twistedodean14 wrote: »Anecdotal information does not prove anything. While we do not have the data from behind the scenes we can keep accurate information from every match and see what is going on across 100 to 1000 matches. That helps with making something more than an opinion.
Hence me stating that I have no proof outside of the patterns I noticed. Not mention people who have experienced the same thing I do. How and when they manifest. The only way to prove something like this without a doubt is literally get access the code. and that will never happen. Most we can do is raise awareness until they balance then game.
twistedodean14 wrote: »What's with people picking rajin, Hlaalu and almalexia? Trying these long drawn out games?
spartaxoxo wrote: »The game isn't rigged. The same players end up in the leaderboard consistently. There is an element of RNG, because it's a card game. But skill is also a factor.
Why don't you try posting a video of your gameplay? I'm sure someone would be happy to send you some tips.
spartaxoxo wrote: »The game isn't rigged. The same players end up in the leaderboard consistently. There is an element of RNG, because it's a card game. But skill is also a factor.
Why don't you try posting a video of your gameplay? I'm sure someone would be happy to send you some tips.
the game may not be rigged but it is certainly the system that decides who wins or not, I always end up in the middle of the table and after that the matches in the last few days make me lose practically all of them, the same thing always happens every months,,how do you explain it? If I didn't know how to play I wouldn't get to the top 50!
spartaxoxo wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »The game isn't rigged. The same players end up in the leaderboard consistently. There is an element of RNG, because it's a card game. But skill is also a factor.
Why don't you try posting a video of your gameplay? I'm sure someone would be happy to send you some tips.
the game may not be rigged but it is certainly the system that decides who wins or not, I always end up in the middle of the table and after that the matches in the last few days make me lose practically all of them, the same thing always happens every months,,how do you explain it? If I didn't know how to play I wouldn't get to the top 50!
I don't know your play well enough (or at all) to comment on why you may be personally having issues. So don't read the following as commentary on your play. It's not, just an attempt at answering your question about why some people feel the game is more RNG than others.
But I do know there are players with very high winrates.
I also know there are some decks that are likely to be overpowered for how simple they are, which are more RNG dependant than some of the slower decks. Obviously I don't have stats to know this one for sure, but I have noticed power rushing/crow srats being a common theme in the RNG complaints. And those strats are more RNG than others.
I also know a lot of skilled players have exited the competitive pool due to the low quality in competitive matchmaking.
I also know that some people experience tilt and don't recognize when comeback strategies are available to them.
I also know some people do things that weigh RNG against them without realizing it e.g buying up all the powerful cards, cluttering their deck. I had this issue myself. This was my biggest issue back when I thought the game was a bit more RNG than it is. That isn't to say RNG doesn't play a factor. It's a card game, ofc it does.
I also know some people don't know how to best use the various deck control cards which can help lower the dependence on RNG.
Etc etc.
There's so many reasons people may be experiencing issues. But there are others who have winrates of like 90% and are always at the very top of the leaderboards.
twistedodean14 wrote: »Anecdotal information does not prove anything. While we do not have the data from behind the scenes we can keep accurate information from every match and see what is going on across 100 to 1000 matches. That helps with making something more than an opinion.
Hence me stating that I have no proof outside of the patterns I noticed. Not mention people who have experienced the same thing I do. How and when they manifest. The only way to prove something like this without a doubt is literally get access the code. and that will never happen. Most we can do is raise awareness until they balance then game.
Oh yes, I caught the statement that there was no proof and clearly stated that without proof the information is merely anecdotal at best. Anecdotal information provides no validity to a conclusion.
MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »twistedodean14 wrote: »What's with people picking rajin, Hlaalu and almalexia? Trying these long drawn out games?
well they do represent a quarter of the decks available and you have to pick 2...
twistedodean14 wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »The game isn't rigged. The same players end up in the leaderboard consistently. There is an element of RNG, because it's a card game. But skill is also a factor.
Why don't you try posting a video of your gameplay? I'm sure someone would be happy to send you some tips.
the game may not be rigged but it is certainly the system that decides who wins or not, I always end up in the middle of the table and after that the matches in the last few days make me lose practically all of them, the same thing always happens every months,,how do you explain it? If I didn't know how to play I wouldn't get to the top 50!
I don't know your play well enough (or at all) to comment on why you may be personally having issues. So don't read the following as commentary on your play. It's not, just an attempt at answering your question about why some people feel the game is more RNG than others.
But I do know there are players with very high winrates.
I also know there are some decks that are likely to be overpowered for how simple they are, which are more RNG dependant than some of the slower decks. Obviously I don't have stats to know this one for sure, but I have noticed power rushing/crow srats being a common theme in the RNG complaints. And those strats are more RNG than others.
I also know a lot of skilled players have exited the competitive pool due to the low quality in competitive matchmaking.
I also know that some people experience tilt and don't recognize when comeback strategies are available to them.
I also know some people do things that weigh RNG against them without realizing it e.g buying up all the powerful cards, cluttering their deck. I had this issue myself. This was my biggest issue back when I thought the game was a bit more RNG than it is. That isn't to say RNG doesn't play a factor. It's a card game, ofc it does.
I also know some people don't know how to best use the various deck control cards which can help lower the dependence on RNG.
Etc etc.
There's so many reasons people may be experiencing issues. But there are others who have winrates of like 90% and are always at the very top of the leaderboards.
Obviously there will be players with very high win rates if the selects for them, to consistently get good cards and combos via the deck shuffle and the tavern, along with decent understanding of ToT. ToT isn't hard to play. There isn't a crazy amount of strategy to the game either. it's not about what people feel. It's literally what they experience. if they are experiencing a particular pattern consistently they would have to be brain dead to not notice it. You keep bringing these obvious strategies, when its was made clear there is no lack of strategy, skill or understanding of the game. I don't need deck manage strategies, or tavern management strategies or any of that stuff. if you know basic ToT and you get great cards via the shuffle or tavern. You cannot lose. So, the win rates have absolutely nothing to do with rng. Because strategy requires cars. if you cant get cards, you can't apply any strategy not matter how good you are. This thing about win rates have absolutely nothing to do with the topic. If you're lucky enough to not experience bad rng ever or rarely. Congratulations. However, don't come here gaslighting folks with common sense ToT stuff. I literal get DM'd by players on here and on platforms by players who have bad rng. i don't gaslight them. I give them tips on how to navigated bad rng.
SeaGtGruff wrote: »Personally, I don't believe the game decides who's going to win ahead of time and manipulates the deck accordingly; it's just RNG, and any appearance of a predetermined outcome is nothing more than that-- appearance. But players are going to blame their losses on the game cheating no matter what anyone tells them to the contrary. It's the same in PvP and ToT-- if you win, it's because you're so awesome; but if you lose, it's because the other player (or the game) was cheating.
you can't compare ToT to PvP, in the second you have to know the skill class well and you have to be unquestionably good at ToT being good isn't enough you can know the patrons perfectly and you can have all the strategies but if you don't need the right cards... you understand from the first hands how the match will go and yes there are players who enjoy this advantage
tonyaccount wrote: »A whole year of nothing but first places. Do you want to give me an explanation how this is possible in a game that's overwhelmingly decided by luck?
Pixiepumpkin wrote: »Except its not tinfoil wackiness. I know as a 100% fact that accounts can be debuffed in a different extremely popular MMORPG. This is done to essentially ruin gameplay for loud dissenting voices so that the players go away. It's insanely easy to spot this in the design philosophy.
SeaGtGruff wrote: »Personally, I don't believe the game decides who's going to win ahead of time and manipulates the deck accordingly; it's just RNG, and any appearance of a predetermined outcome is nothing more than that-- appearance. But players are going to blame their losses on the game cheating no matter what anyone tells them to the contrary. It's the same in PvP and ToT-- if you win, it's because you're so awesome; but if you lose, it's because the other player (or the game) was cheating.
you can't compare ToT to PvP, in the second you have to know the skill class well and you have to be unquestionably good at ToT being good isn't enough you can know the patrons perfectly and you can have all the strategies but if you don't need the right cards... you understand from the first hands how the match will go and yes there are players who enjoy this advantage
Bumping this thread back to the top. I know this whole topic might sound a little bit ridiculous, but personal experience still has some merit. It at least should warrant further investigation.
I've had suspicious losing streaks as well (and will admit sometimes it's my fault). However, I still don't have a good feeling on the how these games played out.
Running some basic numbers:
- I made it to the top 10% last season so let's approximate my win rate to be at least 60%. That means on average I should have a 40% chance of losing.
- Today, I lost about 6 games in a row in Voidsteel League, this isn't even ranked yet.
- Basic probability of this occurring is 0.4^6. This is 0.4% chance of occurring, which is rather small to keep on experiencing these drastic losing streaks.
- With that said, there are definitely qualitative factors that may invalidate my assumptions on calculating probabilities. As I mentioned earlier, I believe this still worthy of some sort of investigation (if there would ever be one).
Here is a screenshot of proof of my ranking from last season:
Here is a YouTube video on how I play in case anyone wants to verify my skill level. Keep in mind this is a one-sided game. I was using this video to critique ToT in another thread. And no, I'm not trying to promote a YouTube channel. There is only one video on this channel and it was made to prove another point.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJoyk3f9mqw&t=6s