A hard Tel Var loss cap

Ralamil · February 3

ArchMikem wrote: »

only real group running districts is on your side for once

You gain a false sense of security and after awhile you're carrying about 31,000 Tel Var.

all the players we run into have been easy enough to deal with

Then a hostile player rounds the corner, focuses you and bursts you into the ground. Goodbye 15k.

So you want to zerg, kill enemies, and get rewards, but you got greedy and lazy and are crying that someone was finally able to pick you out of your zerg and kill you?

lol, ok.

xiphactinus · February 3

It takes 30 seconds to bank telvar. On you if you lose it!

xylena_lazarow · February 5

KiltMaster wrote: »

It is a bummer what happened to ya, but it is a necessary lesson to learn! This is the only zone where there's a risk/reward aspect. I reckon they'd like to keep it that way.

What risk is a stealth ganker carrying zero stones taking?

Amottica · February 5

We already have a means to limit how much Tel Var we lose. It is called banking the Tel var.

Losing Tel var if we are defeated is an intentional design. Since we gain more Tel Var based on how much Tel Var we are carrying it makes sense we would lose more Tel Var when we are carrying more. When we get to a point where we want to protect some of that Tel var we can go and bank it.

The design makes sense.

ArchMikem · February 7

Ralamil wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

only real group running districts is on your side for once

You gain a false sense of security and after awhile you're carrying about 31,000 Tel Var.

all the players we run into have been easy enough to deal with

Then a hostile player rounds the corner, focuses you and bursts you into the ground. Goodbye 15k.

So you want to zerg, kill enemies, and get rewards, but you got greedy and lazy and are crying that someone was finally able to pick you out of your zerg and kill you?

lol, ok.

The fact you used the word crying earns you an insightful.

xylena_lazarow · February 8

Amottica wrote: »

The design makes sense.

The part that does not make sense:

You skillfully kill a stealth ganker. You get zero stones for doing that, because they are not carrying any.

Eventually, even a bad ganker gets lucky and lands a kill, gaining thousands, then queues into another campaign.

Sure it takes time and patience for finding targets, but ultimately it's no risk and all reward.

I don't mind being ganked, but not getting anything for killing the ganker? That's some BloodSpawn.

CameraBeardThePirate · February 8

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

The design makes sense.

The part that does not make sense:

You skillfully kill a stealth ganker. You get zero stones for doing that, because they are not carrying any.

Eventually, even a bad ganker gets lucky and lands a kill, gaining thousands, then queues into another campaign.

Sure it takes time and patience for finding targets, but ultimately it's no risk and all reward.

I don't mind being ganked, but not getting anything for killing the ganker? That's some BloodSpawn.

This. Gankers don't have to risk anything. That's kind of silly.

Also - remove the ability to join a queue for another campaign while in combat in IC. There's a reason you can't use Sigils of Imperial Retreat while in the middle of a fight. You shouldn't be able to bypass that mechanic with a hotkey that queues you for Cyrodiil.

Vaqual · February 9

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

The design makes sense.

The part that does not make sense:

You skillfully kill a stealth ganker. You get zero stones for doing that, because they are not carrying any.

Eventually, even a bad ganker gets lucky and lands a kill, gaining thousands, then queues into another campaign.

Sure it takes time and patience for finding targets, but ultimately it's no risk and all reward.

I don't mind being ganked, but not getting anything for killing the ganker? That's some BloodSpawn.

This. Gankers don't have to risk anything. That's kind of silly.

Also - remove the ability to join a queue for another campaign while in combat in IC. There's a reason you can't use Sigils of Imperial Retreat while in the middle of a fight. You shouldn't be able to bypass that mechanic with a hotkey that queues you for Cyrodiil.

Nobody has to risk anything if the Tel Var is in the bank. Everyone risks their Tel Var if the Tel Var is not in the bank. This equation doesn't contain Gankers.

CameraBeardThePirate · February 9

Vaqual wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

The design makes sense.

The part that does not make sense:

You skillfully kill a stealth ganker. You get zero stones for doing that, because they are not carrying any.

Eventually, even a bad ganker gets lucky and lands a kill, gaining thousands, then queues into another campaign.

Sure it takes time and patience for finding targets, but ultimately it's no risk and all reward.

I don't mind being ganked, but not getting anything for killing the ganker? That's some BloodSpawn.

This. Gankers don't have to risk anything. That's kind of silly.

Also - remove the ability to join a queue for another campaign while in combat in IC. There's a reason you can't use Sigils of Imperial Retreat while in the middle of a fight. You shouldn't be able to bypass that mechanic with a hotkey that queues you for Cyrodiil.

Nobody has to risk anything if the Tel Var is in the bank. Everyone risks their Tel Var if the Tel Var is not in the bank. This equation doesn't contain Gankers.

The entire point of TelVar is to keep it on you.

Saying "nobody has to risk anything if it's in the bank" might as well be saying "just don't go to IC".

You get more TelVar by having more on you - that's why people carry TelVar in the first place.

Kartalin · February 9

Pour one out for that guy that lost 15.6 million tel var in one go.

I think there has to be some kind of risk/reward structure to earning a type of currency in a pvp environment. So I'm okay with where it's at right now. But at the same time I completely understand the ones that are suggesting a no risk/no reward structure, where a player can only gain from a player as much as they risk losing by carrying some with them. If that were feasible I think that would end up being a good compromise.

soelslaev · February 9

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

You shouldn't be able to run around on a glass cannon with 0 risk of losing TelVar and all the opportunity to gain it.

But then there are no dirty villains for you & your buddies to go hunt down.

soelslaev · February 9

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

I got repeatedly ganked by the same player in the sewers the other night. What was funny was that it occurred in completely different areas of the sewers…

See, I wish there was such a thing as an anti-taunt. Then what I would do in this situation is pull a flag boss and then anti-taunt him so that he goes after the Nightblade that is hounding me. Then see how he likes dealing with a flag boss while I hammer on him & he’s forced out of stealth.

Of course, I’d have to swap to a build that survives the initial Nightblade damage burst. But still…

ForumSavant · February 20

Haven't read every reply, so don't know if it has already been mentioned, but it should be limited, at the very least, to however much the other person is carrying. You should not be able to spam respawn on a ganker, with 0 telvar, posing no risk to yourself, to be able to essential take millions of gold worth of telvar off of someone else with a build that can kill someone in under 1 second real life time.

xylena_lazarow · February 20

ForumSavant wrote: »

Haven't read every reply, so don't know if it has already been mentioned, but it should be limited, at the very least, to however much the other person is carrying. You should not be able to spam respawn on a ganker, with 0 telvar, posing no risk to yourself, to be able to essential take millions of gold worth of telvar off of someone else with a build that can kill someone in under 1 second real life time.

Example of how it should work:

I'm carrying 10k Telvars, which means I lose 5k if I die.

Therefore, my maximum gain off any single player kill should be 5k, the same as my wager.

I put my stones in the bank. Now I have 0 Telvars.

Now my player kills gain me 0 Telvars, because my wager is 0 Telvars.

sharquez · February 20

I would bet half a million telvar that this speculation comes to nothing but have fun.

SmellyUnlimited · February 22

Kartalin wrote: »

Pour one out for that guy that lost 15.6 million tel var in one go.

I think there has to be some kind of risk/reward structure to earning a type of currency in a pvp environment. So I'm okay with where it's at right now. But at the same time I completely understand the ones that are suggesting a no risk/no reward structure, where a player can only gain from a player as much as they risk losing by carrying some with them. If that were feasible I think that would end up being a good compromise.

I watched the video but the guy escapes at the end with the full 15 million tel var. Aggravating as all hell seeing him melt players around him, knowing that I’d likely be in that bunch too. Absurd that a ganker build can somehow take out 5+ enemies attacking you, so you essentially have a glass cannon but a survivable one? This is why PvP drives me crazy.

CameraBeardThePirate · February 22

SmellyUnlimited wrote: »

Kartalin wrote: »

Pour one out for that guy that lost 15.6 million tel var in one go.

I think there has to be some kind of risk/reward structure to earning a type of currency in a pvp environment. So I'm okay with where it's at right now. But at the same time I completely understand the ones that are suggesting a no risk/no reward structure, where a player can only gain from a player as much as they risk losing by carrying some with them. If that were feasible I think that would end up being a good compromise.

I watched the video but the guy escapes at the end with the full 15 million tel var. Aggravating as all hell seeing him melt players around him, knowing that I’d likely be in that bunch too. Absurd that a ganker build can somehow take out 5+ enemies attacking you, so you essentially have a glass cannon but a survivable one? This is why PvP drives me crazy.

He has 31k health - he's not a ganker, nor a glass cannon. A "glass cannon" would be around 20k health, and would've likely fallen over at someone sneezing at them. The build in the video is simply a good PvP build on a good PvP class.

ArchMikem · February 22

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

SmellyUnlimited wrote: »

Kartalin wrote: »

Pour one out for that guy that lost 15.6 million tel var in one go.

I think there has to be some kind of risk/reward structure to earning a type of currency in a pvp environment. So I'm okay with where it's at right now. But at the same time I completely understand the ones that are suggesting a no risk/no reward structure, where a player can only gain from a player as much as they risk losing by carrying some with them. If that were feasible I think that would end up being a good compromise.

I watched the video but the guy escapes at the end with the full 15 million tel var. Aggravating as all hell seeing him melt players around him, knowing that I’d likely be in that bunch too. Absurd that a ganker build can somehow take out 5+ enemies attacking you, so you essentially have a glass cannon but a survivable one? This is why PvP drives me crazy.

He has 31k health - he's not a ganker, nor a glass cannon. A "glass cannon" would be around 20k health, and would've likely fallen over at someone sneezing at them. The build in the video is simply a good PvP build on a good PvP class.

The point remains, if someone builds into health and survivability like that they shouldn't be able to be outputting that much damage as well. That's not balanced.

Necrotech_Master · February 22

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

ForumSavant wrote: »

Haven't read every reply, so don't know if it has already been mentioned, but it should be limited, at the very least, to however much the other person is carrying. You should not be able to spam respawn on a ganker, with 0 telvar, posing no risk to yourself, to be able to essential take millions of gold worth of telvar off of someone else with a build that can kill someone in under 1 second real life time.

Example of how it should work:

I'm carrying 10k Telvars, which means I lose 5k if I die.

Therefore, my maximum gain off any single player kill should be 5k, the same as my wager.

I put my stones in the bank. Now I have 0 Telvars.

Now my player kills gain me 0 Telvars, because my wager is 0 Telvars.

i could agree with this change, adds more to the risk v reward structure without impacting much of the current functionality

Reginald_leBlem · February 22

Nah losing your telvar is part of the game. If you aren't confident in your ability to hang on to it, bank it

CameraBeardThePirate · February 23

ArchMikem wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

SmellyUnlimited wrote: »

Kartalin wrote: »

Pour one out for that guy that lost 15.6 million tel var in one go.

I think there has to be some kind of risk/reward structure to earning a type of currency in a pvp environment. So I'm okay with where it's at right now. But at the same time I completely understand the ones that are suggesting a no risk/no reward structure, where a player can only gain from a player as much as they risk losing by carrying some with them. If that were feasible I think that would end up being a good compromise.

I watched the video but the guy escapes at the end with the full 15 million tel var. Aggravating as all hell seeing him melt players around him, knowing that I’d likely be in that bunch too. Absurd that a ganker build can somehow take out 5+ enemies attacking you, so you essentially have a glass cannon but a survivable one? This is why PvP drives me crazy.

He has 31k health - he's not a ganker, nor a glass cannon. A "glass cannon" would be around 20k health, and would've likely fallen over at someone sneezing at them. The build in the video is simply a good PvP build on a good PvP class.

The point remains, if someone builds into health and survivability like that they shouldn't be able to be outputting that much damage as well. That's not balanced.

31k health is not "building into health" though. Thats actually on the lower side of average for PvP builds these days - thank ZOS for giving everyone free stats in the CP 2.0 changes because now everything is inflated.

30k is actually the bare minimum in terms of health this patch. Any lower than that and you risk getting 1 shot. The player in the video is far from a glass cannon or ganker, but still on the lower side of health. They're simply well built and comfortable surviving on the class (and getting a lot of help from Nightblade's kit).