A hard Tel Var loss cap

ArchMikem

So you find yourself in a rare scenario. Imp City is empty and the only real group running districts is on your side for once. You tag along, and you're busting down patrolling horrors like nobody's business. You gain a false sense of security and after awhile you're carrying about 31,000 Tel Var. You're thinking, maybe I should go and bank this, it's a lot, buuut all the players we run into have been easy enough to deal with, maybe call it at 50? Eventually you find yourself standing on a flag with a couple others.

Then a hostile player rounds the corner, focuses you and bursts you into the ground. Goodbye 15k.

If Tel Var loss upon death remained 50% but capped at like, 5,000 that'd be greeeaaaat.

Vaqual

You are okay with killing other players with a group of allies and them losing their meagre pickings, but getting sniped out of the group is too much?
Do you really need comments for this?

ArchMikem

Vaqual wrote: »

You are okay with killing other in players with a group of allies and them losing their meagre pickings, but getting sniped out of the group is too much?
Do you really need comments for this?

I was there mainly for patrolling bosses, I fought back if attacked, and ignored those I found doing their own thing.

OBJnoob

It really isn't about honor or playing nice or zerging or any of that though. You got killed in a PvP zone -shrug-

You clearly already know that you were carrying too much Tel Var -shrug-

Your loss is another man's gain. And I'm not saying that to be a smart-mouth or be callous. I'm just pointing out that there is one upset person but also one happy person. It isn't as though this is a lose/lose situation where something may be wrong with the environment or the rules. There is a winner, there is a loser, there is a reward, and there are ways to mitigate your losses.

It's not really a large-scale problem that needs fixing. It's just a crappy thing that happened to you once. And it also happens to be the main attracting feature of the zone.

WhiteCoatSyndrome

I’d honestly be fine with them axing the Tel Var loss all together.

SeaGtGruff

I don't think I've ever lost that much Tel Var in one go, but I do know how aggravating it can be to lose any at all.

Still, Imperial City is what it is, and I vote for keeping it as-is. If a hard cap were introduced, there would undoubtedly be a lot of requests to lower the cap, and then lower it still more, and then still more, etc. It's probably for the best to keep the lid on that Pandora's box nailed shut.

Hotdog_23

I kind of always thought a static loss of 50% seemed off. I would prefer it be a fixed amount lost each time, all the way to zero. This would encourage people to stay in the zone more, rather than hopping in and out to bank stones.

Remember running into a guy who didn't know you could bank the stones at all? Played with others who went to bank stones and decided to stop playing once in the safe zone rather than run back to the group.

If the loss was capped at, say, 1,000 per death, then people would have incentives to get above a 1000 and keep rolling for more rather than keep running back to the bank stones.

Stay safe

XSTRONG

ArchMikem wrote: »

So you find yourself in a rare scenario. Imp City is empty and the only real group running districts is on your side for once. You tag along, and you're busting down patrolling horrors like nobody's business. You gain a false sense of security and after awhile you're carrying about 31,000 Tel Var. You're thinking, maybe I should go and bank this, it's a lot, buuut all the players we run into have been easy enough to deal with, maybe call it at 50? Eventually you find yourself standing on a flag with a couple others.

Then a hostile player rounds the corner, focuses you and bursts you into the ground. Goodbye 15k.

If Tel Var loss upon death remained 50% but capped at like, 5,000 that'd be greeeaaaat.

It takes only a min to bank Tel war, travel to Cyrodiil campain then to Imperial city campain, or maybe they should get rid of the travel too? And you have to run back to banker.

Turtle_Bot

Problem with introducing a cap like this is that you mitigate most of the risk involved with farming telvar.

Why bother banking any telvar at all at that point when you can run around with 200k telvar and max multiplier all the time and know that even if you get killed and lost that max 5k cap, all it takes is 1 boss kill and you've made that loss back (and likely even more) thanks to the multipliers.

P.S. I say this as someone who dislikes farming telvar for too long and banks consistently (every 7-10k) due to this loss mechanic, but understands that the risk reward involved in it is what keeps players on their toes and makes it rewarding for those who do find themselves on the "win" side of a PvP kill in IC.

Braffin

I don't think this change is necessary or even desireable, as the whole high risk/high reward playstyle would be replaced by a rather dull farming simulator.

If zos were going this route (which is thankfully doubtful), I'd at least expect them to eliminate the multiplier, as there wouldn't be a reason anymore for it.

Jsmalls

If it makes you feel any better I took 100k Tel Var from someone once.

sharquez

Not happening cheif, Live and learn. You can play the game or leave the arena. It's all fleeting coin, best not get too attached.

jecks33

That's why IC is a desert zone by... hem... years

CameraBeardThePirate

A better way to implement a "loss cap" would be by making it so that you can only take as much Tel Var as you already have.

You shouldn't be able to run around on a glass cannon with 0 risk of losing TelVar and all the opportunity to gain it.

If you want to be able to steal 10k telvar from someone, you should be willing to carry that much TelVar on your person.

sharquez

Why does there have to be a loss cap? You bring it you risk it. you don't even lose 80% anymore like the good old days.
I get that its not for everyone but it's silly to come in and demand changes because you don't like how the place is run.
It's the last bastion of the hardcore PVP crowd where they get to use their full power for risk reward and riches. To kill powerful enemies and each other and farm valuable rewards. It's certainly stale to some but you can bet if a new instance of this type of content came out people would flock to it and back to the game.

gariondavey

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

A better way to implement a "loss cap" would be by making it so that you can only take as much Tel Var as you already have.

You shouldn't be able to run around on a glass cannon with 0 risk of losing TelVar and all the opportunity to gain it.

If you want to be able to steal 10k telvar from someone, you should be willing to carry that much TelVar on your person.

Came here to say the same thing

ArchMikem

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

A better way to implement a "loss cap" would be by making it so that you can only take as much Tel Var as you already have.

You shouldn't be able to run around on a glass cannon with 0 risk of losing TelVar and all the opportunity to gain it.

If you want to be able to steal 10k telvar from someone, you should be willing to carry that much TelVar on your person.

That's an interesting idea, definitely, but that would still leave people having to continuously port out to bank whenever they get the amount they're willing to risk, which frankly for most might just be maybe 2k to 5k at a time. I've done some District Boss runs where I end up with over 10k to 30k on me cause I didn't want to break the momentum.

Really, I'm fine with there being a loss penalty, it's a PvP Zone I get it, but when the penalty is 50%? The only practical way of earning Tel Var is by defeating patrolling bosses, and the Districts are always filled with tryhards who's main reason in IC is to fight other players.

CameraBeardThePirate

ArchMikem wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

A better way to implement a "loss cap" would be by making it so that you can only take as much Tel Var as you already have.

You shouldn't be able to run around on a glass cannon with 0 risk of losing TelVar and all the opportunity to gain it.

If you want to be able to steal 10k telvar from someone, you should be willing to carry that much TelVar on your person.

That's an interesting idea, definitely, but that would still leave people having to continuously port out to bank whenever they get the amount they're willing to risk, which frankly for most might just be maybe 2k to 5k at a time. I've done some District Boss runs where I end up with over 10k to 30k on me cause I didn't want to break the momentum.

Really, I'm fine with there being a loss penalty, it's a PvP Zone I get it, but when the penalty is 50%? The only practical way of earning Tel Var is by defeating patrolling bosses, and the Districts are always filled with tryhards who's main reason in IC is to fight other players.

The loss used to be 80%. 50% really isn't that much of a loss if you're banking before 10k anyways.

Another thing farmers tend not to realize - don't bank down to 0 Tel Var. Keep enough Tel Var for a bonus - it's well worth the risk of losing half because the speed at which you'll gain Tel Var is so much higher.

Banking down to 1k and occasionally losing 500 Tel Var immediately is well worth it when killing a single pack of mobs with 1k on you will net you about 500 Tel Var already. Even if you don't want to risk the 500 by keeping 1k on you, keep enough for whatever the 2x bonus is.

Banking to 0 means you'll spend loads of time just to break through the first couple modifiers. The time you spend just to get your modifiers going is time that a ganker might stumble across you.

The entire point of Tel Var is risk vs reward. Further reducing the penalty is just going to reduce the value of Tel Var.

gariondavey

100 is the 2x bonus

fred4

ArchMikem wrote: »

Really, I'm fine with there being a loss penalty, it's a PvP Zone I get it, but when the penalty is 50%?

This is the nerfed value. It was 80% on release of IC.

and the Districts are always filled with tryhards who's main reason in IC is to fight other players.

Yep. That's what IC is. The wilds of Africa. You're a zebra. The tryhards are the lions. Working as intended.

I'm really not fine with your idea. If you want to bring your Tel Var home, build for that. As you say yourself, you got a false sense of security. Only you can judge how many Tel Var you can safely carry and what your risk / reward appetite is. Don't rely on others.

Make a build optimised specifically for IC. Example: My magblade uses Soulcleaver, Swallow Soul and Sap Essence. This is not optimal for PvP. With that set it comes close, but really it's optimised for healing while fighting bosses and, thus, keeping your health topped off so you can't easily be ganked. In addition, while I play fundamentally squishy, low health builds, I wear the Esoteric Greaves. You can't really be ganked by a single person while wearing that mythic, or at least it is very hard. The mythic won't suit every class, but it's an example of how to build for gank resistance. You might just build fundamentally tanky instead.

Here's me farming and getting unsuccessfully ganked:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBdLIeihspY

Solariken

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

A better way to implement a "loss cap" would be by making it so that you can only take as much Tel Var as you already have.

You shouldn't be able to run around on a glass cannon with 0 risk of losing TelVar and all the opportunity to gain it.

If you want to be able to steal 10k telvar from someone, you should be willing to carry that much TelVar on your person.

I've always thought this too. Specifically, I think it should be a 100% steal but only up to the amount victor was already carrying.

MidniteOwl1913

Last night I was doing the endeavor and had just started when on of the roaming bosses showed up, 2.5 mil health. Hmm, I thought, why not at least try? So it did take me awhile and I was near the end when someone from another alliance showed up. I saw them but there wasn't a whole lot I could do about it. Anyway they stood there watching me take down the boss and just as I finished one-shotted me. I get it it's PVP, but that seemed a little rude. He could have at least helped. I should have let the boss kill me I wouldn't have gotten anything but neither would he.

SeaGtGruff

I got repeatedly ganked by the same player in the sewers the other night. What was funny was that it occurred in completely different areas of the sewers, all within a short period of time. (I guess they were using the district sewer entrances to enter the sewers at various spots.) Fortunately for me, I'd already banked my "nice little haul" of TV just a few minutes before, so all I had on me each time I was ganked was chump change. I started a conversation with the other player and after we chatted a bit they recommended that I create a Nightblade character. The joke was, I was on my Nightblade main at the time!

RetPing

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

I started a conversation with the other player and after we chatted a bit they recommended that I create a Nightblade character. The joke was, I was on my Nightblade main at the time!

NBs are the reason that made IC and empty desert.
I do PvP all the time and have zero problem with being killed but cant stand all those brave fighters that just wait for you to be engaged with some NPC to attack. Very skilled gameplay.

And for the original message, I concur with advice of capping lost at how many tel var the guy that killed you has.
Make IC a high risk/ high reward for everyone.

CameraBeardThePirate

Solariken wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

A better way to implement a "loss cap" would be by making it so that you can only take as much Tel Var as you already have.

You shouldn't be able to run around on a glass cannon with 0 risk of losing TelVar and all the opportunity to gain it.

If you want to be able to steal 10k telvar from someone, you should be willing to carry that much TelVar on your person.

I've always thought this too. Specifically, I think it should be a 100% steal but only up to the amount victor was already carrying.

Agreed. 100% steal, only up to however many you're carrying. The turbo-DM crowd can run around carrying 10k+ so that they're always guaranteed to steal, while also providing an incentive for other players to stick around and try to kill them.

GooGa592

The amount of tel var you lose is already capped at half of what your carrying.

fred4

MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »

Last night I was doing the endeavor and had just started when on of the roaming bosses showed up, 2.5 mil health. Hmm, I thought, why not at least try? So it did take me awhile and I was near the end when someone from another alliance showed up. I saw them but there wasn't a whole lot I could do about it.

• You forget the boss immediately and go into PvP mode.
• Alternatively you bind a key or find an addon that can quickly queue you for Cyrodiil, so you disappear and save your Tel Var.
• As a nightblade you may choose to cloak / Shadow Image.
• As a sorcerer you may streak away. If enemies persist, you got to know IC. There are quite a few places where you can streak from the upper floor of a derilict building onto a protected door platform, or from a bridge to a protected ledge. You gain the blue aura and can't be damaged. Streak far enough away and you can also simply use an invisibility potion.

Anyway they stood there watching me take down the boss and just as I finished one-shotted me.

That's legit. They want the Tel Var you just made from the boss, especially if your alliance owns most of the districts, which means you make much more Tel Var than they could. If they shot you just before you killed the boss, however, they made a mistake or didn't care about Tel Var.

As soon as a boss dies, I dodge roll. Whether I see an opposing player, or not, I expect that a nightblade has been watching me all along. I fully expect to be ganked and to, hopefully, dodge their attack. Being a nightblade myself, the next thing is, I cloak. On other classes your options differ. On a DK, I might stand and block for 2 seconds. I would also heavy attack the boss and restore my resources, before the boss dies, and make sure I'm fully buffed (armor buff, etc,).

I get it it's PVP, but that seemed a little rude. He could have at least helped.

If he "helped" you, and it's just two of you, that would mean your Tel Var haul is cut in half. That is why my own default reaction is to immediately attack opposing players that try to "help". Not always, but I may well do.

I should have let the boss kill me I wouldn't have gotten anything but neither would he.

They could have finished the boss and gotten all the Tel Var from it.

wazzz56

Nah, I actually would prefer if it went back to the og way 80% loss to a player and 20% loss to an npc

JanTanhide

A cap would be nice but it won't happen. That's the drive of a lot of PVPers to go out hunting others. I know how ya feel losing so much. I don't know if you know how easy it is to get out of there when you need to. Instead of heading back to home base through the sewers you can easily just port to Cyrodil or if close to Imp City Prison dungeon or WGT dungeon just run in. As soon as you are in the dungeon just exit and you are back in non PVP land.

I lost about 8K which isn't much compared to others but after that I simply use one of the exit paths above when I get to 10K now. I'm no PVPer so getting Telvar takes a lot of NPCs and bosses.

KiltMaster

It is a bummer what happened to ya, but it is a necessary lesson to learn! This is the only zone where there's a risk/reward aspect. I reckon they'd like to keep it that way.

Necrotech_Master

i usually run in the sewers, less risk there lol

surface yeah you get more reward (tel var), but also significantly more risk of being killed

solo running in the sewers to center and back i can usually make 15-20k tel var and dozens of key frags i can sell