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People queuing as healers but aren't.
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Silowyi✭✭✭What you queue up for dungeons is what class you should be willing to take on while you are in that dungeon. Simple as that. And yes, I could see how it would be annoying when someone does this intentionally to mess with people. But... are we sure it wasn't just someone crappy at healing?
@KerinKor[...]the total lack of a single spot heal is laughable.
Uhm... Templar's Rushed Ceremony
Yup rushed ceremony morphed into breath of life.0 -
DakotaCoty✭✭✭
You completely missed what I wrote...I'm sorry your dungeon run went poorly, just ask next time and if the "healer" isn't one, boot them and grab another if that's what you want... it's your party, you're allowed to set your party the way you like.
When people go inside a dungeon via DF (Dungeon Finder) the leadership is passed to a random person, unfortunately, it was the people that we wanted to kick or everyone else left because they weren't an actual healer.0 -
Silowyi✭✭✭I'm sorry I missed that, but you still have an option, you drop group, reform with the other 2 people and get a new healer.0
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Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭The trinity is alive and well in this game. Problem is, a lot of people playing this game have no experience with MMOs and don't quite understand the roles yet.4 -
Allyah✭✭✭What you queue up for dungeons is what class you should be willing to take on while you are in that dungeon. Simple as that. And yes, I could see how it would be annoying when someone does this intentionally to mess with people. But... are we sure it wasn't just someone crappy at healing?
@KerinKor[...]the total lack of a single spot heal is laughable.
Uhm... Templar's Rushed Ceremony
Yup rushed ceremony morphed into breath of life.
Or ya know... Honor the Dead... that gives you most of the mana it cost to cast back to you if you heal someone under 50% health... Seems like a pretty good spot heal to me.0 -
Vodkaphile✭✭✭Please define what a 'healer' is in a game without any real healers and everyone has some self-heal ability?
This isn't a 'trinity' game, the usual rules don't apply. No class in ESO has anything remotely like a real 'healing' capability .. the total lack of a single spot heal is laughable.
Is this real life? Do you even play the game?
The lack of a single spot heal is refreshing, unless you think spamming one button until your blue bar turns to black is totally fun and immersing game play.
A "real healer" is someone who enters a dungeon with the intent of healing the group. In veteran content, you will die in seconds without a real healer, and coincidentally, once in veteran content you might actually figure out what a real healer is and not have to post ridiculous rabble here.
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Allyah✭✭✭*Sighs.*
@Vodkaphile
Except there is a single spot heal. See Honor the Dead.
http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Honor_The_Dead
You too @Silowyi
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reagen_lionel✭✭✭✭You dont really need a dedicated healer, if everyone or a couple of people have some off healing abilities, just a little. you can get through fine.
Same with tanking, not so much tanking as so much as being able to do some good crowd control on monsters.
Bosses can be tricky however, for they require some good tactics to counter thier abilities, dodges, blocks, interrupts and positioning.
If potions healed just a bit more than the level they have, doing dungeons without so much relying on healing would be more plausible. The healing done by potions is not really high enough. (often about only 15-20% HP) (though I know the potions healed like crap in skyrim and oblivion too. But there were significantly stronger ones that healed more)Edited by reagen_lionel on May 8, 2014 3:04AM2 -
flintstone✭✭✭I'm not a healer but my second weapon is a restro staff (level 49 right now)........I do try to heal when I go in a dungeon if needed, and I do check DPS/Healer when looking for a group run of any Dungen.
My other skill is bow and geared for magic and bow damage.0 -
GreySix✭✭✭✭✭
✭I'm not a healer, but I did sleep at a Holiday Inn Express.Crotchety Old Man Guild
"Hey you, get off my lawn!"7 -
Allyah✭✭✭reagen_lionel wrote: »You dont really need a dedicated healer, if everyone or a couple of people have some off healing abilities, just a little. you can get through fine.
Same with tanking, not so much tanking as so much as being able to do some good crowd control on monsters.
Bosses can be tricky however, for they require some good tactics to counter thier abilities, dodges, blocks, interrupts and positioning.
If potions healed just a bit more than the level they have, doing dungeons without so much relying on healing would be more plausible. The healing done by potions is not really high enough. (often about only 15-20% HP) (though I know the potions healed like crap in skyrim and oblivion too. But there were significantly stronger ones that healed more)
It's true that you don't need a dedicated healer, but if someone is advertising themselves as a healer for a dungeon, they really need to be healing if healing is required.
I'm glad that potions don't recover much. Keeps them as something used for just a momentary "oh, ****" moment instead of using them in a way to offset someone being completely stupid while they are playing.1 -
Arsenic_Touch wrote: »Please define what a 'healer' is in a game without any real healers and everyone has some self-heal ability?
This isn't a 'trinity' game, the usual rules don't apply. No class in ESO has anything remotely like a real 'healing' capability .. the total lack of a single spot heal is laughable.
Templar's have an entire skill line devoted to nothing but healing. Combine that with a resto staff and you pretty much have the solid healer in this game.
So to say no class has anything remotely like real healing capability is disingenuous. The only thing is you can't heal specific people, that's the only argument to be had.
You have only 6 active skill slots and with appropriate morphing any class with a Resto staff can fulfill any aspect of the healing role. Templars have more options to choose from but the actual number of skills and their functional coverage that they can actively use in combat remains the same as that of any other class with Resto Staff skills slotted.
Your core point though I agree with, the healer role is definitely in the game and fully realisable.
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Silowyi✭✭✭*Sighs.*
@Vodkaphile
Except there is a single spot heal. See Honor the Dead.
http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Honor_The_Dead
You too @Silowyi
It's not that I wasn't aware of the spell, but if they are below 50% I'm going to hit them with something more powerful... I don't really find use for Honor the Dead as I have better tools in my arsenal... that said, you're right, it does exist.0 -
Allyah✭✭✭
With resto staff passives, it can be a pretty large amount healed (restoration expert 2 and restoration master 2). If I heal someone under 30% health, I'm healing them for about 6 hundred and something (and keep in mind it's instant). It's incredibly useful in tight situations when heal over time spells aren't working quickly enough. I've seen people saying that it's a weak skill but I just don't know. Seems to work for me well. But I digress....*Sighs.*
@Vodkaphile
Except there is a single spot heal. See Honor the Dead.
http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Honor_The_Dead
You too @Silowyi
It's not that I wasn't aware of the spell, but if they are below 50% I'm going to hit them with something more powerful... I don't really find use for Honor the Dead as I have better tools in my arsenal... that said, you're right, it does exist.
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Gunavar✭✭✭Or ya know... Honor the Dead... that gives you most of the mana it cost to cast back to you if you heal someone under 50% health... Seems like a pretty good spot heal to me.
Honor the dead only gives mana back if they are under 50% hp after it's done healing them which makes it pretty useless. Go for Breath of Life.1 -
Audigy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I think that saying "someone queued as Healer and isn't one" doesn't reveal the full story.
How do you mean he or she wasn't a Healer? Because he didn't heal good enough or because he didn't heal in a spec that you felt was required or did he just not use healing spells at all?
I queue in dungeons as Tank and DPS, because I can perform both roles. That said, I am specced as a Tank if you want to call it like that. However, I often had situations where we were two tanks in the group so one of us had to go DPS, right?
The game design isn't so much about min maxing, so if you work together you will get through.
If someone queue´s as Tank or Healer and then doesn't use any of the required spells, then well that's not nice indeed, but this also happens at wow
I often had 2 handed Pala´s telling me that they will tank, not even using the righteous fury ability ^^
In the end I think its a pity that people always want to kick others, just because they don't like their attitude towards the game. If you have 4 people in the group, I am sure you will be able to get through the dungeon.
I was in a group few days ago, we had me tanking and I got my butt kicked but we never gave up Edited by Audigy on May 8, 2014 5:32AM3 -
Traisa✭✭✭I'm a true healer! I have 4/5 Restoring Light abilities (morphed) + the Ultimate, and 2/5 Resto staff abilities (morphed). I listed my role as a Healer for finding groups. So, some of us are paying attention and changing our groups to the appropriate one.
PS: I have Breath of Life
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Lovely✭✭✭People keep saying this and it really isn't true. The content is designed around having a trinity
People keep saying it because it is true. The roles do not have a proper tools to do their roles effectively. Your best bet is to have dpses and burn things down, especially trash where nothing is as effective as sorcerers with crit surge and impulse.0 -
Since any class can fill any role, skill anything cept others class skills and have any gear there is no way they can code into the lfg tool to make sure you actually can heal like it is in some other mmo games.
Tough luck with the trolls i guess.0 -
Dramonicous✭✭I had a guy yesterday who signed up as a super hybrid (all 3 roles).
He failed to deliver on every single role.
And after first wipe on lich boss in veteran wayrest I noticed his HP... it was 1.5k
My healing on the other hand is incredible and was able to carry this joke tank that far.
My only advice is to put them on ignore list so you dont forget who they are.4 -
DakotaCoty✭✭✭Dramonicous wrote: »I had a guy yesterday who signed up as a super hybrid (all 3 roles).
He failed to deliver on every single role.
And after first wipe on lich boss in veteran wayrest I noticed his HP... it was 1.5k
My healing on the other hand is incredible and was able to carry this joke tank that far.
I'm happy that I'm not the only person that's experienced this issue. It's highly annoying at late night trying to find a successful group and intentional trolls aren't helping
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Dev✭✭✭✭some mobs can hit for 800+ so the heals are a bit lower then what I expect from other MMOs for HP in the 2.5k+ range. I normally expect a 1k - 1200 level heal
Still it is probably the closest to a normal healer.
@VR1 temp/resto build
HP
Breath of Life IV: 579hp, 290 for 2 secondary pt members
Lingering ritual: 464 10meter aoe + 108 after 8 seconds
healing springs: 100 hp per second, 3 seconds & I get 22mp per ally healed
Buff
Blessing of restoration: 270hp + 750 phy/magic defense
radiant aura: 80% HP/Stamina regen buff
Mutagen: 770 regen over 20 sec, with a instant heal for 280 if target drops <20%
dispel negative buff
Cleansing ritual: synergy heal for 280 and remove all debuffs on you
ult:
rite of passage iv:194 every .5 for 8 seconds
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Phantax✭✭✭✭✭
✭DakotaCoty wrote: »
So why do the roles exist then? Why not be undefined like GW2.the total lack of a single spot heal is laughable.Are you telling me there's actually people in an MMO that pretend to be someone they aren't?
Wow, that's a first ...
I'm sure if you were faced with it, you'd be slightly annoyed too.
Because it's not undefined. This game does have tanking and healing. But the roles are not strict. There are a lot of shades of grey here.
On one end, you have WOW. In WOW, certain specs tank, certain specs DPS, and certain specs heal. If you pick tank spec, you tank and nothing else. If you pick DPS, you DPS and nothing else. If you pick heal, you heal and nothing else.
On the extreme opposite end, you have GW2, where there are no roles and "everyone can do everything".
ESO is somewhere in the middle. It is possible to tank and heal in this game, but there are no dedicated "tanks" and "healers.
Actually Rift tried to do away with the trilogy way before GW2. And it failed... badly.
ESO has made things easier but there are still classes that are much better suited to those key rolesHigh Elf Sorcerer VR12 - Destro / Resto Staff
I'm a werewolf. If you vamps don't like it.... Bite me !
We're not retreating... we're advancing in a different direction !0 -
Merlin13KAGL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I run as a Healer/DPS. I do not advertise as a tank.
Group Finder does default roles to DPS until you go in and change your preferred.
That being said, there is a distinction between having a build (Tank/Healer/DPS) and being able to adquately perform the role of that build.
Personally, I ask the group leader which role they wish...strictly healer, DPS, or combo...and if the alternate healer is having trouble keeping up, I'll throw in the occasional assist heal. I especially do this if the group members I am with are lower level than I am.
I understand your frustration. There is a phenomenal difference between having the abilities (your character build) and the execution.
Late night, it's often easier to put the request out in the chat window than to let GF do the work for you. I'd be a little leary too having the Group Leader as the healer requesting the other as support...it's usually the other way around.
Doesn't mean it's not possible, just less likely.
When you find a good group, or good member of specific roles (especially those that play the same time frame as you), don't forget to Add them to your friends list w/ a note.
I've more than once, stopped what I was doing to zip over and assist.
One other minor suggestion that might help before you enter the dungeon with said 'Healer...' Make them prove they at least have the spell skills you're looking for... You can see the spell effect before starting and a few seconds for them to regain mana back to full is so much better than finding out mid-dungeon that you really have a guy that knew a guy that read a book once about healing/tanking/dps...
Happy adventuring.
(Give me a shout online (Daggerfall, currently) and I'll be happy to assist!)Just because you don't like the way something is doesn't necessarily make it wrong...
Earn it.
IRL'ing for a while for assorted reasons, in forum, and in game.I am neither warm, nor fuzzy...
Probably has checkbox on Customer Service profile that say High Aggro, 99% immunity to BS1 -
YourNameHere✭✭✭DakotaCoty wrote: »But... are we sure it wasn't just someone crappy at healing?
The first person in my group was a DK, he was using dual build and said to us "I don't give a *** I just wanted fast queues". At that point we discussed kicking him, only to realise he had group leader.
The second event was a Nightblade level 32, dual wielding... No healing to be seen, when he left, everyone else left because we had no healer.
This is the problem when you set up your LFG for 1 healer, 1 tank, and 2 DPS.
People will bypass it by switching their role so they can get into a group faster to get a dungeon done.
I can tell you as a DPS, I've waited nearly an hour just to do Spindleclutch with no takers.
Really crappy LFG system to use getting a dungeon done.NA Megaserver / RPer
Alinyssa Gaethar - AD || Raahni-do - AD || Wind-In-Tree's-Shadow - DC0 -
Soloeus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Or, someone picks up a resto staff, takes the first skill and "heals" for what bare minimum they can. They are a "healer" but they have no potency.
This is annoying, very annoying.
Within; Without.0 -
DakotaCoty✭✭✭Or, someone picks up a resto staff, takes the first skill and "heals" for what bare minimum they can. They are a "healer" but they have no potency.
This is annoying, very annoying.
Or they queue as a healer and don't use anything regarding to healer and troll people just because they want faster queue times, which was the original issue of this topic. 0 -
NextGame✭✭you shouldn't be able to queue as either healer or tank unless you have skill points invested in a few skills suited for that role.
What do these people think they are going to achieve by joining a group without a healer? Are they stupid? It would just end up being wipe after wipe after wipe.0 -
ElliottXO✭✭✭✭✭Please define what a 'healer' is in a game without any real healers and everyone has some self-heal ability?
This isn't a 'trinity' game, the usual rules don't apply. No class in ESO has anything remotely like a real 'healing' capability .. the total lack of a single spot heal is laughable.
Ummm ZOS said this is a trinity game. The LFG tool is a trinity system. Weapon choice divides into trinity roles. You are just confused because you are linking classes to the trinity young padawan, but it's the weapon choice that decides which role in the trinity you take.
A healer is somebody with a restoration staff and 2-3 heals. Anyone else queueing as healer is a troll or an idiot, as only resto staff provides sustainable heals and efficient magicka return.
The class skills are just supplements.Edited by ElliottXO on May 9, 2014 6:34AM2 -
PharmaChief✭✭✭DakotaCoty wrote: »This is becoming an increasing issue...
Today I've had 2 people come in, assuming they are actual healers when in fact they are not. Isn't there anything to do about this as me and my friend have had to boycott our dungeon groups because they are the leader?..
I don't know if it happens to anyone else, but it's extremely annoying to face this issue at say, midnight-2am when no one is online and some troll queues for healer and they aren't one.
/Sigh
They give doctor diplomas to just about anyone these days...0