Companion Want: Morally Dark

Saccopharynx · November 2023

One thing I've noticed with the Companions we've gotten so far is they're all pretty much the same when it comes to morality. They're pushing pretty solidly "good" to me, even in the cases of the ones who are more gray (Sharp doesn't like you stealing from specific people for example). I would really like to see an actual true gray to black companion for once.

My Companion Wish, to be specific, would be a male necromancer high elf who is frankly an ***. Maybe he's ex-worm cult to boot, but I want him to be the exact opposite of the other companions.

I want his report to go up when you steal and kill with no exceptions to who or what. Blade of Woe? Loves that. Maybe he's pissed at Molag Bal for some reason so killing daedra of any sort makes his raport go up, too. Doing necromancy in the city? Big plus. Using your Fighter's Guild intimidation during a quest? Loves it. Enchanting nodes and enchanting gear could also be positive. Mean rude mean man otherwise.

Things he hates? Giving money to needy people. Doing dailies in Summerset (other high elves are even beneath him). I don't know what else, but I think the point has been made.

Sometimes I'm playing on a character whose supposed to be Awful and I want an equally Awful companion. That's all

jtm1018 · November 2023

Dark brotherhood companion, preferably a high elf. Snooty assasin attitude, high class high society assasins.

spartaxoxo · November 2023

Ember is pretty morally gray. She cheers on death, talks about her love of stealing, etc. She is so cheerful about it, it's pretty easy to forget that her enthusiasm is pretty messed up when you think about it.

I would agree though, we need a companion that likes murder.

Bobargus · November 2023

I want a Dark Brotherhood companion as well.

phaneub17_ESO · November 2023

How would you feel about a companion who randomly attacks and kills citizens, unprovoked? It could be a 5% chance reaction, you're out in a town and suddenly they start killing people regardless if you have prevent attack innocent on. The bounty and heat will still be applied to you.

Bobargus · November 2023

phaneub17_ESO wrote: »

How would you feel about a companion who randomly attacks and kills citizens, unprovoked? It could be a 5% chance reaction, you're out in a town and suddenly they start killing people regardless if you have prevent attack innocent on. The bounty and heat will still be applied to you.

No. I want my DB companion to be able to stealth kill their BoW targets with enough proficiency that they don't pull attention to either themselves or onto us.

A professional zealot of Sithis, rather than just a random killer. Like Cicero, for example.

KnightofGears · November 2023

If we're going to have a necromancer companion, I'd rather see an orc than a high elf. Something like Ulicetta maybe? Since she's already being banished from Artaeum in game, she'd be free to become a follower for the Vestige

Masteroshi430 · November 2023

MissAethe wrote: »

One thing I've noticed with the Companions we've gotten so far is they're all pretty much the same when it comes to morality. They're pushing pretty solidly "good" to me, even in the cases of the ones who are more gray (Sharp doesn't like you stealing from specific people for example). I would really like to see an actual true gray to black companion for once.

My Companion Wish, to be specific, would be a male necromancer high elf who is frankly an ***. Maybe he's ex-worm cult to boot, but I want him to be the exact opposite of the other companions.

[...]

Sometimes I'm playing on a character whose supposed to be Awful and I want an equally Awful companion. That's all

Ooooh! That just gave me the idea of a schizophrenic type companion for whom you'll never know what do right/do wrong will increase/decrease rapport.

We can also have a silly one whom could switch sides when in combat if the rapport is low.

zaria · November 2023

I say only Bastian and Isobel are the only two who are dislike stealing or murder.
Mirri dislike the dark brotherhood and the use of blade of woe even on enemies you would kill other ways.
Sharp dislike pickpocketing poorer people but is fine with anything else.
Azandar if cool with anything criminal, Ember love stealing but hate getting caught.

Kisakee · November 2023

I don't care which race, profession or background - just gimme someone that likes all the immoral things! Mass murder in particular.

emilyhyoyeon · November 2023

None of the current companions, even though some are okay with stealing/murder, don't actually have ''evil'' personalities or anything similar as described by the OP. The closest things are Ember liking theft (but she does not at all come off as ''morally dark'' for it based on how she's designed overall) and Azandar not liking helping beggars (he comes off as the most morally dark overall IMO so far).

I think a change from that would be cool and I think would be fitting of the necromancer companion if they're coming. Not all necessarily caricature-ly evil, but someone like Ember does not cut it. Seeing the personality represented in the quests is important too.

I'm not more interested in ''evil'' stuff than ''good'' by any means -- Isobel is my favorite so far -- but I think having a truly wide spectrum of character personalities would be good.

Ye_Olde_Crowe · November 2023

Azandar became my main’s to-go companion because he doesn‘t care if they murder or steal from others, and he doesn’t care if they get caught. His dislike for mushrooms, oooookay, but still.
He may not be an outlaw, but his attitude is quite compatible with that of my pretty unstable main.

Kendaric · November 2023

emilyhyoyeon wrote: »

None of the current companions, even though some are okay with stealing/murder, don't actually have ''evil'' personalities or anything similar as described by the OP. The closest things are Ember liking theft (but she does not at all come off as ''morally dark'' for it based on how she's designed overall) and Azandar not liking helping beggars (he comes off as the most morally dark overall IMO so far).

I think a change from that would be cool and I think would be fitting of the necromancer companion if they're coming. Not all necessarily caricature-ly evil, but someone like Ember does not cut it. Seeing the personality represented in the quests is important too.

I'm not more interested in ''evil'' stuff than ''good'' by any means -- Isobel is my favorite so far -- but I think having a truly wide spectrum of character personalities would be good.

"Evil" is very hard to do, considering how easily people get offended. I totally understand why ZOS is extremely cautious in that regard.
Would I love "darker" options in quests, such as siding with slavers or agreeing to mass murder? Sure. But ZOS can't implement stuff like that without getting a lot of backlash and negative publicity, especially when something like this involves innocents.

Having a companion accept slaughtering of innocents or similar things is probably the most we'll get.

centime · November 2023

I love the idea of a morally dark companion. While Ember is pro-theft it is not the same as what MissAethe described. We have no high elf companion, and I think a high elf would be the best race for the concept. Narcissistic, cold, dark, the antithesis of Meridia. I am entirely on board. Thanks, MissAethe, for the suggestion!

wilykcat · November 2023

Obviously evil companions or companions that are secretly evil. When I think of something that's evil, I think of demons. Demons who disguise themselves as normal beings and behind the back they attack.

Also years ago world of warcraft had quests referring to some of very dark/evil content before someone got offended--then removed over 100 ingame references and jokes.

Maybe a companion who is secretly evil is more of a better idea.

centime · November 2023

wilykcat wrote: »

Maybe a companion who is secretly evil is more of a better idea.

I think the concept that MissAethe suggested is of a "secretly" evil rather than overtly evil companion, though. They wouldn't be performing evil acts themselves, but would just enjoy it when you do those things. Rapport going up when you employ the BoW, etc.

Perhaps @MissAethe can correct me if I am wrong, but that is what I understood.

Araneae6537 · November 2023

I will be sooo upset if when we FINALLY get an Altmer companion they’re some Mannimarco knock-off, some cliché megalomaniac.

Several companions are morally grey, as has been described. Ember seems darkest to me since she seems to be gleeful about killing. Only Bastian and Isobel are morally good, while most are neutral.

A character like Elam Drals is the only type of evil companion that I could imagine being enjoyable.

Araneae6537 · November 2023

Kendaric wrote: »

emilyhyoyeon wrote: »

None of the current companions, even though some are okay with stealing/murder, don't actually have ''evil'' personalities or anything similar as described by the OP. The closest things are Ember liking theft (but she does not at all come off as ''morally dark'' for it based on how she's designed overall) and Azandar not liking helping beggars (he comes off as the most morally dark overall IMO so far).

I think a change from that would be cool and I think would be fitting of the necromancer companion if they're coming. Not all necessarily caricature-ly evil, but someone like Ember does not cut it. Seeing the personality represented in the quests is important too.

I'm not more interested in ''evil'' stuff than ''good'' by any means -- Isobel is my favorite so far -- but I think having a truly wide spectrum of character personalities would be good.

"Evil" is very hard to do, considering how easily people get offended. I totally understand why ZOS is extremely cautious in that regard.
Would I love "darker" options in quests, such as siding with slavers or agreeing to mass murder? Sure. But ZOS can't implement stuff like that without getting a lot of backlash and negative publicity, especially when something like this involves innocents.

Isn’t this what the Dark Brotherhood is? They are a murder cult.

Braffin · November 2023

Kendaric wrote: »

emilyhyoyeon wrote: »

None of the current companions, even though some are okay with stealing/murder, don't actually have ''evil'' personalities or anything similar as described by the OP. The closest things are Ember liking theft (but she does not at all come off as ''morally dark'' for it based on how she's designed overall) and Azandar not liking helping beggars (he comes off as the most morally dark overall IMO so far).

I think a change from that would be cool and I think would be fitting of the necromancer companion if they're coming. Not all necessarily caricature-ly evil, but someone like Ember does not cut it. Seeing the personality represented in the quests is important too.

I'm not more interested in ''evil'' stuff than ''good'' by any means -- Isobel is my favorite so far -- but I think having a truly wide spectrum of character personalities would be good.

"Evil" is very hard to do, considering how easily people get offended. I totally understand why ZOS is extremely cautious in that regard.
Would I love "darker" options in quests, such as siding with slavers or agreeing to mass murder? Sure. But ZOS can't implement stuff like that without getting a lot of backlash and negative publicity, especially when something like this involves innocents.

Having a companion accept slaughtering of innocents or similar things is probably the most we'll get.

I agree here.

While I personally enjoy playing "evil" as well as having evil characters around me from time to time, it's definitely a very special (and often "emotionally" challenging) experience to make. A well-made example for "how to do evil" imo is Pathfinder Wotr (try it out as lich or demon if you really want to play evil for once).

But to being able to truly play this way, the whole world has to react to your actions. Otherwise it's just washed-out and gets unwillingly comical most of the time.

I don't think eso provides a fitting setting for evil characters (We saw that with DB, which wasn't "evil" at all, although the story was well done.). Sticking with morally grey is the better approach imo.

JemadarofCaerSalis · November 2023

Araneae6537 wrote: »

Kendaric wrote: »

emilyhyoyeon wrote: »

None of the current companions, even though some are okay with stealing/murder, don't actually have ''evil'' personalities or anything similar as described by the OP. The closest things are Ember liking theft (but she does not at all come off as ''morally dark'' for it based on how she's designed overall) and Azandar not liking helping beggars (he comes off as the most morally dark overall IMO so far).

I think a change from that would be cool and I think would be fitting of the necromancer companion if they're coming. Not all necessarily caricature-ly evil, but someone like Ember does not cut it. Seeing the personality represented in the quests is important too.

I'm not more interested in ''evil'' stuff than ''good'' by any means -- Isobel is my favorite so far -- but I think having a truly wide spectrum of character personalities would be good.

"Evil" is very hard to do, considering how easily people get offended. I totally understand why ZOS is extremely cautious in that regard.
Would I love "darker" options in quests, such as siding with slavers or agreeing to mass murder? Sure. But ZOS can't implement stuff like that without getting a lot of backlash and negative publicity, especially when something like this involves innocents.

Isn’t this what the Dark Brotherhood is? They are a murder cult.

True, but even they are basically confined to a DLC, and you don't see random assassins going around killing people (except for random vestiges).

I agree with the person who doesn't want an Evil High Elf, I want a male high elf companion, but I don't want them to be a stereotypical 'I am so evil, I am going to take over the world' mannimarco knock off.

Perhaps, as said above, an orc, or even a Bosmer who wants to kill people who don't obey the green pact (wasn't there that one bosmer in Greenshade who was going to do just that?), something like that.

r34lian · November 2023

I want little leaf as companion Pretty please!

NotaDaedraWorshipper · November 2023

r34lian wrote: »

I want little leaf as companion Pretty please!

Isn't she dead?

metheglyn · November 2023

In my mind, there's little reason a truly evil character would want to be anyone's companion or hang out with the player character. I could see them joining up with someone only to serve their own ends (those ends likely being stealing from and/or murdering the player character) but it just doesn't seem like a long-term relationship built on rapport works with someone evil.

RaddlemanNumber7 · November 2023

A Companion using BoW, or getting positive rapport from BoW, can have only one result - every street in Tamriel will be littered with corpses of innocents. Not something I want to see..

centime · November 2023

RaddlemanNumber7 wrote: »

A Companion using BoW, or getting positive rapport from BoW, can have only one result - every street in Tamriel will be littered with corpses of innocents. Not something I want to see..

The companion wouldn't be using BoW, though, just gaining rapport with your char when they use it (or other applicable actions). So no streets littered with bodies, except for the pretty rare player that slaughters innocents any way.

spartaxoxo · November 2023

emilyhyoyeon wrote: »

None of the current companions, even though some are okay with stealing/murder, don't actually have ''evil'' personalities or anything similar as described by the OP. The closest things are Ember liking theft (but she does not at all come off as ''morally dark'' for it based on how she's designed overall) and Azandar not liking helping beggars (he comes off as the most morally dark overall IMO so far).

Evil doesn't have to mean that they have a "dark" personality, though. Ember is definitely morally dark. Her quest line does show her as less malicious than a fully dark character would be. But, she's definitely much more evil than Bastian or a normal Tamriel citizen.

NotaDaedraWorshipper · November 2023

spartaxoxo wrote: »

emilyhyoyeon wrote: »

None of the current companions, even though some are okay with stealing/murder, don't actually have ''evil'' personalities or anything similar as described by the OP. The closest things are Ember liking theft (but she does not at all come off as ''morally dark'' for it based on how she's designed overall) and Azandar not liking helping beggars (he comes off as the most morally dark overall IMO so far).

Evil doesn't have to mean that they have a "dark" personality, though. Ember is definitely morally dark. Her quest line does show her as less malicious than a fully dark character would be. But, she's definitely much more evil than Bastian or a normal Tamriel citizen.

I honestly don't find Ember that evil. She's a streetkid, which there are many of in Tamriel, so she has some ambigious morals, but she doesn't seem to be a person who'd like some "evil" choices and things like murder for the fun of it. Especially if you go by how she's potrayed in her quests and not the random cheers when in combat (which can also be scared childish sound). She's for her and her friends/family survival. I've two very morally questionable characters and I'm damn sure they wouldn't get along if things were more roleplaying-ish. Bastian isn't even as morally stuck up as some claim.

spartaxoxo · November 2023

NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

emilyhyoyeon wrote: »

None of the current companions, even though some are okay with stealing/murder, don't actually have ''evil'' personalities or anything similar as described by the OP. The closest things are Ember liking theft (but she does not at all come off as ''morally dark'' for it based on how she's designed overall) and Azandar not liking helping beggars (he comes off as the most morally dark overall IMO so far).

Evil doesn't have to mean that they have a "dark" personality, though. Ember is definitely morally dark. Her quest line does show her as less malicious than a fully dark character would be. But, she's definitely much more evil than Bastian or a normal Tamriel citizen.

I honestly don't find Ember that evil. She's a streetkid, which there are many of in Tamriel, so she has some ambigious morals, but she doesn't seem to be a person who'd like some "evil" choices and things like murder for the fun of it. Especially if you go by how she's potrayed in her quests and not the random cheers when in combat (which can also be scared childish sound). She's for her and her friends/family survival. I've two very morally questionable characters and I'm damn sure they wouldn't get along if things were more roleplaying-ish. Bastian isn't even as morally stuck up as some claim.

IDK even her quests she talked about things like purposefully starting tavern brawls with people so she could steal from them. So, she'd get people assaulted so that she could rob them.

She also expresses annoyance (but acceptance) that she can't just kill regular civilians that she dislikes. And is happy when she gets a chance to "knock some heads around" because the violence is more acceptable in her more complicated views. Like most of Tamriel (including the morally good characters) she does view innocents as different to slavers, bandits, cultists, etc. But unlike those characters, she seems annoyed she can't just kill the ones she hates. Even though she hates them for good reason, it doesn't help paint her glee at killing at the people she can as less sadistic.

It comes across less that she doesn't murder because it's evil, and more because she doesn't want the social/legal consequences of it, to me. Something that is reinforced by her rapport and combat lines imo.

JemadarofCaerSalis · November 2023

centime wrote: »

RaddlemanNumber7 wrote: »

A Companion using BoW, or getting positive rapport from BoW, can have only one result - every street in Tamriel will be littered with corpses of innocents. Not something I want to see..

The companion wouldn't be using BoW, though, just gaining rapport with your char when they use it (or other applicable actions). So no streets littered with bodies, except for the pretty rare player that slaughters innocents any way.

They could also prevent that even more by adding a timer to the rapport increase.

IE + 10 once an hour for using BoW. or something like that.

emilyhyoyeon · November 2023

spartaxoxo wrote: »

emilyhyoyeon wrote: »

None of the current companions, even though some are okay with stealing/murder, don't actually have ''evil'' personalities or anything similar as described by the OP. The closest things are Ember liking theft (but she does not at all come off as ''morally dark'' for it based on how she's designed overall) and Azandar not liking helping beggars (he comes off as the most morally dark overall IMO so far).

Evil doesn't have to mean that they have a "dark" personality, though. Ember is definitely morally dark. Her quest line does show her as less malicious than a fully dark character would be. But, she's definitely much more evil than Bastian or a normal Tamriel citizen.

I'm going by what the OP is describing. Ember doesn't get close to that (she always came off to me exactly as Notadaedraworshipper describes).

There's no current companion that lives up to the OP description.

Saccopharynx · November 2023

Sorry for the late reply!

I definitely mean as close to a bad evil nasty character as you can get. I don't feel personally, even with the few "exceptions", that we have that as a companion. Everyone we have so far is definitely morally grey leaning white by the idea I'm trying to express. I don't want just "okay with murder", I want, "this guy encourages it because he hates everyone". Yeah it might be very hard for ZOS to pull off, but that's what I want.

If the guy isn't as close to being an a**hole as you can get, I don't want it.