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NPC AI and Red Eagle - Still Very Wacky Behavior

disky
disky
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I'm very curious about why the NPC AI is still consistently handling Red Eagle's discard effects so poorly. It seems to have zero sense of priority in which cards it discards, when to stop discarding, when to discard multiple cards (it only ever seems to discard a single card even when it has the option to discard more) and why, if given the chance, it will discard its entire deck. This has been a major issue with the AI behavior since ToT was released, and while I understand that because making good decisions about discards can be complex it may not be the simplest issue to address, surely certain parts can be resolved by establishing priority behavior (based on card value, power, deck preference or a combination of these), and preventing a full deck discard.

This is an old image but it's still valid today. Can you spot the problem?
x67hwv0c3dys.png
Edited by ZOS_Kevin on November 7, 2024 10:35AM
  • Necrotech_Master
    Necrotech_Master
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    doesnt seem like a problem to me, seems like an easy win lol

    not to mention its hilarious

    even without the red eagle deck, they are still very bad with deck pruning actions (ragpicker treasury card, converting cards with the treasury patron, and sacrificing every card they get to hlaalu)

    its just more noticeable with red eagle in play because theres significantly more deck pruning cards with that deck
    plays PC/NA
    handle @Necrotech_Master
    active player since april 2014

    i have my main house (grand topal hideaway) listed in the housing tours, it has multiple target dummies, scribing altar, and grandmaster stations (in progress being filled out), as well as almost every antiquity furnishing on display to preview them

    feel free to stop by and use the facilities
  • disky
    disky
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    its just more noticeable with red eagle in play because theres significantly more deck pruning cards with that deck

    Oh I agree, but this is the easiest way to inform/remind the devs that the problem remains ongoing. I'm sure that if they do get around to addressing it for Red Eagle, they would do the same for all other decks as well.
  • Jusey1
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    disky wrote: »
    while I understand that because making good decisions about discards can be complex it may not be the simplest issue to address

    No, it would be extremely simple to address in all honesty. ESO should have some kind of tag system pretty easily which tells the AI what to do and what to priority, so it should be extremely easy to use a blacklist tag at the very least to tell the AI to NEVER discard one list of cards and a high priority tag to cards that should always be discarded first before anything else. Which will heavily improve the AI to this problem as it should focus on specific cards first whenever it gets the option to discard and will never get rid of high value cards that it wants. Sure, this might cause an issue where it won't use the Hlaalu Patreon sometimes when it could've but I think that's a better deal than using the red eagle deck as an easy cheese method of beating the AI every time.
  • disky
    disky
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    Jusey1 wrote: »
    disky wrote: »
    while I understand that because making good decisions about discards can be complex it may not be the simplest issue to address

    No, it would be extremely simple to address in all honesty. ESO should have some kind of tag system pretty easily which tells the AI what to do and what to priority, so it should be extremely easy to use a blacklist tag at the very least to tell the AI to NEVER discard one list of cards and a high priority tag to cards that should always be discarded first before anything else. Which will heavily improve the AI to this problem as it should focus on specific cards first whenever it gets the option to discard and will never get rid of high value cards that it wants. Sure, this might cause an issue where it won't use the Hlaalu Patreon sometimes when it could've but I think that's a better deal than using the red eagle deck as an easy cheese method of beating the AI every time.

    This was the gist/intent of my suggestion at the end of the post, yeah. Hopefully they come around to the idea and assign someone to do it, because it's really bringing the NPC game down for me.
  • El_Borracho
    El_Borracho
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    Its not confined to Red Eagle anymore, either. Played an expert NPC using the Mora deck. He got Cipher of the Eye, a card I was more than happy to see him get. He used it to destroy a card in his hand on every turn, giving me 3 coin every time, until all he was stuck with was Cipher of the Eye.

    Whatever the AI is for the NPCs, its hilariously broken with the destroy a card mechanic.
  • Necrotech_Master
    Necrotech_Master
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    Its not confined to Red Eagle anymore, either. Played an expert NPC using the Mora deck. He got Cipher of the Eye, a card I was more than happy to see him get. He used it to destroy a card in his hand on every turn, giving me 3 coin every time, until all he was stuck with was Cipher of the Eye.

    Whatever the AI is for the NPCs, its hilariously broken with the destroy a card mechanic.

    they are bad with the treasury too

    i played a game the other day where an NPC had an armory and a midnight raid, and within a few turns converted both to writs of coin lol
    plays PC/NA
    handle @Necrotech_Master
    active player since april 2014

    i have my main house (grand topal hideaway) listed in the housing tours, it has multiple target dummies, scribing altar, and grandmaster stations (in progress being filled out), as well as almost every antiquity furnishing on display to preview them

    feel free to stop by and use the facilities
  • Personofsecrets
    Personofsecrets
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    Its not confined to Red Eagle anymore, either. Played an expert NPC using the Mora deck. He got Cipher of the Eye, a card I was more than happy to see him get. He used it to destroy a card in his hand on every turn, giving me 3 coin every time, until all he was stuck with was Cipher of the Eye.

    Whatever the AI is for the NPCs, its hilariously broken with the destroy a card mechanic.

    they are bad with the treasury too

    i played a game the other day where an NPC had an armory and a midnight raid, and within a few turns converted both to writs of coin lol

    Wow, how embarassing
    Don't tank

    "In future content we will probably adjust this model somewhat (The BOP model). It's definitely nice to be able to find a cool item that you don't need and trade it to someone who can't wait to get their hands on it." - Wrobel
  • Pixiepumpkin
    Pixiepumpkin
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    Its not confined to Red Eagle anymore, either. Played an expert NPC using the Mora deck. He got Cipher of the Eye, a card I was more than happy to see him get. He used it to destroy a card in his hand on every turn, giving me 3 coin every time, until all he was stuck with was Cipher of the Eye.

    Whatever the AI is for the NPCs, its hilariously broken with the destroy a card mechanic.

    Lol. I had the same thing happen. I can't say what I called the NPC on the forums. But it started with a d, rhymes with "bum" and ended with the slang term for donkey.

    My head shaking (due to disbelief) would not stop. Lol
    "𝕰𝖛𝖊𝖓 𝕲𝖔𝖉𝖘 𝖉𝖎𝖘𝖑𝖎𝖐𝖊 𝖙𝖍𝖊 𝖆𝖇𝖘𝖔𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖊, 𝖋𝖔𝖗 𝖎𝖙 𝖘𝖙𝖎𝖓𝖐𝖘 𝖔𝖋 𝖘𝖔𝖒𝖊𝖙𝖍𝖎𝖓𝖌 𝖑𝖆𝖗𝖌𝖊𝖗 𝖙𝖍𝖆𝖓 𝖙𝖍𝖊𝖒𝖘𝖊𝖑𝖛𝖊𝖘." ― Sotha Sil
    PC/NA
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