Better necro summons concept...

Sparxlost · February 8

I love the new blastbones skill they made, but i dont believe it actually solves the problem that they wanted to solve.

If blastbones and skeletal arc were perm summons with small health pools, then necro would already be in a much better spot

one morph buffs damage while active and doesnt explode on death but attacks enemies (maybe automatically resummons itself after a couple seconds of being down)

and the other deals disease damage in an area around it and explodes on death in addition to attacking enemies (doesnt auto resummon itself)

skele arc and morphs could stay the same but benefit from the consistency of not having to recast...

the idea is that the health pools should be relatively small so that a mage can heal their summons but not make them indestructable..

Necrotech_Master · February 8

i think the only reason that the summons expire right now is to play off the necromancer corpse mechanics, if the pets did not expire then corpse consuming abilities would be useless in long duration fights without adds

the other problem is that all of the summon skills for necro are considered criminal acts, so you would have to manually despawn the pets if you wanted to go anywhere (necromancer skills counting as criminal acts is also not something i like either lol)

i would really like to see the necromancer almost reworked to be well, just better and more of a necromancer than what feels like a half baked, non-synergistic class who is penalized for using half of their skills in from of npcs

Sparxlost · February 8

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

i think the only reason that the summons expire right now is to play off the necromancer corpse mechanics, if the pets did not expire then corpse consuming abilities would be useless in long duration fights without adds

the other problem is that all of the summon skills for necro are considered criminal acts, so you would have to manually despawn the pets if you wanted to go anywhere (necromancer skills counting as criminal acts is also not something i like either lol)

i would really like to see the necromancer almost reworked to be well, just better and more of a necromancer than what feels like a half baked, non-synergistic class who is penalized for using half of their skills in from of npcs

i am a fan of immersion, but i wont argue with your logic... the summons would be toggle action of course.. as far as empowering the abilities goes.. the new blastbones concept to buff damage it prolly a good enough alternative unless you actually use that one healing abitlity or summon ultimate

Necrotech_Master · February 8

if they would be toggles, then they would probably end up being more like sorc pets and require to be double barred still, though if the buffs and such were substantial i could see that being OK

my problem though is that the necromancer doesnt feel like a necromancer, like yeah your raising dead, or utilizing the dead, but still not my idea of a necromancer

the NPC necromancers are more necromancers than we are

OsUfi · February 8

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

my problem though is that the necromancer doesnt feel like a necromancer, like yeah your raising dead, or utilizing the dead, but still not my idea of a necromancer

It feels like an Elder Scrolls Necro to me.

Experimenting with the dead, black soul gems, and copse use, rather than having an army of the dead.

CameraBeardThePirate · February 9

OsUfi wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

my problem though is that the necromancer doesnt feel like a necromancer, like yeah your raising dead, or utilizing the dead, but still not my idea of a necromancer

It feels like an Elder Scrolls Necro to me.

Experimenting with the dead, black soul gems, and copse use, rather than having an army of the dead.

This. TES necros have never been about permanent summons - that's reserved for Mannimarco (Staff of Worms) and a single master level spell (Undead Thrall).

Necrotech_Master · February 9

for me when i think necromancer, i think army of undead lol, with the added life draining

in here we get a couple awful summons, and basically 0 life drain type skills (the vampire drain is more of a drain life skill than anything necro has)

when i did play elder scrolls 5 skyrim, i had a mod which gave me a true summon undead spell which summoned like 8 undead entities (ranging from simple skeletons to a couple wights)

felt more like a necromancer in there than the necromancer class does in here lol

OsUfi · February 10

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

for me when i think necromancer, i think army of undead lol, with the added life draining

Not wanting to quote your whole post, that's what Necros in Diablo and GW1 are like. Necromancers in Elder Scrolls have never been about an army of undead. You even say yourself that you mod Skyrim to be like that. So then even that's not what an Elder Scrolls necromancer is.

The only additional summons I would have taken as Elder Scrolls raised dead would have been something like a short lived bone Goliath, but I guess we have the morph and Colossus for that. And a thrall. But what's a thrall going to add to the table that Skeletal arcanists and archer don't already provide? Making the new Blastbones morph a zombie thrall could make sense, but I doubt they're going to add in a new pet for a model and animation that already exists.

Sparxlost · February 11

OsUfi wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

for me when i think necromancer, i think army of undead lol, with the added life draining

Not wanting to quote your whole post, that's what Necros in Diablo and GW1 are like. Necromancers in Elder Scrolls have never been about an army of undead. You even say yourself that you mod Skyrim to be like that. So then even that's not what an Elder Scrolls necromancer is.

The only additional summons I would have taken as Elder Scrolls raised dead would have been something like a short lived bone Goliath, but I guess we have the morph and Colossus for that. And a thrall. But what's a thrall going to add to the table that Skeletal arcanists and archer don't already provide? Making the new Blastbones morph a zombie thrall could make sense, but I doubt they're going to add in a new pet for a model and animation that already exists.

If you played skyrim or pretty much any other ES game... there are many areas where it is implied that NECROMANCERS can permanently summon undead for various purposes, and some even still linger around after their creators demise...

just because the PC wasnt able to summon a mortal squadron of skeletons/zombies (live until they are killed) doesnt mean it wouldnt fit into the game..

if there was a serious debate, i would die on the permanent skele arc summons hill..

OsUfi · February 12

They can, but they're the minority, not the majority. The majority of necromatic magic in Elder Scrolls has been more akin to Soul Magic.

Necrotech_Master · February 12

OsUfi wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

for me when i think necromancer, i think army of undead lol, with the added life draining

Not wanting to quote your whole post, that's what Necros in Diablo and GW1 are like. Necromancers in Elder Scrolls have never been about an army of undead. You even say yourself that you mod Skyrim to be like that. So then even that's not what an Elder Scrolls necromancer is.

The only additional summons I would have taken as Elder Scrolls raised dead would have been something like a short lived bone Goliath, but I guess we have the morph and Colossus for that. And a thrall. But what's a thrall going to add to the table that Skeletal arcanists and archer don't already provide? Making the new Blastbones morph a zombie thrall could make sense, but I doubt they're going to add in a new pet for a model and animation that already exists.

i wouldnt mind the temp summons as much if they didnt suck so bad in their current state

i also would have preferred a temp summon bone colossus for an ultimate over the current colossus ultimate

and looking at most of the skills there isnt really anything in the current toolkit that is akin to soul magic or life draining really, if that were true both of the tethers would be able to attach to living targets instead of corpses

basically any skill they have that works on corpses if it worked on a live target would make more sense for life draining (and probably make most of those skills significantly easier to use)

the skeletal mage/archer summon is just plain bad, the dmg is far too low (i thought it was too low even before it got nerfed with all the other dot skills)

blastbones i would have liked more if it jumped to the target and could do some melee attacks for like a few seconds before exploding, or be a summon that exploded on death or after its time expired (something like 10 seconds), or at a bare minimum remove that awful skill lockout when one is already summoned

brandsnipe · February 12

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

OsUfi wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

for me when i think necromancer, i think army of undead lol, with the added life draining

Not wanting to quote your whole post, that's what Necros in Diablo and GW1 are like. Necromancers in Elder Scrolls have never been about an army of undead. You even say yourself that you mod Skyrim to be like that. So then even that's not what an Elder Scrolls necromancer is.

The only additional summons I would have taken as Elder Scrolls raised dead would have been something like a short lived bone Goliath, but I guess we have the morph and Colossus for that. And a thrall. But what's a thrall going to add to the table that Skeletal arcanists and archer don't already provide? Making the new Blastbones morph a zombie thrall could make sense, but I doubt they're going to add in a new pet for a model and animation that already exists.

i wouldnt mind the temp summons as much if they didnt suck so bad in their current state

i also would have preferred a temp summon bone colossus for an ultimate over the current colossus ultimate

and looking at most of the skills there isnt really anything in the current toolkit that is akin to soul magic or life draining really, if that were true both of the tethers would be able to attach to living targets instead of corpses

basically any skill they have that works on corpses if it worked on a live target would make more sense for life draining (and probably make most of those skills significantly easier to use)

the skeletal mage/archer summon is just plain bad, the dmg is far too low (i thought it was too low even before it got nerfed with all the other dot skills)

blastbones i would have liked more if it jumped to the target and could do some melee attacks for like a few seconds before exploding, or be a summon that exploded on death or after its time expired (something like 10 seconds), or at a bare minimum remove that awful skill lockout when one is already summoned

I have a couple ideas that i think would lift necros up and give it the feel of being a necromancer all while using the corpse mechanic.

1. I would change boneyard to a 12m radius which would be the same as templar's ritual. Avid boneyard doesn't let you use your own synergy, it now spawns a corpse ever 3 seconds for 18-24 seconds. Thats 6-8 corpses. Unnerving boneyard applies major breach and enemies that leave the radius maintain the debuff for 10 seconds. I would change the skill to where the DoT is applied to all enemies that enter the radius, that way the DoT is sticky and makes use of rapid rot and gravelords sacrifice.
2. Buff the damage and increase the duration of skeletal mage to 24 seconds. The problem i've found with my magcro is the constant upkeep of skills cause of the short durations. I think mage should be 30 seconds but 24 is the most likely if there were ever a change and a 24 second window window is manageable. Or make the skill's duration increased by "x" amount of seconds per corpse consumed . Make summoners armor also increase the duration by lets say 30%. A 20 second mage is now 26 seconds, a 24 second mage is 31 and a 30 second mage is 39 seconds. This give necro a lot of breathing room in the rotation and helps with sustain. I would also change the morph to summon 2 mages/archers that deal an increase in "x" amount of damage capped out at 150%. This maintains the current archers increase in damage while getting a "army of dead" feel to it by summoning an additional pet.
3. A skill or class passive to summon the dead from corpses. Necro needs some passive changes and an interesting one would be while in combat a zombie raises from the ground to fight along side you for 6 seconds, can occur every 10 seconds. Or a skill to just reanimate corpses.