Brennan wrote: »

Evanis wrote: »

*snip*
The devs are capable of implementing a proper AH. They rushed ESO out the door too fast and holding back the release to consoles for six additional months proves it.

They left the AH out to meet the 4-4-2014 deadline? Source please?

The exclusion of an Auction House wasn't an afterthought. It was intentional.

Source, please? Saying it was intentional gets you NOWHERE without knowledge of the MOTIVATION BEHIND THE INTENT. The mens rea. Google it. Idiotic isn't it. Sure it was intentional, as they intended to not deliver because they could not for whatever reason, probably resources/time/expertise.

How about we have yet to hear one solid or rational argument from the devs as to why they offered a product without a basic feature that is pretty much an MMO standard. Absent that explanation, and all the BS fanboism in this thread, which can't come up with a single valid reason, such speculation is warranted and likely correct.

I would much rather they ran out of time, than they are just that stupid. It bodes better for the games future, as more time they have.

ozgod22_eso wrote: »

I voted yes. They can easily make certain items soulbound on pickup if they don't want them to be resold on the AH.

[s][/s]

They can do a lot of things, but they are hell bent on keeping things difficult for the sake of being difficult. I'm all for a non-handholding kind of game, but a no central hub, respec everything for 15k only and having my armor break every game hour only to repair it for 2-4k type of mechanics have led me to believe they want me to suffer hardships.

Why? I haven't a clue. It's a good game, but these things can, are, and will irk the crap out of everyone playing.

SunfireKnight86 wrote: »

methjester wrote: »

Brennan wrote: »

SunfireKnight86 wrote: »

Brennan wrote: »

Evanis wrote: »

*snip*
The devs are capable of implementing a proper AH. They rushed ESO out the door too fast and holding back the release to consoles for six additional months proves it.

They left the AH out to meet the 4-4-2014 deadline? Source please?

The exclusion of an Auction House wasn't an afterthought. It was intentional.

Source please? I hear a lot of people saying this but I've never seen it anywhere.

EDIT: LOL. Found this. These people have no clue what they're doing.

http://www.destructoid.com/zenimax-confusingly-endorses-an-online-forum-to-support-trading-in-elder-scrolls-online-273206.phtml

I'm sorry. How does this support the claim that the game shipped without an auction house to meet a release deadline?

EvE Online's market is not global. It is regional. Additionally, the items you purchased from the market do not magically appear in your mail - you have to do "pointless leg work" to go get them.

Further, there are people that play Eve Online solely as traders undercutting each other repeatedly by 0.01 ISK. Is that what you're looking for here?

SunfireKnight86 wrote:

Let's find the item in a shop Online- Elder Scrolls Edition isn't fun

You want to play Auction House Online?

Eve is an auction house with an MMO attached. This game is a cluster&$k of an economy.

/zone wts something
/zone wts something else
/zone wts anything

Agreed. 90% of EVE is making money. Hell, one of the biggest pass-times in that game is killing any player you lay your eyes on if they don't pay you.

You can't kill people in EVE - all players are immortal though the technology of cloning.

Piracy however and open-world PvP are very much a part of that game.

Brennan wrote: »

SunfireKnight86 wrote: »

Brennan wrote: »

Evanis wrote: »

*snip*
The devs are capable of implementing a proper AH. They rushed ESO out the door too fast and holding back the release to consoles for six additional months proves it.

They left the AH out to meet the 4-4-2014 deadline? Source please?

The exclusion of an Auction House wasn't an afterthought. It was intentional.

Source please? I hear a lot of people saying this but I've never seen it anywhere.

EDIT: LOL. Found this. These people have no clue what they're doing.

http://www.destructoid.com/zenimax-confusingly-endorses-an-online-forum-to-support-trading-in-elder-scrolls-online-273206.phtml

I'm sorry. How does this support the claim that the game shipped without an auction house to meet a release deadline?

EvE Online's market is not global. It is regional. Additionally, the items you purchased from the market do not magically appear in your mail - you have to do "pointless leg work" to go get them.

Further, there are people that play Eve Online solely as traders undercutting each other repeatedly by 0.01 ISK. Is that what you're looking for here?

SunfireKnight86 wrote:

Let's find the item in a shop Online- Elder Scrolls Edition isn't fun

You want to play Auction House Online?

There are a lot of playstyles in MMOs that I find ridiculous, but that isn't for any one person to say...MMOs HAVE TO APPEAL TO a wide variety of playstyles to be profitable and provide diversity in their communities that leads to longevity.

Again, you stick to the core principles that lead to a robust healthy economy. AHs are a central part of that strategy. Attempting market health via market strangulation is idiotic and is what we have now. It does not work. Apparently Zeni is trying to un-noob a bit and has started to realize the scope of their problem...albeit with a laughable first step at recovery...as one tweet said"

"When ESO is advertising third-party websites to perform an in-game function, it's time to re-evaluate in-game systems."

Brennan wrote: »

Dyvim wrote: »

Brennan wrote: »

SunfireKnight86 wrote: »

Brennan wrote: »

Evanis wrote: »

*snip*
The devs are capable of implementing a proper AH. They rushed ESO out the door too fast and holding back the release to consoles for six additional months proves it.

They left the AH out to meet the 4-4-2014 deadline? Source please?

The exclusion of an Auction House wasn't an afterthought. It was intentional.

Source please? I hear a lot of people saying this but I've never seen it anywhere.

EDIT: LOL. Found this. These people have no clue what they're doing.

http://www.destructoid.com/zenimax-confusingly-endorses-an-online-forum-to-support-trading-in-elder-scrolls-online-273206.phtml

I'm sorry. How does this support the claim that the game shipped without an auction house to meet a release deadline?

EvE Online's market is not global. It is regional. Additionally, the items you purchased from the market do not magically appear in your mail - you have to do "pointless leg work" to go get them.

Further, there are people that play Eve Online solely as traders undercutting each other repeatedly by 0.01 ISK. Is that what you're looking for here?

SunfireKnight86 wrote:

Let's find the item in a shop Online- Elder Scrolls Edition isn't fun

You want to play Auction House Online?

There are a lot of playstyles in MMOs that I find ridiculous, but that isn't for any one person to say...MMOs HAVE TO APPEAL TO a wide variety of playstyles to be profitable and provide diversity in their communities that leads to longevity.

Again, you stick to the core principles that lead to a robust healthy economy. AHs are a central part of that strategy. Attempting market health via market strangulation is idiotic and is what we have now. It does not work. Apparently Zeni is trying to un-noob a bit and has started to realize the scope of their problem...albeit with a laughable first step at recovery...

Where is the Auction House in your town? I'm not sure I have one in my town and there's 200,000 people here. Economy seems to be fine here is spite of the lack of a central part of that strategy.

You really think the economy is fine in this game? What flavor of Kool-Aid are you drinking. I want some.

Dyvim wrote: »

Now I feel sad and sorry for Zeni, kind of like our reliable misguided discussion partner @brennan here...

The auction house in my town are these things called the NYSE and the NASDAQ to name two of the big ones. I make trades on them all the time, with this new thing, called the internet, maybe you have heard of it...come to think of it, this game uses the same means of connectivity. Poor @brennan...

Shredded again...I'm amazed you still keep coming back for more...lol

I'm pretty sure the people living in an isolated village in Nairobi would love the addition of some sort of auction or trading house so they didn't have to go from door to door trading.

Brennan wrote: »

Where is the Auction House in your town? I'm not sure I have one in my town and there's 200,000 people here. Economy seems to be fine here is spite of the lack of a central part of that strategy.

There's obviously not a literal auction house in real life. That's an extremely bad comparison.

Here's a better comparison: It's called "The Internet" and "Retail Stores". If you're living in a town of 200k people, chances are that there are multiple stores selling similar if not the exact same goods and services. I guarantee that they keep an eye on the prices of their competitors and adjust their prices to be competitive with each other. I also guarantee that many of them do this magical thing called "price-matching" where you can find an item selling for a lower price elsewhere, bring them the advertisement or direct them to the lower price online and they'll match the price. As a consumer, you also have the option of purchasing goods and services from all of these retail and online merchants. I would assume that you, like anyone else with common sense, would shop around to find the best price and purchase from whichever seller gives you the best deal.

The economy in ESO right now is basically like living in that town of 200k people but having no internet access and only being able to shop at a handful of stores. This handful of stores all require a membership and do not price-match. Most of the customers of each store aren't aware of the prices of other stores so are forced to pay whatever the prices are set in their stores since they have no other choice. Sure, you can see that there are a lot of other stores in the town, but every time you want to try a new store, you need to cut ties with one of your regular stores and go stand in front of the new store yelling at people on the street and hoping that one of them is a member of the store that will invite you to be a member of their store, as well as hoping that the store hasn't reached its membership capacity, otherwise you can't be a member.

Brennan wrote: »

Then allow me to shred every argument you make on this topic @Dyvim.

Elder Scrolls Online has no global Auction House - never has.
There are no plans in the next year to add a global Auction House - at all.

And that is all that needs to be said. I am going to let you and all those who rant about an AH continue to do so with all the impotent fervor you can muster while those rants are again and again, ignored.

Do you have any idea how stupid that "never has" statement is, considering this is an MMO fresh off its launch? Obviously the playerbase and their lack of functionality isn't being ignored, or zeni wouldn't be trying to save face with the laughable tweet sponsoring a 3rd party auction solution. But please don't let facts and overwhelming evidence start figuring in to your "arguments".

@brennan tries again, fails again. Mr. Reliable. What, no comeback for shredding your last "where is the auction house post"??? Of course not, because your were embarrassingly shredded, so you have to fall back on the same thing you always fall back on "the game doesn't have it, change is bad, blah blah blah...." which is so fail in MMO land. Really sad.

Opioid wrote: »

...
The economy in ESO right now is basically like living in that town of 200k people but having no internet access and only being able to shop at a handful of stores. This handful of stores all require a membership and do not price-match. Most of the customers of each store aren't aware of the prices of other stores so are forced to pay whatever the prices are set in their stores since they have no other choice. Sure, you can see that there are a lot of other stores in the town, but every time you want to try a new store, you need to cut ties with one of your regular stores and go stand in front of the new store yelling at people on the street and hoping that one of them is a member of the store that will invite you to be a member of their store, as well as hoping that the store hasn't reached its membership capacity, otherwise you can't be a member.

This is so apt, so descriptive, it deserves to be SOURCED and CITED again...rofl.

Dyvim wrote: »

Allyah wrote: »

@SunfireKnight86‌
That's certainly nothing like what you said before...

And I don't need to trade. The game allows me to be completely self-sufficient. But keep trying to make everyone else look like a jack***. I'm sure that won't come around to bite you in the *** at any point in time.

An MMO that allows you to be COMPLETELY self sufficient, with NO need to trade...uh yeah, that is epic fail, right there. If Zeni put that on the box, most experienced players, that know what MMOs are and what makes them different, would immediately start scratching their heads. If you don't need to trade, are completely self sufficient...why play an MMO, especially one that claims to be heavy into crafting...

MMOs thrive on interdependencies, with players needing each other...ARPGs on the other hand are single player experiences. You just helped make the pro AH case for us by pointing out this game has an identity crisis...they claim its an MMO, but they haven't delivered on many MMO features yet.

I, of course, never mentioned that it wasn't a fail. Luckily (or unluckily?) for you, you're assumption that I don't think it is a fail was correct. Let's assume that everyone is self-sufficient as far as their gear and items go... are you telling me trading is the only thing people do together in an MMO?
Your statement proves nothing except that you clearly didn't think what you wrote through.

SunfireKnight86 wrote: »

Brennan wrote: »

SunfireKnight86 wrote: »

Once again, without it we are just doing pointless leg work. How is kiosk better than an AH if I can just go to 5,000 kiosks over a few hours and search for Dreugh Wax?

(Since they've confirmed Kiosks)

So the reason you want an AH is because you don't want to have to do a bunch of "pointless leg work" and search 5,000 kiosks for Dreugh Wax?

If it makes you feel any better I don't have a lot of Dreugh Wax either. Though my Clothing skill is 49, nearly 50. I guess I'll just keep refining cloth and leather and praying to the RNG gods, fickle as they are.

You know who is selling Dreugh Wax? All the yahoos that send me spam in my mail, selling it for a couple of bucks USD. Pretty sure that violates the TOS so I report them. I wonder where they would sell all that stuff if they were given access to a global AH. At least then we wouldn't have to worry about ninja guild invites to their "trading" guilds.

And pointless legwork? Buying stuff in EvE and then having to slowboat a hauler to pick it up and bring it back to your original station (auto-pilot at your own risk) or contract it through Red Frog or an independent contract would be weird in this game, wouldn't it?

With Wayshrines we wouldn't even have to do that!

I don't understand what you're saying about the gold/mat sellers. They're already there, an AH wouldn't make it worse. (Or at least I highly doubt it. I don't see how it could)

Convenience and makes it harder to catch the cheating.

SunfireKnight86 wrote: »

Brennan wrote: »

Dyvim wrote: »

Brennan wrote: »

SunfireKnight86 wrote: »

Brennan wrote: »

Evanis wrote: »

*snip*
The devs are capable of implementing a proper AH. They rushed ESO out the door too fast and holding back the release to consoles for six additional months proves it.

They left the AH out to meet the 4-4-2014 deadline? Source please?

The exclusion of an Auction House wasn't an afterthought. It was intentional.

Source please? I hear a lot of people saying this but I've never seen it anywhere.

EDIT: LOL. Found this. These people have no clue what they're doing.

http://www.destructoid.com/zenimax-confusingly-endorses-an-online-forum-to-support-trading-in-elder-scrolls-online-273206.phtml

I'm sorry. How does this support the claim that the game shipped without an auction house to meet a release deadline?

EvE Online's market is not global. It is regional. Additionally, the items you purchased from the market do not magically appear in your mail - you have to do "pointless leg work" to go get them.

Further, there are people that play Eve Online solely as traders undercutting each other repeatedly by 0.01 ISK. Is that what you're looking for here?

SunfireKnight86 wrote:

Let's find the item in a shop Online- Elder Scrolls Edition isn't fun

You want to play Auction House Online?

There are a lot of playstyles in MMOs that I find ridiculous, but that isn't for any one person to say...MMOs HAVE TO APPEAL TO a wide variety of playstyles to be profitable and provide diversity in their communities that leads to longevity.

Again, you stick to the core principles that lead to a robust healthy economy. AHs are a central part of that strategy. Attempting market health via market strangulation is idiotic and is what we have now. It does not work. Apparently Zeni is trying to un-noob a bit and has started to realize the scope of their problem...albeit with a laughable first step at recovery...

Where is the Auction House in your town? I'm not sure I have one in my town and there's 200,000 people here. Economy seems to be fine here is spite of the lack of a central part of that strategy.

An auction house of sorts is built into a real world economy. Lower prices = more sales. We all know the value of toilet paper. If someone tried to sell it for $500 we wouldn't pay. There is a reason Wal-Mart is the powerhouse it is in the US. They slightly undercut everyone and offered a wider selection.

If that's not good enough. www.ebay.com There you go.

@‌Brennan is trolling us at this point. Or he is that dense. Why waste good arguments on someone who won't ever "get it" and will just make stuff up to try and prove a point.

Don't waste your time on him. He's best ignored.

SunfireKnight86 wrote: »

Allyah wrote: »

Dyvim wrote: »

Allyah wrote: »

@SunfireKnight86‌
That's certainly nothing like what you said before...

And I don't need to trade. The game allows me to be completely self-sufficient. But keep trying to make everyone else look like a jack***. I'm sure that won't come around to bite you in the *** at any point in time.

An MMO that allows you to be COMPLETELY self sufficient, with NO need to trade...uh yeah, that is epic fail, right there. If Zeni put that on the box, most experienced players, that know what MMOs are and what makes them different, would immediately start scratching their heads. If you don't need to trade, are completely self sufficient...why play an MMO, especially one that claims to be heavy into crafting...

MMOs thrive on interdependencies, with players needing each other...ARPGs on the other hand are single player experiences. You just helped make the pro AH case for us by pointing out this game has an identity crisis...they claim its an MMO, but they haven't delivered on many MMO features yet.

I, of course, never mentioned that it wasn't a fail. Luckily (or unluckily?) for you, you're assumption that I don't think it is a fail was correct. Let's assume that everyone is self-sufficient as far as their gear and items go... are you telling me trading is the only thing people do together in an MMO?
Your statement proves nothing except that you clearly didn't think what you wrote through.

SunfireKnight86 wrote: »

Brennan wrote: »

SunfireKnight86 wrote: »

Once again, without it we are just doing pointless leg work. How is kiosk better than an AH if I can just go to 5,000 kiosks over a few hours and search for Dreugh Wax?

(Since they've confirmed Kiosks)

So the reason you want an AH is because you don't want to have to do a bunch of "pointless leg work" and search 5,000 kiosks for Dreugh Wax?

If it makes you feel any better I don't have a lot of Dreugh Wax either. Though my Clothing skill is 49, nearly 50. I guess I'll just keep refining cloth and leather and praying to the RNG gods, fickle as they are.

You know who is selling Dreugh Wax? All the yahoos that send me spam in my mail, selling it for a couple of bucks USD. Pretty sure that violates the TOS so I report them. I wonder where they would sell all that stuff if they were given access to a global AH. At least then we wouldn't have to worry about ninja guild invites to their "trading" guilds.

And pointless legwork? Buying stuff in EvE and then having to slowboat a hauler to pick it up and bring it back to your original station (auto-pilot at your own risk) or contract it through Red Frog or an independent contract would be weird in this game, wouldn't it?

With Wayshrines we wouldn't even have to do that!

I don't understand what you're saying about the gold/mat sellers. They're already there, an AH wouldn't make it worse. (Or at least I highly doubt it. I don't see how it could)

Convenience and makes it harder to catch the cheating.

How? If someone undercuts by 2k on a scale of hundreds of gold tempers it would be fairly obvious.

The WoW economy trumps all of this discussion IMO.
- Most things are resonably priced for their level. The only things that aren't are the raid drops and very rare twink drops. Since those are a niche market they should be expensive.
- People like me who played the AH and maxed out gold didn't ruin it for everyone else.
- Being super rich didn't give me any advantage in PvP or PvE since the best gear wasn't crafted. (Arguably it might here, but as you've pointed out it's very easy to be self-sufficient in this game)
- Having an AH allows people to get what they're looking for with no hassle. Arguably it's most important function. You don't have to spam the /trade channel (which they have) in order to sell something, it just makes it sell a little faster.
- It allows people to check to see if they're getting robbed.
- When they combined AHs last year it didn't result in everything losing all value like some people seem to think it would here effectively rendering the "mega server economy is different" argument obsolete.
- Items that are BoP can't be auctioned there. Making BoP items allows you this kind of flexibility.

Honestly man, there is no downside. Not doing it causes a myriad of problems, doing it does not. I could understand not wanting an AH if the game had a large distance/exploration factor, but it doesn't. My apartment feels bigger than this world because of the wayshrines.

I'm not having any problems with trading, or making gold, or selling stuff. Weird.

Is the problem for you that after a month you're not "game-rich" and that is what causes all this consternation? Weird.