Maintenance for the week of April 6:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 6
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 6
Nerf to Provisioning/Motifs AFTER Botters Gained Thousands = HUGELY Increases Demand/Prices for RMT
ChairGraveyard
✭✭✭✭
Recently there was a stealth nerf to the drop rates of provisioning items, motifs, recipes, and even racial crafting stones from the clutter containers in the game.
Unfortunately, this change was done after botters and RMT sellers accumulated thousands of these items.
This change has just jumped demand for gold sellers and botters by a TON, and also multiplied the price of their ill gotten gains.
Worst idea ever - you can't nerf drop rates into the ground AFTER botters get thousands and thousands of now super rare items.
It's caused several negative effects already:
1) Botters have thousands of items that were worth marginal amounts before, but now are so rare that people are willing to shell out hundreds of thousands of gold.
2) Players now do not have enough supply of these items, meaning they all have the temptation to buy from the only supply left: RMT item sellers/botters.
3) The nerfed state of the loot will only exacerbate this problem over time as more players give up trying to get items, while botters continue to bot it and supplement their already huge stock.
4) As the items get more and more rare and the remaining stock in players' hands is used, more stock of these items will remain only with gold sellers - making their ill gotten gains even more lucrative.
Unless, that is, the goal is helping botters and gold sellers and screwing players over as much as possible, as that's exactly the result of this ham-handed butterfingers change.
These changes which do not hurt bots, only legit players, and even help the botters out in various ways need to stop.
Edited by ChairGraveyard on May 8, 2014 5:54PM Unfortunately, this change was done after botters and RMT sellers accumulated thousands of these items.
This change has just jumped demand for gold sellers and botters by a TON, and also multiplied the price of their ill gotten gains.
Worst idea ever - you can't nerf drop rates into the ground AFTER botters get thousands and thousands of now super rare items.
It's caused several negative effects already:
1) Botters have thousands of items that were worth marginal amounts before, but now are so rare that people are willing to shell out hundreds of thousands of gold.
2) Players now do not have enough supply of these items, meaning they all have the temptation to buy from the only supply left: RMT item sellers/botters.
3) The nerfed state of the loot will only exacerbate this problem over time as more players give up trying to get items, while botters continue to bot it and supplement their already huge stock.
4) As the items get more and more rare and the remaining stock in players' hands is used, more stock of these items will remain only with gold sellers - making their ill gotten gains even more lucrative.
Unless, that is, the goal is helping botters and gold sellers and screwing players over as much as possible, as that's exactly the result of this ham-handed butterfingers change.
These changes which do not hurt bots, only legit players, and even help the botters out in various ways need to stop.
32
-
Lox✭✭✭Couldn't disagree more. The long term effect is marginal at best, as has been proven time and again in many other MMOs that have had the same problems, had similar 'fixes' and funnily enough, now have working economies.
And in just about all those other MMOs there is a single, server wide economy which would suffer far more than the segregated economies currently within ESO.16 -
I'm fairly certain this was a stopgap measure at best to insure the situation didn't get any worse.
Not unlike putting a patient into a lifesaving coma to stop traumatic brain injury from occurring while you fix the problems that have lead to the need.2 -
ChairGraveyard✭✭✭✭Jim_McMasterub17_ESO wrote: »I'm fairly certain this was a stopgap measure at best to insure the situation didn't get any worse.
Not unlike putting a patient into a lifesaving coma to stop traumatic brain injury from occurring while you fix the problems that have lead to the need.
I agree - it was a stop gap. Which had the opposite of intended effect.
Unless they WANTED to help RMT sellers by driving up demand and prices of their items through the roof.
That's the whole point of this thread - that the stop gap fix did the opposite of what it was supposed to do.
That's fine. But it's a fact that this change did nothing but help RMT sellers. So your opinion is rather irrelevant.Couldn't disagree more.Edited by ChairGraveyard on May 8, 2014 6:27PM4 -
Daverios✭✭✭✭I am hugely pissed about this stuff and the stealth nerf kick to the teeth for regular players.5
-
Arwyn✭✭✭To add to this (which may back you up a little), My gold spam mails now dont even mention gold, its all about the motifs....23
-
Draconiuos✭✭✭The only way this helps Gold sellers and such is if people buy from them. The first line of defense against bots is the players. If no one buys from them they will stop coming around. So, go head buy from these parasites and then cry when your account gets hacked/banned for your illicit activities.5
-
ChairGraveyard✭✭✭✭Draconiuos wrote: »The only way this helps Gold sellers and such is if people buy from them.
Thus the problem with this nerf - if you remove all the player supply of these items, it drives demand for RMT versions THROUGH THE ROOF.
Which is exactly what this has done.To add to this (which may back you up a little), My gold spam mails now dont even mention gold, its all about the motifs....
Hah yep, saw that too.Edited by ChairGraveyard on May 8, 2014 6:41PM3 -
Nox_Aeterna✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yeap , for now everyone is going to buy, hell even trade in game for it.
Still , maybe 1/2 years down the line this will help.
Yet another huge gold sink , like* everything else is ESO , gold sink after gold sink.Edited by Nox_Aeterna on May 8, 2014 6:54PM"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."
-Hanlon's razor2 -
Arwyn✭✭✭Draconiuos wrote: »The only way this helps Gold sellers and such is if people buy from them. The first line of defense against bots is the players. If no one buys from them they will stop coming around. So, go head buy from these parasites and then cry when your account gets hacked/banned for your illicit activities.
I totally agree, companies always talk very publicly when they ban sellers, I think they should be just as harsh and public with banning buyers, if they made it "fool proof" to detect the buyers from the seller accounts and banned them all publicly less people would think they could get away with it.
Why risk your $70 account buying gold if you know the company is going to ban you for it, seems the emphasis is on the sellers, kill the buyers off and the sellers go as a by-product.
3 -
Draconiuos✭✭✭
You are missing the fact that people were already buying from them. They wouldn't keep buying accounts and such if people weren't giving them money to do it. I have never thought of going to one of these sites to buy anything from them. If you do you are no better than they are, and are as much at fault for the nerf as them.ChairGraveyard wrote: »Draconiuos wrote: »The only way this helps Gold sellers and such is if people buy from them.
Thus the problem with this nerf - if you remove all the player supply of these items, it drives demand for RMT versions THROUGH THE ROOF.
Which is exactly what this has done.To add to this (which may back you up a little), My gold spam mails now dont even mention gold, its all about the motifs....
Hah yep, saw that too.
3 -
Soloeus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Draconiuos wrote: »The only way this helps Gold sellers and such is if people buy from them. The first line of defense against bots is the players. If no one buys from them they will stop coming around. So, go head buy from these parasites and then cry when your account gets hacked/banned for your illicit activities.
Sorry, I got lost in your babble. Red Herrings tend to do that. What were you saying about how the systems implemented by ZoS impact the situation?
Edited by Soloeus on May 8, 2014 6:48PM
Within; Without.4 -
Osi✭✭✭- Provisioning recipes and ingredients are EVERYWHERE, they were never rare. Even the ingredients you add to create blue and purple recipes. (Edit - Except maybe tomatoes, which are probably bugged...)
- Racial crafting stones can be purchased from merchants for a measly 5g a piece. The rarer stones cannot be obtained from loot sources but only by deconstructing drops. Again, no effect.
- Motifs aren't contingent on your progress in the game, and I'm sure you can live without them, wait until you find them yourself, or find a guild member willing to give or sell one to you at a reasonable price, without supporting botting and RWTing.Edited by Osi on May 8, 2014 6:53PM4 -
ChairGraveyard✭✭✭✭
They WERE everywhere. Not the supply is dry and botters hold the majority of the stock.- Provisioning recipes and ingredients are EVERYWHERE, they were never rare. Even the ingredients you add to create blue and purple recipes.
WROOOOONNNNNNNNNNNNNGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!!!- Racial crafting stones can be purchased from merchants for a measly 5g a piece. The rarer stones cannot be obtained from loot sources but only by deconstructing drops. Again, no effect.
Only the basic stones can be bought.
This isn't just about motifs, it's also about provisioning recipes and ingredients, which are now basically non-existant.- Motifs aren't contingent on your progress in the game, and I'm sure you can live without them, wait until you find them yourself, or find a guild member willing to give or sell one to you at a reasonable price.
Thanks for the PSA, though, Mr. RMT Seller (I must assume you are one, since the only people that benefit from this are RMT sellers, and thus are the only ones who should want this to continue).1 -
Drachenfier✭✭✭✭✭
✭OP is right, this was a poorly thought out change that, in the long term, will have little to no effect, but in the short term, will line the RMT's pockets with gold. This is reminiscent of the kind of things NCSoft would do. Everybody knows that company is in bed with the gold sellers.Edited by Drachenfier on May 8, 2014 6:57PM5 -
Draconiuos✭✭✭Draconiuos wrote: »The only way this helps Gold sellers and such is if people buy from them. The first line of defense against bots is the players. If no one buys from them they will stop coming around. So, go head buy from these parasites and then cry when your account gets hacked/banned for your illicit activities.
Sorry, I got lost in your babble. Red Herrings tend to do that. What were you saying about how the systems implemented by ZoS impact the situation?
Don't have anything to disprove me wrong, and so you try to dismiss it with a witless comment.1 -
ChairGraveyard✭✭✭✭Drachenfier wrote: »This is reminiscent of the kind of things NCSoft would do. Everybody knows that company is in bed with the gold sellers.
Hah yep, NCSoft-like for sure. All the diminishing returns changes remind me of them.2 -
Zab101✭Here's a novel idea for the devs, how about actually banning their accounts instead of implementing measures that hurt actual legitimate players? Go to coldharbor and get out the ban stick? How about actually taking a look at who is warping around underground mass harvesting nodes? Should of been more aggressive when you had them all farming in the dungeon delves, at least you knew where they were.
Oh wait, I guess it's actually easier to be reactive and just nerf everything the gold sellers take advantage of.2 -
Spiritreaver_ESO✭✭✭ChairGraveyard wrote: »Recently there was a stealth nerf to the drop rates of provisioning items, motifs, recipes, and even racial crafting stones from the clutter containers in the game.
Unfortunately, this change was done after botters and RMT sellers accumulated thousands of these items.
This change has just jumped demand for gold sellers and botters by a TON, and also multiplied the price of their ill gotten gains.
Worst idea ever - you can't nerf drop rates into the ground AFTER botters get thousands and thousands of now super rare items.
It's caused several negative effects already:
1) Botters have thousands of items that were worth marginal amounts before, but now are so rare that people are willing to shell out hundreds of thousands of gold.
2) Players now do not have enough supply of these items, meaning they all have the temptation to buy from the only supply left: RMT item sellers/botters.
3) The nerfed state of the loot will only exacerbate this problem over time as more players give up trying to get items, while botters continue to bot it and supplement their already huge stock.
4) As the items get more and more rare and the remaining stock in players' hands is used, more stock of these items will remain only with gold sellers - making their ill gotten gains even more lucrative.
Unless, that is, the goal is helping botters and gold sellers and screwing players over as much as possible, as that's exactly the result of this ham-handed butterfingers change.
These changes which do not hurt bots, only legit players, and even help the botters out in various ways need to stop.
OR
We can simply not buy from RMT and their horded supplies will rot.
RMT is only a problem because there are players buying from the RMTer's in the first place. If we as players just continue to play by the rules and report RMT when we see it, things will get better in time.
Do i really want the Ancient Elves motif? Damn right i do. But i refuse to pay an exorbitant price for it. The ridiculous 70k+ gold i heard just last night in zone chat OR the even more ridiculous notion that i pay some company real world cash for it.
Nah, i'll just go without until one of two things happen:
1) I get the motif as a loot item i find
2) The selling price from actual players comes back down to the realm of reason
Really it is as simple as that.
5 -
Nox_Aeterna✭✭✭✭✭
✭malikwalker_ESO wrote: »ChairGraveyard wrote: »Recently there was a stealth nerf to the drop rates of provisioning items, motifs, recipes, and even racial crafting stones from the clutter containers in the game.
Unfortunately, this change was done after botters and RMT sellers accumulated thousands of these items.
This change has just jumped demand for gold sellers and botters by a TON, and also multiplied the price of their ill gotten gains.
Worst idea ever - you can't nerf drop rates into the ground AFTER botters get thousands and thousands of now super rare items.
It's caused several negative effects already:
1) Botters have thousands of items that were worth marginal amounts before, but now are so rare that people are willing to shell out hundreds of thousands of gold.
2) Players now do not have enough supply of these items, meaning they all have the temptation to buy from the only supply left: RMT item sellers/botters.
3) The nerfed state of the loot will only exacerbate this problem over time as more players give up trying to get items, while botters continue to bot it and supplement their already huge stock.
4) As the items get more and more rare and the remaining stock in players' hands is used, more stock of these items will remain only with gold sellers - making their ill gotten gains even more lucrative.
Unless, that is, the goal is helping botters and gold sellers and screwing players over as much as possible, as that's exactly the result of this ham-handed butterfingers change.
These changes which do not hurt bots, only legit players, and even help the botters out in various ways need to stop.
OR
We can simply not buy from RMT and their horded supplies will rot.
RMT is only a problem because there are players buying from the RMTer's in the first place. If we as players just continue to play by the rules and report RMT when we see it, things will get better in time.
Do i really want the Ancient Elves motif? Damn right i do. But i refuse to pay an exorbitant price for it. The ridiculous 70k+ gold i heard just last night in zone chat OR the even more ridiculous notion that i pay some company real world cash for it.
Nah, i'll just go without until one of two things happen:
1) I get the motif as a loot item i find
2) The selling price from actual players comes back down to the realm of reason
Really it is as simple as that.
Lets be quite honest here , that is not how it works.
People WILL buy , even more if that is the only place selling.
Eventually i will give 100k to the RTM people if that is the only way to get the motif.
To hell if that will support bots/gold sellers...
I will trade ingame , and that will be 100% within the rules , even if i could guess the other guy is a gold seller."Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."
-Hanlon's razor4 -
Osi✭✭✭
Tried looking?... I highly doubt it, given the shear number of loot containers and that 90% of them contain something related to provisioning.ChairGraveyard wrote: »
That's what I said... And bots can't farm the rarer stones anyway, because, LIKE I SAID, you cant obtain them from container farming.ChairGraveyard wrote: »
WROOOOONNNNNNNNNNNNNGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!!!- Racial crafting stones can be purchased from merchants for a measly 5g a piece. The rarer stones cannot be obtained from loot sources but only by deconstructing drops. Again, no effect.
Only the basic stones can be bought.ChairGraveyard wrote: »
This isn't just about motifs, it's also about provisioning recipes and ingredients, which are now basically non-existant.- Motifs aren't contingent on your progress in the game, and I'm sure you can live without them, wait until you find them yourself, or find a guild member willing to give or sell one to you at a reasonable price.
Thanks for the PSA, though, Mr. RMT Seller (I must assume you are one, since the only people that benefit from this are RMT sellers, and thus are the only ones who should want this to continue).
Who is the RWTer here? You give no tangible response and just say I'm wrong. Seems like only a RWTer, like I don't know, perhaps someone like you, would have such a strong opinion and desire to have such a negligible thing changed back. A real player wouldn't even notice this change if they were playing legitimately.
1 -
ChairGraveyard✭✭✭✭Obviously. The point isn't to say that RMT sellers have recipes, go buy them. DURRR.
The point is that this change made it so that players who weren't inclined to do so will be enticed by the fact that these recipes are ONLY available now from RMT sellers (otherwise known as DEMAND).
Players that may not be as strong willed WILL be enticed by getting a recipe that 1 person is selling in game for 300,000g for $3-4. For some people, that's practically irresistible if they want that item.
Before this change, the price was not that high and they could have bought it legitimately from players for reasonable amounts of gold. This change increased the prices such that they are out of reach for most players, where $3-4 from RMT sellers (who have THOUSANDS) is not.
That's the freaking point. The changes have HELPED RMT sellers and screwed over players.
Obviously it needs to be changed/fixed so that there is NO DEMAND for RMT services. That's when no one will buy from them, not before. This change does the opposite and vastly increases the demand for their items, since they are the only ones who have them now.Edited by ChairGraveyard on May 8, 2014 7:36PM4 -
Squishy✭✭✭Or you could just be patient
You can survive without those items for now can't you? "In 2014, a possible bot was sent to coldharbour by a military GM for a crime she didn't commit. This argonian promptly escaped from a maximum security stockade to the Ebonheart underground. Today, still wanted by the developers she survive as soldiers of fortune. If you have a bot problem, if no one else can bite you, and if you can find her....maybe you can hire The SQUISHY."3 -
Squishy✭✭✭Actually, you only need to ban a few bots. The ones standing in the banks. They're the link to the game's economy "In 2014, a possible bot was sent to coldharbour by a military GM for a crime she didn't commit. This argonian promptly escaped from a maximum security stockade to the Ebonheart underground. Today, still wanted by the developers she survive as soldiers of fortune. If you have a bot problem, if no one else can bite you, and if you can find her....maybe you can hire The SQUISHY."1
-
Osi✭✭✭Drachenfier wrote: »
I saw over a dozen chests yesterday alone while I was exploring a new zone. Look harder. But I can't say on lockpicks; they were always common (never had less than a stack) but who knows. I believe there was a change in the patch notes so not unexpected.
Regardless, this isn't the "OMG it takes weeks to get a recipe now whereas it took seconds beforehand! I have to go buy it now for dat instant gratification lolz" armageddon OP keeps trying to play it off as. I get plenty of recipes and have seen multiple copies of each VR 5 recipe as I progressed into those areas over the last 3 days. Started collecting them for alts now, and have 3 extra copies of 2/6 recipes. Look harder and quit whining.
Edited by Osi on May 8, 2014 7:38PM1 -
Spiritreaver_ESO✭✭✭Nox_Aeterna wrote: »malikwalker_ESO wrote: »ChairGraveyard wrote: »Recently there was a stealth nerf to the drop rates of provisioning items, motifs, recipes, and even racial crafting stones from the clutter containers in the game.
Unfortunately, this change was done after botters and RMT sellers accumulated thousands of these items.
This change has just jumped demand for gold sellers and botters by a TON, and also multiplied the price of their ill gotten gains.
Worst idea ever - you can't nerf drop rates into the ground AFTER botters get thousands and thousands of now super rare items.
It's caused several negative effects already:
1) Botters have thousands of items that were worth marginal amounts before, but now are so rare that people are willing to shell out hundreds of thousands of gold.
2) Players now do not have enough supply of these items, meaning they all have the temptation to buy from the only supply left: RMT item sellers/botters.
3) The nerfed state of the loot will only exacerbate this problem over time as more players give up trying to get items, while botters continue to bot it and supplement their already huge stock.
4) As the items get more and more rare and the remaining stock in players' hands is used, more stock of these items will remain only with gold sellers - making their ill gotten gains even more lucrative.
Unless, that is, the goal is helping botters and gold sellers and screwing players over as much as possible, as that's exactly the result of this ham-handed butterfingers change.
These changes which do not hurt bots, only legit players, and even help the botters out in various ways need to stop.
OR
We can simply not buy from RMT and their horded supplies will rot.
RMT is only a problem because there are players buying from the RMTer's in the first place. If we as players just continue to play by the rules and report RMT when we see it, things will get better in time.
Do i really want the Ancient Elves motif? Damn right i do. But i refuse to pay an exorbitant price for it. The ridiculous 70k+ gold i heard just last night in zone chat OR the even more ridiculous notion that i pay some company real world cash for it.
Nah, i'll just go without until one of two things happen:
1) I get the motif as a loot item i find
2) The selling price from actual players comes back down to the realm of reason
Really it is as simple as that.
Lets be quite honest here , that is not how it works.
People WILL buy , even more if that is the only place selling.
Eventually i will give 100k to the RTM people if that is the only way to get the motif.
To hell if that will support bots/gold sellers...
I will trade ingame , and that will be 100% within the rules , even if i could guess the other guy is a gold seller.
Then you are part of the problem. And from the way you come off, will never be part of any solution. You don't just follow rules until they become inconvenient, especially when not abiding by rules will actively contribute to the game economy going straight to hell.
I'll personally be glad when ZOS takes off the kid-gloves and starts IP-banning the supporters of RMT as well as the RMT'ers themselves.
EDIT: Added line that got snipped when i originally posted.Edited by Spiritreaver_ESO on May 8, 2014 7:43PM3 -
Nox_Aeterna✭✭✭✭✭
✭Drachenfier wrote: »
I saw over a dozen chests yesterday alone while I was exploring a new zone. Look harder.
But I can't say on lockpicks; they were always common (never had less than a stack) but who knows.
Regardless, this isn't the "OMG it takes weeks to get a recipe now whereas it took seconds beforehand! I have to go buy it now for dat instant gratification lolz" armageddon OP keeps trying to play it off as. I get plenty of recipes and have seen multiple copies of each VR 5 recipe as I progressed into those areas over the last 3 days. Started collecting them for alts now, and have 3 extra copies of 2/6 recipes. Look harder and quit whining.
I have seen 0 motifs since th nerf? How many motifs did you see?Or you could just be patient
You can survive without those items for now can't you?
Uh , no.
Gold sellers/bots ... are zen problems , they dont get in my way at all.
So yeah , if down the line , i really want a motif , and the only way to get it , is trading with a RTM guy that asks for 100k , i will give the guy the 100k so he can support his gold seller/bots...
Still , for now im fine , i dont have 100k , i spent to much on bank upgrades and the horse , 32k on the next one..."Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."
-Hanlon's razor4 -
Daverios✭✭✭✭malikwalker_ESO wrote: »Nox_Aeterna wrote: »malikwalker_ESO wrote: »ChairGraveyard wrote: »Recently there was a stealth nerf to the drop rates of provisioning items, motifs, recipes, and even racial crafting stones from the clutter containers in the game.
Unfortunately, this change was done after botters and RMT sellers accumulated thousands of these items.
This change has just jumped demand for gold sellers and botters by a TON, and also multiplied the price of their ill gotten gains.
Worst idea ever - you can't nerf drop rates into the ground AFTER botters get thousands and thousands of now super rare items.
It's caused several negative effects already:
1) Botters have thousands of items that were worth marginal amounts before, but now are so rare that people are willing to shell out hundreds of thousands of gold.
2) Players now do not have enough supply of these items, meaning they all have the temptation to buy from the only supply left: RMT item sellers/botters.
3) The nerfed state of the loot will only exacerbate this problem over time as more players give up trying to get items, while botters continue to bot it and supplement their already huge stock.
4) As the items get more and more rare and the remaining stock in players' hands is used, more stock of these items will remain only with gold sellers - making their ill gotten gains even more lucrative.
Unless, that is, the goal is helping botters and gold sellers and screwing players over as much as possible, as that's exactly the result of this ham-handed butterfingers change.
These changes which do not hurt bots, only legit players, and even help the botters out in various ways need to stop.
OR
We can simply not buy from RMT and their horded supplies will rot.
RMT is only a problem because there are players buying from the RMTer's in the first place. If we as players just continue to play by the rules and report RMT when we see it, things will get better in time.
Do i really want the Ancient Elves motif? Damn right i do. But i refuse to pay an exorbitant price for it. The ridiculous 70k+ gold i heard just last night in zone chat OR the even more ridiculous notion that i pay some company real world cash for it.
Nah, i'll just go without until one of two things happen:
1) I get the motif as a loot item i find
2) The selling price from actual players comes back down to the realm of reason
Really it is as simple as that.
Lets be quite honest here , that is not how it works.
People WILL buy , even more if that is the only place selling.
Eventually i will give 100k to the RTM people if that is the only way to get the motif.
To hell if that will support bots/gold sellers...
I will trade ingame , and that will be 100% within the rules , even if i could guess the other guy is a gold seller.
Then you are part of the problem. And from the way you come off, will never be part of any solution. You don't just follow rules until they become inconvenient, especially when not abiding by rules will actively contribute to the game economy going straight to hell.
I'll personally be glad when ZOS takes off the kid-gloves and starts IP-banning the supporters of RMT as well as the RMT'ers themselves.
EDIT: Added line that got snipped when i originally posted.
I will GLADLY be part of the problem if the other choice is wasting hundreds of ours and being aggrevated.
Meh that said I would probably actually quit first but I get the allure 100% and zos just made 1000 times more enticing.
4 -
Spiritreaver_ESO✭✭✭Also @Nox_Aeterna
It is RMT. Real Money Trade(r)
Not RTM. Might wanna get that right if you plan on selfishly helping them gut the game down the road.2