Will the Grimoire system repair the broken class system?

AnduinTryggva · February 2024

I play ESO now for at least six years. I have characters for each available class. While I am certainly no player for end content but I have a bit of ambition to do well and to do some content that is challenging like vet solo arenas etc.
I follow the discussions here on this forum and in guild chat and as it seems not all classes perform equally well in challenging content. As far as I follow internet guides on vet content some classes have outright advantages in certain areas.
For instance sorcerers and nightblades have a skill that allows escaping some of the challenging mechanics during the endboss encounter in vet Vateshran not available to other classes. I think this is one thing that makes the class system as it is now to be broken.
Will the new Grimoire system repair these things? I think each class should be able to perform differently yes but with same ease during such encounters. It does not look this way right now.

Adremal · February 2024

I doubt it. It's not gonna be Spellcrafting, that much was clearly stated. That being said a little more variety can't hurt, just don't expect anything colossal. Personally I'm much more interested in Skill Styling.

Necrotech_Master · February 2024

Adremal wrote: »

I doubt it. It's not gonna be Spellcrafting, that much was clearly stated. That being said a little more variety can't hurt, just don't expect anything colossal. Personally I'm much more interested in Skill Styling.

this, im more interested in the styling and the possibly variety/flavor of scribing

however as far as im aware it wasnt confirmed that scribing will include class skill lines, only the more generic skill lines (weapon, guild, soul magic)

so if anything it wont do anything for "class identity" at least initially

Ugrak · February 2024

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

For instance sorcerers and nightblades have a skill that allows escaping some of the challenging mechanics during the endboss encounter in vet Vateshran not available to other classes.

If you're thinking about the DPS check with the encroaching circle of enemies connected with a beam, then all classes have access to the vampire teleport.

AnduinTryggva · February 2024

Ugrak wrote: »

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

For instance sorcerers and nightblades have a skill that allows escaping some of the challenging mechanics during the endboss encounter in vet Vateshran not available to other classes.

If you're thinking about the DPS check with the encroaching circle of enemies connected with a beam, then all classes have access to the vampire teleport.

Arg, so all other classes have to accept that fire debuff? And this with the pyro mechanic in it... outch

Erickson9610 · February 2024

Ugrak wrote: »

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

For instance sorcerers and nightblades have a skill that allows escaping some of the challenging mechanics during the endboss encounter in vet Vateshran not available to other classes.

If you're thinking about the DPS check with the encroaching circle of enemies connected with a beam, then all classes have access to the vampire teleport.

Werewolf and non-cursed players don't have it. It's not something that everyone can simply slot on their bar.

tsaescishoeshiner · February 2024

I'd expect it to shore up certain class shortcomings, like lacking immobilizes or AoE DoTs or heals or damage types. So I think it will help classes more comfortably meet the minimums for their PvE roles, whether it's tanking/DPS/healing/solo play.

As far as top-end balance, I don't think it will curb which classes have the highest DPS parses or are most dominant in PvP.

For PvP, it could either exaggerate which classes dominate, or give everyone access to buffs/utilities that were formerly unique to only 1-2 classes.

I think it'll offer some build diversity, because maybe you wouldn't use bow for so-and-so ability-altering set, but now you would for whichever unique Grimoire effect you're after, so now you have room for a monster set, etc etc.

Just comes down to what the skills and effects will be.

LamiaCritter · February 2024

Sorcerers and nightblades have escape abilities so that automatically makes it... broken?
I'm sorry, I don't follow?
Classes having unique capabilities is something we call "broken" now?

So are classes not allowed to have unique aspects to them now, or...?

Belegnole · February 2024

I suspect that the grimoire system will just be another broken system on top of the broken system we already have.

AnduinTryggva · February 2024

LamiaCritter wrote: »

Sorcerers and nightblades have escape abilities so that automatically makes it... broken?
I'm sorry, I don't follow?
Classes having unique capabilities is something we call "broken" now?

So are classes not allowed to have unique aspects to them now, or...?

I assume you have not read my post to the end.

It is not about making all classes identical (I've written that) but to make all classes capable to have similar ease to perform a task. How this ease comes may be different for each class. But why on Earth should a nightblade build be easier to do Vateshran vet?
It is simply unfair for players who used all their slots on other classes without this advantage and who leveled them up to 50 before Vateshran was released. Or for those players who have invested a lot of time to learn their class as a dps. This is literally denying some equipment to these players or at least lifting the hurdle higher than for others. Tell me if that this is fair for you.

And it is not only just about a cosmetic item such as title or a body paint. It is also because of some equipment.

I for instance have started out to tank content and would like to have the void shield from Vateshran. This is an item that was recommended to me as a tank by many guild mates. To get this item will not only benefit me but also the players for which I tank dungeons etc.

Ugrak · February 2024

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Werewolf and non-cursed players don't have it. It's not something that everyone can simply slot on their bar.

Whether you want to use it or not is up to you of course, but the option is available.

The free armory station with it's two slots is great for swapping between vampire and werewolf as needed without having to chase down a bite.

Plan A should be to do the DPS check mechanic though.

AnduinTryggva · February 2024

Ugrak wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Werewolf and non-cursed players don't have it. It's not something that everyone can simply slot on their bar.

Whether you want to use it or not is up to you of course, but the option is available.

The free armory station with it's two slots is great for swapping between vampire and werewolf as needed without having to chase down a bite.

Plan A should be to do the DPS check mechanic though.

It is still not addressing the issue that a decisive mechanic is easier to play for some classes than others. It is not like vampirism does not come at significant disadvantages, specifically fire resistance debuff which is btw quite important during this endboss encounter (remember fire mage and pyro mini boss?) that these advantaged classes do not have to suffer?

It is simply bad game design that has different difficulty thresholds depending on class choice without class change tokens - specifically when this game content is the only way to obtain some equipment that you need for other activities. I don't see a way how this can be defended and why some want to turn away the discussion from this issue and from the request to level the ground here out of pure fairness.

Ugrak · February 2024

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

This is literally denying some equipment to these players or at least lifting the hurdle higher than for others. Tell me if that this is fair for you.

And it is not only just about a cosmetic item such as title or a body paint. It is also because of some equipment.

I for instance have started out to tank content and would like to have the void shield from Vateshran. This is an item that was recommended to me as a tank by many guild mates. To get this item will not only benefit me but also the players for which I tank dungeons etc.

The perfected versions are nice but the normal one is fine. Just do it on normal.

If you have a dragonknight by the way, I think magma shell can let you safely eat the explosion at the end of the beam mechanic.

The psijic ultimate is another a way across the beam, though a bit tricky to get the timing right and you have to get as close as you can to the beam enemies.

Both of the latter probably requires an ultimate generating build if you plan to rely on the metod repeatedly.

The vampire mist form teleport is the easiest though. At stage 1, the 5% extra fire damage is manageable.

I suspect if the developers really did put their focus on the issue of people skipping the DPS check mechanic using teleports, it would not be to enable it further, but rather prevent it altogether. For example through making the area outside the beam lethal unless the beam gets broken. Though I think there's something to be said for having multiple avenues of approach available such as this.

katanagirl1 · February 2024

I did Vateshran on my stamblade a long time ago. I did not use whatever skill lets you bypass the ring because I did not want to level up a single skill that I was never going to use again. It took me weeks to get through the last boss - on normal - and I haven’t done it since. It took Ring of the Pale order to help me just barely finish it.

Maybe you are talking about magblades, but in general nightblade is the bottom of the barrel for PvE dps so I would not call it an advantage either way.

As for sorcerer’s streak, that skill is so hard to aim in just the right direction that I would not use it. Why use either of the shortcuts you mentioned and lose a slot on your skill bar and hamper your dps? Doesn’t make sense to me. Sorc is also bottom of the barrel dps unless you use Oakensorc.

EDIT: autocorrect error