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Need AI to moderate the forum

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Elowen_Starveil
Elowen_Starveil
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I wish ZOS would implement AI on the forum to do just one thing: prevent people from posting comments to the effect of "the developers do not care" or "they don't understand." Just grey out the submit button when that sentiment is expressed. Maybe relabel it with "start over!" As a full-time, full-stack developer in web applications and Windows applications for 30 years, this comment makes me recoil every time I see it. Trust me, there is no one who is more aware of whatever it is you are complaining about than the developers, and to suggest otherwise is denigrating. Comments here get actioned for the slightest of slights, and yet people are allowed to bash on the developers of the game they love enough to come here and argue about it. I just don't get it. The devs have an internal backlog of stuff to get through, including new expansions, new features, bug fixes, balance patches, and infrastructure upgrades and reorganizations. You can complain about your particular pet issue not getting enough attention, but there's only so much they can do at one time, and there's a whole bunch of stuff going on that you either can't see or will never notice. It's just unfair to make it personal the way a lot of people seem to do.
Edited by ZOS_Hadeostry on January 18, 2024 9:57PM
  • Kaelthorn_Nightbloom
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    Many aspects of the game are neglected, some of them intentional for business reasons. The devs also don't have the collective knowledge and experience of everyone who plays. There will be players with 20+ years of MMO experience who play 6-8 hours/day and understand how things could be designed better in ESO. Players should be able to post comments about "the developers don't care" or "they don't understand" even if you find it annoying. Because those comments are important and ZOS should pay attention to them.
    PC NA
  • jad11mumbler
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    dk_dunkirk wrote: »
    I wish ZOS would implement AI on the forum to do just one thing: prevent people from posting comments to the effect of "the developers do not care" or "they don't understand."

    A slippery slope towards not allowing anything but praise.

    Some of the negativity is, well, useless venting by players.
    Sometimes reasonable, often not.

    But negative feedback can be useful and shouldn't be blocked.
    Edited by jad11mumbler on January 16, 2024 1:27PM
    174 characters and counting over 13 accounts.

    120 writ certified. 73 at CP rank.
  • Syldras
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    AI for a simple forum? When normally a phrase filter would be enough? If one would find this to be a good idea. I don't, as these kind of filters - I've seen it on other forums - normally react too sensitive, and depending on how many words are filtered, make discussions almost impossible. I once tried to comment on an article on a news website, nothing controversial even, but no matter, how I reworded my text, I always got a message "Content violating the TOS detected, posting not sent". After the 5th or 6th attempt, I gave up, tired of wasting my time. And I wasn't the only person, the number of comments dropped severely after that filter was activated.

    Another, and even more important, reason I object is that everyone should free to express their opinion, no matter how much I agree or disagree with it, as long as it's expressived in a civil matter. ZOS seems to be okay with it, otherwise these postings would already be removed.
    @Syldras | PC | EU
    The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
    Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
    Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
    Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire
    Soris Rethandus, a Sleeper not yet awake
  • Trier_Sero
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    There is already overabundance of censorship on this forum, don't need anymore.

    Plus, negative feedback, if constructive, is always a good thing.
    Devs aren't some kind of superior beings that know better than everybody else.
  • Panderbander
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    Trier_Sero wrote: »
    There is already overabundance of censorship on this forum, don't need anymore.

    Plus, negative feedback, if constructive, is always a good thing.
    Devs aren't some kind of superior beings that know better than everybody else.

    [snip]
    Edit for context: the above snipped content was a cheeky response to the insinuation that there is an overabundance of censorship.

    For real though, echo chambers where everyone just pats each other on the back don't help anyone involved. If someone is upset at a game there's usually a reason for it.

    [edited for trolling]
    Edited by Panderbander on January 16, 2024 3:25PM
    Leader of Lycan Syndicate, PC NA's tri-faction werewolf guild.~~~Played since the beta, got the monkey.~~~"The blood of the pack is now yours. They are your only family, your only allegiance!"
  • Syldras
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    If I think more about it, it's actually kind of funny. OP complains about other forum users telling ZOS what to do (with the game), but at the same time tells ZOS what to do (with the forum) - as if ZOS wouldn't know for themselves what they should allow in their own forum or not.
    @Syldras | PC | EU
    The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
    Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
    Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
    Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire
    Soris Rethandus, a Sleeper not yet awake
  • Elsonso
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    SkaraMinoc wrote: »
    Many aspects of the game are neglected, some of them intentional for business reasons. The devs also don't have the collective knowledge and experience of everyone who plays. There will be players with 20+ years of MMO experience who play 6-8 hours/day and understand how things could be designed better in ESO. Players should be able to post comments about "the developers don't care" or "they don't understand" even if you find it annoying. Because those comments are important and ZOS should pay attention to them.

    I would suggest that a person who has been playing MMOs for 6 to 8 hours per day may not represent the players who they need to attract and retain as effectively.

    We don't need AI moderators to block people from writing comments. 😃
    Edited by Elsonso on January 16, 2024 1:47PM
    XBox EU/NA:@ElsonsoJannus
    PC NA/EU: @Elsonso
    PSN NA/EU: @ElsonsoJannus
    Total in-game hours: 11321
    X/Twitter: ElsonsoJannus
  • TaSheen
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    You're not going to get AI for the forum mod setup unless Vanilla codes the ability in. And since this forum software isn't anywhere close to as good as various others available, I don't see that happening.
    ______________________________________________________

    "But even in books, the heroes make mistakes, and there isn't always a happy ending." Mercedes Lackey, Into the West

    PC NA, PC EU (non steam)- four accounts, many alts....
  • Jammy420
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    dk_dunkirk wrote: »
    I wish ZOS would implement AI on the forum to do just one thing: prevent people from posting comments to the effect of "the developers do not care" or "they don't understand." Just grey out the submit button when that sentiment is expressed. Maybe relabel it with "start over!" As a full-time, full-stack developer in web applications and Windows applications for 30 years, this comment makes me recoil every time I see it. Trust me, there is no one who is more aware of whatever it is you are complaining about than the developers, and to suggest otherwise is denigrating. Comments here get actioned for the slightest of slights, and yet people are allowed to bash on the developers of the game they love enough to come here and argue about it. I just don't get it. The devs have an internal backlog of stuff to get through, including new expansions, new features, bug fixes, balance patches, and infrastructure upgrades and reorganizations. You can complain about your particular pet issue not getting enough attention, but there's only so much they can do at one time, and there's a whole bunch of stuff going on that you either can't see or will never notice. It's just unfair to make it personal the way a lot of people seem to do.

    So you want censorship via AI, just because you do not want to see people being upset at bad decisions and blunders? Oof
  • Pixiepumpkin
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    1st and foremost we are customers. We have a right to give praise and criticism.

    "Class identity isn’t just about power or efficiency. It’s about symbolic clarity, mechanical cohesion, and a shared visual and tactical language between players." - sans-culottes
  • JanTanhide
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    dk_dunkirk wrote: »
    I wish ZOS would implement AI on the forum to do just one thing: prevent people from posting comments to the effect of "the developers do not care" or "they don't understand." Just grey out the submit button when that sentiment is expressed. Maybe relabel it with "start over!" As a full-time, full-stack developer in web applications and Windows applications for 30 years, this comment makes me recoil every time I see it. Trust me, there is no one who is more aware of whatever it is you are complaining about than the developers, and to suggest otherwise is denigrating. Comments here get actioned for the slightest of slights, and yet people are allowed to bash on the developers of the game they love enough to come here and argue about it. I just don't get it. The devs have an internal backlog of stuff to get through, including new expansions, new features, bug fixes, balance patches, and infrastructure upgrades and reorganizations. You can complain about your particular pet issue not getting enough attention, but there's only so much they can do at one time, and there's a whole bunch of stuff going on that you either can't see or will never notice. It's just unfair to make it personal the way a lot of people seem to do.

    There is already massive censorship. What's next, getting approval before posting a comment by a "Moderator"?
  • Kaelthorn_Nightbloom
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    Elsonso wrote: »
    SkaraMinoc wrote: »
    Many aspects of the game are neglected, some of them intentional for business reasons. The devs also don't have the collective knowledge and experience of everyone who plays. There will be players with 20+ years of MMO experience who play 6-8 hours/day and understand how things could be designed better in ESO. Players should be able to post comments about "the developers don't care" or "they don't understand" even if you find it annoying. Because those comments are important and ZOS should pay attention to them.

    I would suggest that a person who has been playing MMOs for 6 to 8 hours per day may not represent the players who they need to attract and retain as effectively.

    There's some truth to this. Getting feedback from new players or someone that might not play as much is also important.

    Edited by Kaelthorn_Nightbloom on January 16, 2024 2:33PM
    PC NA
  • Vulkunne
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    dk_dunkirk wrote: »
    I wish ZOS would implement AI on the forum to do just one thing: prevent people from posting comments to the effect of "the developers do not care" or "they don't understand." Just grey out the submit button when that sentiment is expressed. Maybe relabel it with "start over!" As a full-time, full-stack developer in web applications and Windows applications for 30 years, this comment makes me recoil every time I see it. Trust me, there is no one who is more aware of whatever it is you are complaining about than the developers, and to suggest otherwise is denigrating. Comments here get actioned for the slightest of slights, and yet people are allowed to bash on the developers of the game they love enough to come here and argue about it. I just don't get it. The devs have an internal backlog of stuff to get through, including new expansions, new features, bug fixes, balance patches, and infrastructure upgrades and reorganizations. You can complain about your particular pet issue not getting enough attention, but there's only so much they can do at one time, and there's a whole bunch of stuff going on that you either can't see or will never notice. It's just unfair to make it personal the way a lot of people seem to do.

    Right so you as a developer are part of the cycle however a developer role is perhaps not best suited to collect information straight from the customer. Obviously, developers cannot suit everyone, not at all. However, there's a difference between that fact and between obstructing the customer from sharing their input as their role requires. The developer cannot accommodate every feature, the customer can share their opinion with this understanding.

    The customer has a role, the developer has a role. These cannot be completely mutually exclusive because you as the developer are working on behalf of what the customer (and your stakeholders) are requesting. Otherwise, who else are you developing the product for?
    Edited by Vulkunne on January 16, 2024 3:21PM
    “You speak of justice? Of cowardice? I will show you the justice of the grave and the true meaning of fear.”
  • Four_Fingers
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    This post would be one of the first AI moderated because it alludes the human moderators don't do enough.
    The mods do an adequate job and better job because they can apply human empathy to judgements.
  • SaffronCitrusflower
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    dk_dunkirk wrote: »
    I wish ZOS would implement AI on the forum to do just one thing: prevent people from posting comments to the effect of "the developers do not care" or "they don't understand." Just grey out the submit button when that sentiment is expressed. Maybe relabel it with "start over!" As a full-time, full-stack developer in web applications and Windows applications for 30 years, this comment makes me recoil every time I see it. Trust me, there is no one who is more aware of whatever it is you are complaining about than the developers, and to suggest otherwise is denigrating. Comments here get actioned for the slightest of slights, and yet people are allowed to bash on the developers of the game they love enough to come here and argue about it. I just don't get it. The devs have an internal backlog of stuff to get through, including new expansions, new features, bug fixes, balance patches, and infrastructure upgrades and reorganizations. You can complain about your particular pet issue not getting enough attention, but there's only so much they can do at one time, and there's a whole bunch of stuff going on that you either can't see or will never notice. It's just unfair to make it personal the way a lot of people seem to do.

    Do you really want to silence anyone and everyone who says they're unhappy about something?
  • Panderbander
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    dk_dunkirk wrote: »
    I wish ZOS would implement AI on the forum to do just one thing: prevent people from posting comments to the effect of "the developers do not care" or "they don't understand." Just grey out the submit button when that sentiment is expressed. Maybe relabel it with "start over!" As a full-time, full-stack developer in web applications and Windows applications for 30 years, this comment makes me recoil every time I see it. Trust me, there is no one who is more aware of whatever it is you are complaining about than the developers, and to suggest otherwise is denigrating. Comments here get actioned for the slightest of slights, and yet people are allowed to bash on the developers of the game they love enough to come here and argue about it. I just don't get it. The devs have an internal backlog of stuff to get through, including new expansions, new features, bug fixes, balance patches, and infrastructure upgrades and reorganizations. You can complain about your particular pet issue not getting enough attention, but there's only so much they can do at one time, and there's a whole bunch of stuff going on that you either can't see or will never notice. It's just unfair to make it personal the way a lot of people seem to do.

    Hey don't worry, the mods are absolutely on top of this!
    Panderbander wrote: »
    Trier_Sero wrote: »
    There is already overabundance of censorship on this forum, don't need anymore.

    Plus, negative feedback, if constructive, is always a good thing.
    Devs aren't some kind of superior beings that know better than everybody else.

    [snip]
    Edit for context: the above snipped content was a cheeky response to the insinuation that there is an overabundance of censorship.

    For real though, echo chambers where everyone just pats each other on the back don't help anyone involved. If someone is upset at a game there's usually a reason for it.

    [edited for trolling]

    Leader of Lycan Syndicate, PC NA's tri-faction werewolf guild.~~~Played since the beta, got the monkey.~~~"The blood of the pack is now yours. They are your only family, your only allegiance!"
  • React
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    Someone must have missed the "wah wah wah, if you don't like it go pvp somewhere else" fiasco...

    I wonder what your opinion of the history of PVP performance in this game is. Do you think the studio has adequately addressed performance concerns, and made a genuine effort to alleviate them? Do you think the studio communicates adequately about PVP?
    @ReactSlower - PC/NA - 2000+ CP
    React Faster - XB/NA - 1500+ CP
    Content
    Twitch.tv/reactfaster
    Youtube.com/@ReactFaster
  • derkaiserliche
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    thats exactly what an undercover developer would say
  • ZOS_Kevin
    ZOS_Kevin
    Community Manager
    Two things on this.

    1. AI implementation would require either Vanilla to build in functionality or another software that works with Vanilla to build in the webhooks.
    2. Either way, personally at this point in time, we do not feel the need to have AI moderation to address thread content. We have guidelines and moderate accordingly. If folks are posting about things that think we are missing, we welcome that feedback as long as it is constructive. We take that feedback to make sure the dev team knows where we can improve and strive for that improvement.
    Community Manager for ZeniMax Online Studio and Elder Scrolls OnlineDev Tracker | Service Alerts | ESO Twitter
    Staff Post
  • Beilin_Balreis_Colcan
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    ZOS_Kevin wrote: »
    Two things on this.

    1. AI implementation would require either Vanilla to build in functionality or another software that works with Vanilla to build in the webhooks.
    2. Either way, personally at this point in time, we do not feel the need to have AI moderation to address thread content. We have guidelines and moderate accordingly. If folks are posting about things that think we are missing, we welcome that feedback as long as it is constructive. We take that feedback to make sure the dev team knows where we can improve and strive for that improvement.
    Speaking of feedback: many months ago, @ZOS_Kevin , I tried to submit some feedback about the forum rules. One of the pinned threads in the 'General Discussion' section lists the forum rules, and the first paragraph is
    Below is a brief explanation of our community rules and expectations for specific topics and situations. If you have any questions about our Community Code of Conduct, please email The Elder Scrolls Online Team at community@elderscrollsonline.com.
    So I sent a very politely worded email to that address with a question about the forum rules. Months later, after receiving no reply, I sent a follow-up email requesting a reply. I never got that reply. So is that email address actually used by anybody?
    PC(Steam) / EU / play from Melbourne, Australia / avg ping 390
  • gariondavey
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    React wrote: »
    Someone must have missed the "wah wah wah, if you don't like it go pvp somewhere else" fiasco...

    I wonder what your opinion of the history of PVP performance in this game is. Do you think the studio has adequately addressed performance concerns, and made a genuine effort to alleviate them? Do you think the studio communicates adequately about PVP?

    x100000000
    PC NA @gariondavey, BG, IC & Cyrodiil Focused Since October 2017 Stamplar (main), Magplar, Magsorc, Stamsorc, StamDK, MagDK, Stamblade, Magblade, Magden, Stamden
  • vibeborn
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    I once got a video of my cat purring while sleeping flagged as "nsfw" by Facebook's AI-"moderator" My almost 10-year old cat sleeping, is apparantly too offensive(?)
    AI is honestly not a good solution when it comes to moderating.
  • Nihilr
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    Also this thread makes me mad with the misuse of the term AI. It's machine learning. AI does not exist yet still. Everything that is hyped in tech is all various forms of "machine learning." 🤦🏻‍♀️

    edit TL;DR: OP wants "text filters" with some sort of recognition of text strings to censor any negative feedback.
    Edited by Nihilr on January 16, 2024 9:08PM
  • Freelancer_ESO
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    dk_dunkirk wrote: »
    I wish ZOS would implement AI on the forum to do just one thing: prevent people from posting comments to the effect of "the developers do not care" or "they don't understand." Just grey out the submit button when that sentiment is expressed. Maybe relabel it with "start over!" As a full-time, full-stack developer in web applications and Windows applications for 30 years, this comment makes me recoil every time I see it. Trust me, there is no one who is more aware of whatever it is you are complaining about than the developers, and to suggest otherwise is denigrating. Comments here get actioned for the slightest of slights, and yet people are allowed to bash on the developers of the game they love enough to come here and argue about it. I just don't get it. The devs have an internal backlog of stuff to get through, including new expansions, new features, bug fixes, balance patches, and infrastructure upgrades and reorganizations. You can complain about your particular pet issue not getting enough attention, but there's only so much they can do at one time, and there's a whole bunch of stuff going on that you either can't see or will never notice. It's just unfair to make it personal the way a lot of people seem to do.

    As a user of various applications for around three decades let me assure you that we users are fully capable of using applications in ways that you do not expect or intend. If you think that you can fully understand us or anticipate us, it's likely you've fallen out of touch with us significantly. It also doesn't really go over well with users when you tell us that you know whatever it is we are complaining about better than we do.
  • HarroHerro
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  • Amottica
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    I do not think Zenimax takes issue with threads or comments saying Zenimax does not care or does not understand as long as it does not include bashing. If the thread provides feedback that is constructive vs just a rant it is much more likely to get noticed.

  • Destai
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    ZOS_Kevin wrote: »
    Either way, personally at this point in time, we do not feel the need to have AI moderation to address thread content. We have guidelines and moderate accordingly. If folks are posting about things that think we are missing, we welcome that feedback as long as it is constructive. We take that feedback to make sure the dev team knows where we can improve and strive for that improvement.

    Quite happy to see you not supporting this and seemingly being open to feedback. There's already been a history of over-moderation, removing the human component from it entirely makes the forums even more unwelcoming.

    Speaking of feedback, I want to echo what @vsrs_au described. Responsiveness needs improvement. Outside of a few hot topics and initial bug reports, I've generally not gotten a response when I've DMed you. On specific moderation questions or requests, I've never gotten a response from you or the moderators. And even on some bug reports, when I ask for follow up, I don't receive a response. So hopefully that's something you can help improve this coming year.
  • ZOS_Kevin
    ZOS_Kevin
    Community Manager
    vsrs_au wrote: »
    Speaking of feedback: many months ago, @ZOS_Kevin , I tried to submit some feedback about the forum rules. One of the pinned threads in the 'General Discussion' section lists the forum rules, and the first paragraph is
    Below is a brief explanation of our community rules and expectations for specific topics and situations. If you have any questions about our Community Code of Conduct, please email The Elder Scrolls Online Team at community@elderscrollsonline.com.
    So I sent a very politely worded email to that address with a question about the forum rules. Months later, after receiving no reply, I sent a follow-up email requesting a reply. I never got that reply. So is that email address actually used by anybody?

    That email is used by us on the community team. But sometimes it breaks connection with our email accounts. So we'll check on that. Sorry about that!

    Community Manager for ZeniMax Online Studio and Elder Scrolls OnlineDev Tracker | Service Alerts | ESO Twitter
    Staff Post
  • NeuroticPixels
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    Panderbander wrote: »
    [snip]
    Edit for context: the above snipped content was a cheeky response to the insinuation that there is an overabundance of censorship.

    Wait… did the moderator add that “edit for context”? Because if so, that’s amazing. Seriously. I want more of this. Short lil tidbits somewhat explaining why things got snipped/edited/removed. ❤️
    Check out the ReShade I made: Crispy Sharpness
  • TaSheen
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    NeuroticPixels wrote: »
    Panderbander wrote: »
    [snip]
    Edit for context: the above snipped content was a cheeky response to the insinuation that there is an overabundance of censorship.

    Wait… did the moderator add that “edit for context”? Because if so, that’s amazing. Seriously. I want more of this. Short lil tidbits somewhat explaining why things got snipped/edited/removed. ❤️

    The only edit tag is from Panderbander. I don't think it was a mod.
    ______________________________________________________

    "But even in books, the heroes make mistakes, and there isn't always a happy ending." Mercedes Lackey, Into the West

    PC NA, PC EU (non steam)- four accounts, many alts....
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