Will tank mains be using Inner Beast now?

frogthroat · January 31

Inner Beast will now provide Minor Vulnerability and Minor Maim instead of 10% damage taken from the caster.

Minor Maim can be provided by DK, Necro, NB or Arcanist. Minor Vulnerability can be provided by Necro, NB, Warden, or Arcanist. Will this skill now be used although the other morph, pierce armor, destro taunt, silver leash, DK chain, and Arcanist taunt already exist?

I'm just confused what is the benefit of this skill, because as someone who likes to solo things this is a huge setback. The 10% damage taken is huge. But now, Arcanist gets both of those debuffs from class skills so Inner Beast will be completely useless in Arcanist solo builds and loses a lot of utility in Templar solo builds.

Is this actually a beneficial change for tanks or is this just ZOS saying "Play the way you like... as long as it's not solo."

Soarora · January 31

We already used inner rage as a range taunt. Whether or not to swap morphs I guess depends on how the individual plays. For me, it is beneficial to swap to this new morph because I use it in trash where the enemies don’t stay alive enough to warrant a synergy.

That said, the only issues I’ve had with the original inner beast is PuGs taunting but that’s only happened like… once or twice ever so its a nonissue.

frogthroat · January 31

So... some tanks might change the morph to this one to make fast trash encounters slightly faster? Sounds like quite a small benefit for completely destroying this extremely important morph for solo players.

Soarora · January 31

frogthroat wrote: »

So... some tanks might change the morph to this one to make fast trash encounters slightly faster? Sounds like quite a small benefit for completely destroying this extremely important morph for solo players.

It is a small benefit. I’ve not really heard of brawler tanks that this change is supposed to help.
Having a tank do damage reads as concerning to me too because sweaty groups may start requiring tanks to do mechanics and keep up uptimes and live and also do damage.

Vulkunne · January 31

Actually for my Tank I do the maim and vulnerability stuff on my S&B bar. So this change does nothing for me. I use S&B with an Ice Staff and separate aggros for each bar. I mean... sure I'll take it but OP I think we can agree its better the way it is now.

Really no need for this change and I don't see it doing much for those who run Tank role. It really doesn't help much at all. Kind of useless.

frogthroat · February 1

The PTS forum is quite active at the moment but this particular question seems to be the only one about the subject and judging from the lack of interest in this thread I would guess that tank mains are not eager to start using this morph in the future.

So it seems this change will not be beneficial to anyone (except a few tanks like Soarora who want to make fast trash encounters slightly faster), but will be devastating to solo players.

I understand the change in Plaguebreak, although that could have been handled slightly less heavy-handedly. But this change seems to affect only solo players for no apparent reason.

Ishtarknows · February 1

I'll still be using Destructive Clench. At least when it hits, it taunts. Inner fire and it's morphs seem to be a gamble on whether taunt actually sticks, or whether the big add goes on to clobber a DD regardless of being hit by the skill.

MashmalloMan · February 1

All morphs now give the Synergy guaranteed with no range requirement. Massive buff.

Inner Rage gives 3 synergies, costs magicka, and costs very little at that. Also a massive buff for tanks to provide their dps with more sustain and damage opportunities. Pretty sure that is the highlight of the skill, not the fact that it gives minor maim and vulnerability. Those are just there to support build flexibility for solo and small group play like dungeons, redundant or not, every other effect on the skill is pretty juicy.

For Inner Beast, it's a spammable now with how the cost/damage scales where as before it was a debuff. I could see this being decent for solo/overworld/vat/maelstrom content or tanks in dungeons that want to put out a bit more dps while still tanking. May see even more dumb damage dealers making mistakes with it though.

Since Undaunted is centered around dungeons, it seems both of these morphs are designed around that aspect of the game where you have 4 people in a party and may not be fully optimized.

ElderSmitter · February 1

I will stick with Heroic Slash. You get Minor Main and Minor Heroism. I would rather build Ultimate and let my Shock Glyph provide Minor Vulnerability.

EF321 · February 1

I am considering to use it as spammable on Bowsorc.

J18696 · February 1

Most tanks already get maim through frost clench and in the scenario you have a arcanist in group they already can source minor vuln same goes with healers using lightning staff already gives vuln this will probably just be for unoptimised groups

frogthroat · February 1

MashmalloMan wrote: »

For Inner Beast, it's a spammable now with how the cost/damage scales where as before it was a debuff. I could see this being decent for solo/

The old version is a wonderful skill for solo. That 10% damage taken from caster is what makes it important. There is nothing in this new version that would be useful for, say, Arcanist who gets those debuffs from class skills directly. So no, the new one is not going to be a decent for solo. It is going to be either completely useless or at best a huge nerf.

I initially posed this question so I could see if tanks are actually going to be using this morph. Of course this skill line is for group play and if the new morph is now going to be the go-to morph instead of Inner Rage, then so be it. The balancing should be focused on group play. But if tanks are not going to be using the new Inner Beast, then I am not that happy with the change. The 10% damage taken is a very important skill for solo players.

MashmalloMan · February 1

frogthroat wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

For Inner Beast, it's a spammable now with how the cost/damage scales where as before it was a debuff. I could see this being decent for solo/

The old version is a wonderful skill for solo. That 10% damage taken from caster is what makes it important. There is nothing in this new version that would be useful for, say, Arcanist who gets those debuffs from class skills directly. So no, the new one is not going to be a decent for solo. It is going to be either completely useless or at best a huge nerf.

I initially posed this question so I could see if tanks are actually going to be using this morph. Of course this skill line is for group play and if the new morph is now going to be the go-to morph instead of Inner Rage, then so be it. The balancing should be focused on group play. But if tanks are not going to be using the new Inner Beast, then I am not that happy with the change. The 10% damage taken is a very important skill for solo players.

I get that, but they clearly changed their mind on what these skills should be. Where as it was a debuff skill before to buff all your other damage, it's now a spammable, and trust me, builds in solo will find use from it. Minor maim and vulnerability can be hard to come by for a stam ranged DD or tanks want that to be somewhere in between tank/dd, maybe for 4 man dungeons where the taunt is still useful.

Is it meta? Is it endgame? Probably not, but not everything has to be.

frogthroat · February 1

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Where as it was a debuff skill before to buff all your other damage, it's now a spammable, and trust me, builds in solo will find use from it.

Maybe. I solo dungeons with magplar and arcanist so I don't really know as intimately how other classes perform. Arcanist won't be needing it after the change. With magplar, maybe. Blazing spear will still outperform the damage but the damage increase is... well, I guess ok. (There's a "so I got that going for me" meme somewhere.) But it will not become a new spammable.

For magplar there's no reasonable way to get minor vulnerability (or minor maim), so it will be just cutting the bonus in half. The sets that give min vul (or min maim) are not really usable. The biggest hit will be arcanist that has access to both of those debuffs in class skills and the 10% stacks with minor vulnerability. So for magplar it cuts the bonus in half and for arcanist it makes the skill unusable.

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Is it meta? Is it endgame? Probably not, but not everything has to be.

Before the change it is pretty meta. 10% stackable damage increase in boss fights is no joke. But after the change, not so much. I know I am basically just complaining "but muh meta". Would be less annoying if this change would actually benefit tanks in group play.

chessalavakia_ESO · February 1

The morph in question had it's cost reduced, it's damage dramatically increased, it's synergy chance increased, and applies two additional buffs at the cost of no longer increasing your damage by 10%.

Yes, in some situations that isn't going to be a good deal but, I would not necessarily assume it's a bad deal overall.