Please Don't Give Ayleids the Triquetra: Torc of the Last Ayleid King PTS Lore

Aliyavana · January 31

So the antiquity entries for the new Mythic currently on the PTS, Torc of the Last Ayleid King, has me disappointed. They are giving the Triquetra to the Ayleids under the entries for the Meteoric Iron Triquetra piece. This is disheartening since the Triquetra is a symbol created by the druids around 1E 330 and has become a symbol closely related to the Bretons, both on mainland and the Systres. Sure, an excuse can be made that the Bretons do not have a monopoly on the symbol and it can be explained away as having multiple origins, but the Ayleids already took High Rock away from the Direnni, displacing their presence with no Direnni Ruins in sight (the direnni had a pretty impressive hegemony in high rock but no ruins to show for it), now they are claiming another thing deeply rooted in High Rock? The entries even phrase it as a thing that seems to be as ancient as the royal house in Nenalata, and it wouldn't come from the Druids as they would be too isolated in the Systres to even interact with the Ayleids of Nenalata by the time the Alessian Order razed the city in the Fourth Century of the First Era.

The mythic item is called the Torc of the LAST Ayleid King

Laloriaran Dynar was taken to coldharbour in 1E 482-484
i highly doubt the druids interacted with the ayleids from 330-482 when they are located far away in the Systres

---
Entries for the Ayleid Triquetra:

Ugron gro-Thurmog
Good metal, this. The Ayleids were masters of meteoric iron and crafted many fine blades from it. But I do not think this was part of a weapon. What is the significance of these interlocking rings?
Reginus Buca
The three-ring loop is a triquetra. It symbolizes land, sea, and sky. This one appears to be an amulet or medallion of great age, although it's missing the central stone.
Verita Numida
I've seen this triquetra before, in the ruins of Nenalata. It was the emblem of the royal house. This medallion might have been looted from a king's tomb when the Alessian Order razed the city.

WhiteCoatSyndrome · January 31

😕 Disappointing. I’m not huge into Breton lore but I do wish they’d take more care with the lore as a general rule. For some of us that’s the primary reason for playing this game!

Aliyavana · February 1

WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

😕 Disappointing. I’m not huge into Breton lore but I do wish they’d take more care with the lore as a general rule. For some of us that’s the primary reason for playing this game!

Thats currently mine. I used to play primarily for PVP and some PVE, but the people I used to play with left. I play for story and lore only atm, and some housing.

Aliyavana · February 7

I recently found the Count Calantius of Skingrad using a Triquetra Tiara. I really hope they don't tie his reason to using it to the Ayleids and instead tie it to maybe some Breton heritage? I really hope they remove the Triquetra from the Torc description.

Aliyavana · February 7

Would be cool to tie Bretons to Skingrad if they do go that route. Bretons do have a significant presence in Cyrodiilic history. Emeric also has a Triquetra tiara

Enodoc · February 7

It would certainly be unfortunate if another iconic Breton symbol was rewritten to have Ayleid origins rather than being something Druidic. It would certainly be easier if there was no implied association at all by not even including a triquetra in the torc, but if this isn't changed, then as long as there isn't any suggestion that the triquetra was "originally Ayleid" and the Bretons gained in later through Ayleid influence, then hopefully it will be okay.

(Implied Ayleid influence would be equally bad, as that once again ignores the Direnni as a separate entity, who should have had significantly more influence on Breton culture due to ruling them for 200 years than a few refugees from Cyrodiil ever would.)

Thevampirenight · February 9

Enodoc wrote: »

It would certainly be unfortunate if another iconic Breton symbol was rewritten to have Ayleid origins rather than being something Druidic. It would certainly be easier if there was no implied association at all by not even including a triquetra in the torc, but if this isn't changed, then as long as there isn't any suggestion that the triquetra was "originally Ayleid" and the Bretons gained in later through Ayleid influence, then hopefully it will be okay.

(Implied Ayleid influence would be equally bad, as that once again ignores the Direnni as a separate entity, who should have had significantly more influence on Breton culture due to ruling them for 200 years than a few refugees from Cyrodiil ever would.)

I kind of don't think it is, really taken from the aylieds, i think its more likely given the lore and association the Nenalata Ayleids had with highrock that they took the symbol from the bretons or like shared some druidic beliefs with them. The thing about this item is it symbolizes three elemental forces, air, water and earth for the ayleids which was likely taken from Druidic beliefs. The thing is like, something like this a triquetra isn't really like some unique thing. It would still have a stronger assocation with the bretons but like in real life, it was a symbol in like europe before even christanity by the ooks of it but its also been a symbol in japan which isn't nearly as close to those areas. So like, many areas can take up similar symbols, I don't think its like egregious. Ain't the worst blooper Zenimax has done. If it is one at all. The thing about the Dirennei and Ayleids is that they were both elves, or like Direnni were directly high elves. So them like sharing stuff with the ayleids is not far fetched since the triquetra could have been a common symbol among elves at the time. The Direnni were very happy to let the ayleids in which means they were possibly allied forces and possibly shared culture too. It makes a lot of sense really.

Aliyavana · February 16

Thevampirenight wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

It would certainly be unfortunate if another iconic Breton symbol was rewritten to have Ayleid origins rather than being something Druidic. It would certainly be easier if there was no implied association at all by not even including a triquetra in the torc, but if this isn't changed, then as long as there isn't any suggestion that the triquetra was "originally Ayleid" and the Bretons gained in later through Ayleid influence, then hopefully it will be okay.

(Implied Ayleid influence would be equally bad, as that once again ignores the Direnni as a separate entity, who should have had significantly more influence on Breton culture due to ruling them for 200 years than a few refugees from Cyrodiil ever would.)

I kind of don't think it is, really taken from the aylieds, i think its more likely given the lore and association the Nenalata Ayleids had with highrock that they took the symbol from the bretons or like shared some druidic beliefs with them. The thing about this item is it symbolizes three elemental forces, air, water and earth for the ayleids which was likely taken from Druidic beliefs. The thing is like, something like this a triquetra isn't really like some unique thing. It would still have a stronger assocation with the bretons but like in real life, it was a symbol in like europe before even christanity by the ooks of it but its also been a symbol in japan which isn't nearly as close to those areas. So like, many areas can take up similar symbols, I don't think its like egregious. Ain't the worst blooper Zenimax has done. If it is one at all. The thing about the Dirennei and Ayleids is that they were both elves, or like Direnni were directly high elves. So them like sharing stuff with the ayleids is not far fetched since the triquetra could have been a common symbol among elves at the time. The Direnni were very happy to let the ayleids in which means they were possibly allied forces and possibly shared culture too. It makes a lot of sense really.

the ayleids taking it from breton influence doesnt work when it is called the torc of the last ayleid king. Laloriaran Dynar who is the last ayleid king was taken to coldharbour in 1E 482-484, and the Druids of Galen had already went to the Systres in 1E 330 and invented it there. The Druid were isolated in the Systres which is far from High Rock, and Its unlikely that the druids went back to High Rock and interacted with the mainland Bretons in time for the Ayleid Disapora into High Rock. We don't have a timeline for when the triquetra was introduced into High Rock, but it was likely done sometime after Duchess Martinne Guimard purchased the Systres circa 1E 2328, thousands of years after Dynar disappeared.

The closest the druids came to going back to High Rock early is after Druid King Kasorayn was assassinated, and the Allwither Cult was likely was going to take the Ivy Throne and take revenge of the Direnni, but that was prevented.

Again, the triquetra can be written in-universe as having multiple origins, but I am tired of ayleids treading on high rock adjacent content, when they already took high rock from the direnni in terms of depictions. at least let bretons have something unique

ThelerisTelvanni · February 17

Well I love the Aylieds yet I have to agree that it is a shame that the Direnni got demoted for that.

Since both the Aylieds and the Direnni have there cultural origins on the Summerset Isles, it is logical to asume they have some things in common. Like arcetecture, fashon, magical understanding. Since the Aylieds also (but not exclusivly) honored the Aedra, I see no reason why they do not have some diplomatic relationships between Aylieds and Direnni. It seems rather resonable for them to have a connection. Especially since the Direnni took in some Aylieds in after they lost there lands. How far they shared spiritual belives is hard to say but I asume they are simular at least since they share a common origin. Some of these belives were most likly passed down to the Bretons by the Direnni. Therefor shaping the Breton few of things and spiritual belives.

So Bretons and Aylied both having a triquetra is possible. But I totally understand why Breton fans dislike it.

Aliyavana · February 20

Enodoc wrote: »

It would certainly be unfortunate if another iconic Breton symbol was rewritten to have Ayleid origins rather than being something Druidic. It would certainly be easier if there was no implied association at all by not even including a triquetra in the torc, but if this isn't changed, then as long as there isn't any suggestion that the triquetra was "originally Ayleid" and the Bretons gained in later through Ayleid influence, then hopefully it will be okay.

(Implied Ayleid influence would be equally bad, as that once again ignores the Direnni as a separate entity, who should have had significantly more influence on Breton culture due to ruling them for 200 years than a few refugees from Cyrodiil ever would.)

definitely would be bad. bretons should be pulling from direnni or human/druidic influences, not gut-garden sadists that came to high rock years later

TheRimOfTheSky · February 20

I'm so tired of Ayleids ripping off everybody lmao, taking triquetra from Bretons, taking the ruins from Direnni, etc. What happened to the interesting parts of Ayleid culture, like star magic, flesh sculpture art, and worshiping Daedra for insane rewards and consequences? Their potential is being wasted

WhiteCoatSyndrome · February 20

Thevampirenight wrote: »

The thing about this item is it symbolizes three elemental forces, air, water and earth for the ayleids which was likely taken from Druidic beliefs.

Ayleids had four elements though: earth, water, air, and light. So a three-sided knot really doesn’t fit.

Aliyavana · February 21

WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

Thevampirenight wrote: »

The thing about this item is it symbolizes three elemental forces, air, water and earth for the ayleids which was likely taken from Druidic beliefs.

Ayleids had four elements though: earth, water, air, and light. So a three-sided knot really doesn’t fit.

yeah exactly, taking this symbol just isnt the right move

Aliyavana · February 26

last pts cycle and the iron triquetra remains. looks like they intend to keep the entry

tsaescishoeshiner · February 27

A symbol that now means land, sea, and sky, could have also meant earth, water, and air--and adapted with an extra ring for light, the fourth element of the Ayleid magic system.

Who used it first? The Nedes or Aldmer could have passed it on as a sacred, royal, or lineage symbol to the Bretons, Druids, Direnni, or Ayleids.

Long ago, it could have been a symbol of Y'ffre/Jephre that kept its auspicious or ancestral associations but changed in meaning over time as different groups fit the symbol to their worldview.

In the codex, the triquetra isn't even stated to have been invented by the Ayleids:

I've seen this triquetra before, in the ruins of Nenalata. It was the emblem of the royal house.

It's just stated to be found in Nenalata as a royal symbol. Nothing except the name actually associates it with Laloriaran, either. The three-pointed shape is probably partly because the item was meant to have three separate bonuses. I guess it also has a purifying fourth effect.

I don't see that as taking anything away from Bretons, but fitting with their mixed heritage. If anything, I see it as alluding to a much more ancient legacy to the symbol Bretons use today--perhaps even deep into the Merethic Era. What would a Breton ruler think to hear that their symbol was used by their ancestors thousands of years ago?

Or the First Era Bretons came up with it, sold art and goods with the symbol, and one Ayleid family adapted it to use as a crest.