more sense to provide it better counterplay, but also more forgiving in that enemies who enter/exit still continue to take damage.

Yes it is a loaded skill. Thematically i like boneyard to produce corpses, but i understand how strong this could be. What about at half the duration and end of duration a corpse spawns. My biggest complaints with boneyard is the radius size is too small and the DoT/breach dont stick. I looked at templars ritual for a good comparison, 12m radius, 2/5 negative effects cleansed, synergy for allies to heal and cleanse all negatives, 30s/20s durations, damage with 12% increase per tick/HoT. Even with retibution having the healing part removed, its a strong skill.

Lystrad · February 26

Araneae6537 wrote: »

I would like boneyard to be skeletal hands coming up like the skill many NPCs use instead of these silly gravestones. I’m a bit confused on what mechanics change you are proposing as it’s been a while since I used and so I don’t recall what all it does cutrently.

I second this. Like, conceptually how does conjuring a graveyard even work? Am I stealing a chunk of an actual graveyard from somewhere? and if I can just spawn it in, why am I not getting the bodies from it? If I'm just conjuring the headstones/earth then why aren't I manifesting it like... 20 feet in the air so that it falls on my enemies?

Though instead of skeletal hands, which admittedly would make sense given the name, I'd prefer if they renamed it and had it spawn a couple spooky ghosts that swirl around the area. Then you could maybe make the breach morph stick to the caster like an inversed hurricane to help differentiate between the two.

MashmalloMan · February 26

brandsnipe wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Too loaded imo, but you can convert it to match standards a bit better. You kinda need to pick which parts are going above and beyond the standard because you have about 4 things going past it, and they all do it in a big way.

20s duration, 10s dot, 12m radius, and generating corpses.

Standard based on the evidence we find from multiple classes and universal skills:

6m radius, 10s duration, 4s duration effect when hit, possible synergy, and insert x additional effect or bonus here.

With that in mind, a new version could be:

8m radius, 15s duration, 4s single target dot to enemies hit, synergy, corpse increases damage dealt by 20%.

Morph 1: Self Synergy
Morph 2: Major Breach for 4s

Even this would probably be too much. Something like the 4s dot, +5s duration, and +2m radius are enough to be their own morph effects, but they would theoretically be on the base ability here.

Could do something more balanced like:

Morph 1: Self Synergy +2m radius
Morph 2: Major Breach + dot for 4s

This way, the morphs have better differences. Morph 1 focuses on the Self Synergy, adding increased radius to help make it a stronger and easier to use AOE burst skill for the user. Morph 2 adds a 4s dot/breach, the smaller size makes more sense to provide it better counterplay, but also more forgiving in that enemies who enter/exit still continue to take damage.

Yes it is a loaded skill. Thematically i like boneyard to produce corpses, but i understand how strong this could be. What about at half the duration and end of duration a corpse spawns. My biggest complaints with boneyard is the radius size is too small and the DoT/breach dont stick. I looked at templars ritual for a good comparison, 12m radius, 2/5 negative effects cleansed, synergy for allies to heal and cleanse all negatives, 30s/20s durations, damage with 12% increase per tick/HoT. Even with retibution having the healing part removed, its a strong skill.

Yeah I figured thats where you were coming from, however, that skill kinda stands on its own as a class defining ability. There is nothing like it elsewhere in the game. The reason it exists at all is because the ticks are so low and it's primary function started as a hot/purge.

Boneyard on the other hand, is clearly within the same category as Sorc's Lightning Splash, DK's Ash Cloud, Templar's Shards, Warden's Winter's Revenge, and NB's Twisting Path. There is also Bow's Volley, 2H's Stampede, Destro's Wall of Elements, and Assaults Caltrops.

These are all very similar in size, cost, duration, and damage done once per second, most of them being at a 6m radius or slightly below/above that.

Also consider Ritual ticks every 2s and deals much less per second than the skill category Boneyard is from. As a point of reference, Boneyard should tick 11 times over the 10s, with the +30% that is 364/s and 2249 damage synergy you can use which also heals. Ritual ticks once every 2s or 218/s before the +12% modifier builds up, should also be 11 ticks over the 20s.

This isn't to say I'm happy with the state of this skill category. If you look at all of them, they're barely stronger than most spammables making them useless to waste the GCD on in most cases. It's the entire reason you will never see Sorc using Lightning Splash. In fact, the only ones worth slotting are Boneyard and Winter's Revenge with their 30% bonuses and Ash Cloud with the instant hit.

Everything else, sucks, weapon dots are only used because of their ability altering weapon and infused enchant procs from back bar.

brandsnipe · February 26

MashmalloMan wrote: »

brandsnipe wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Too loaded imo, but you can convert it to match standards a bit better. You kinda need to pick which parts are going above and beyond the standard because you have about 4 things going past it, and they all do it in a big way.

20s duration, 10s dot, 12m radius, and generating corpses.

Standard based on the evidence we find from multiple classes and universal skills:

6m radius, 10s duration, 4s duration effect when hit, possible synergy, and insert x additional effect or bonus here.

With that in mind, a new version could be:

8m radius, 15s duration, 4s single target dot to enemies hit, synergy, corpse increases damage dealt by 20%.

Morph 1: Self Synergy
Morph 2: Major Breach for 4s

Even this would probably be too much. Something like the 4s dot, +5s duration, and +2m radius are enough to be their own morph effects, but they would theoretically be on the base ability here.

Could do something more balanced like:

Morph 1: Self Synergy +2m radius
Morph 2: Major Breach + dot for 4s

This way, the morphs have better differences. Morph 1 focuses on the Self Synergy, adding increased radius to help make it a stronger and easier to use AOE burst skill for the user. Morph 2 adds a 4s dot/breach, the smaller size makes more sense to provide it better counterplay, but also more forgiving in that enemies who enter/exit still continue to take damage.

Yes it is a loaded skill. Thematically i like boneyard to produce corpses, but i understand how strong this could be. What about at half the duration and end of duration a corpse spawns. My biggest complaints with boneyard is the radius size is too small and the DoT/breach dont stick. I looked at templars ritual for a good comparison, 12m radius, 2/5 negative effects cleansed, synergy for allies to heal and cleanse all negatives, 30s/20s durations, damage with 12% increase per tick/HoT. Even with retibution having the healing part removed, its a strong skill.

Yeah I figured thats where you were coming from, however, that skill kinda stands on its own as a class defining ability. There is nothing like it elsewhere in the game. The reason it exists at all is because the ticks are so low and it's primary function started as a hot/purge.

Boneyard on the other hand, is clearly within the same category as Sorc's Lightning Splash, DK's Ash Cloud, Templar's Shards, Warden's Winter's Revenge, and NB's Twisting Path. There is also Bow's Volley, 2H's Stampede, Destro's Wall of Elements, and Assaults Caltrops.

These are all very similar in size, cost, duration, and damage done once per second, most of them being at a 6m radius or slightly below/above that.

Also consider Ritual ticks every 2s and deals much less per second than the skill category Boneyard is from. As a point of reference, Boneyard should tick 11 times over the 10s, with the +30% that is 364/s and 2249 damage synergy you can use which also heals. Ritual ticks once every 2s or 218/s before the +12% modifier builds up, should also be 11 ticks over the 20s.

This isn't to say I'm happy with the state of this skill category. If you look at all of them, they're barely stronger than most spammables making them useless to waste the GCD on in most cases. It's the entire reason you will never see Sorc using Lightning Splash. In fact, the only ones worth slotting are Boneyard and Winter's Revenge with their 30% bonuses and Ash Cloud with the instant hit.

Everything else, sucks, weapon dots are only used because of their ability altering weapon and infused enchant procs from back bar.

I don't like any of those small radius skills. I mostly PvP on my warden and even when i build more into AoE, i use wall of elements. I understand the balancing issueseswith my idess, but with how bad of a state necro is in, i'd rather see too much added than not enough. Every class has supporting abilities, necro just does what it can.

Lystrad · February 27

brandsnipe wrote: »

I don't like any of those small radius skills. I mostly PvP on my warden and even when i build more into AoE, i use wall of elements. I understand the balancing issueseswith my idess, but with how bad of a state necro is in, i'd rather see too much added than not enough. Every class has supporting abilities, necro just does what it can.

To be fair to ground AoEs, I feel like wall of elements is kind of a problem, because of the fact that you can force unstable walls detonation by recasting the ability. I love unstable wall and wouldn't want them to change it's function but it feels like in any situation where you have limited bar space for your build, unstable wall makes the existence of every other ground AoE redundant because it can pull double duty as a ground dot and an AoE spammable depending on the situation, but that might just be me. I know personally for me that any other ground ability would have to be either insanely powerful or incredibly versatile for me to consider over wall unless I had lots of free skill slots floating around and a reason to take both.

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A boneyard rework i'd always slot

A boneyard rework i'd always slot 27 votes