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Request to remove diminishing returns on loot.
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ShinChuck✭✭✭I'm with OP."It's morally wrong to suggest gameplay changes for an MMO."
...seriously, someone told me that once here. The things people will do to win their internet arguments!2 -
Shillen✭✭✭I hate this too. I wanted train provisioning on a couple of my characters. Well apparently looting everything on one character made it so my other character could not find a recipe whatsoever. So he literally couldn't do any provisioning at all. I wasn't looking for recipes and motifs to sell. I just wanted to level my own characters' provisioning skills.
Stop ruining my game experience in an attempt to stop the exploiters/bots/farmers.Edited by Shillen on May 7, 2014 2:29AMPlease LOL my comments. I'm an aspiring comedian.4 -
Turkeysammich✭✭✭Real problem - at least for motifs and recipes is that they RARELY drop from mobs or in chest requiring pickable locks. Its also rather lame that containers in the uncivilized areas have the same drop rates as those in the cities. ZoS started wrong by having good stuff available in the city containers; good stuff should be available when you actually doing adventuring. Cannot speak to high level provisioning materials issues; because I am not there.
I've been playing since early access, and I've never had a recipe or motif drop from any boss or any lesser enemy, only from containers, before diminishing results was put in. I haven't gotten any after, even from containers, not a single recipe.
One thing that just occurred to me, what about the Justice system? We're going to be punished for looting an NPC's containers, and you know what they're going to have in them? Nothing or a lock pick.
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gotgk✭✭This patch killed Provision crafting. Why should it even exist in the game now? ZOS is better off removing it from the skill tree. Hundreds of people are going to respec out of it immediately because of this. Even if it gets fixed, nobody will try speccing into it again after this incident. I guarantee it won't be fixed soon either. That would mean ZOS admits they made a mistake. I've yet to see ZOS post-launch come back and say they made a bad decision. Last time they came even close to recanting was pre-launch when they announced "no first-person". The most recent patch killed Provision crafting. Period.
I put in a request for a free respec a couple weeks back, and it was granted. If Vet zones only dropped level 1 ore or wood, you'd better bet your bottom dollar that shite would be fixed up rapidfast. Fact of the matter is that you can't craft Veteran Food and Drink without the correct loot dropping from provisioning containers.
I wish they'd fix it, but in the mean time I'm enjoying my extra skill points.
The crafting system was sold as new and interesting, and here's the worst part: I like it. But the legion of bugs that have plagued all aspects of this game have certainly not missed the crafting system (VR3 heavy chest crafting, anyone?), and the overall treatment of Provisioning as a tradeskill suggests that ZOS has very little interest in a fix any time soon. Honestly, it seems like the Provisioning loot containers in Vet areas are just missing a VET Flag, but surely it must be more than that, right?
Right?0 -
Iorail✭✭✭✭How to fix: Motif Bound to the account. (just tradable with Alt)
Who have lots of Motif ready to sell, simple can't, if is bound.
But not! Better nerf one profession... for limit the farming of "rare" motif.
This, ^^^^
Revert the damn change and make all motiff Bound on Pick Up to the account, problem solved... and while you are at it, fix the provisioning materials for the veteran zones to grant the correct ingredients, looting a level I material when I need level VI is utterly ridiculous.....
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Evergnar✭✭✭✭✭
✭Turkeysammich wrote: »Real problem - at least for motifs and recipes is that they RARELY drop from mobs or in chest requiring pickable locks. Its also rather lame that containers in the uncivilized areas have the same drop rates as those in the cities. ZoS started wrong by having good stuff available in the city containers; good stuff should be available when you actually doing adventuring. Cannot speak to high level provisioning materials issues; because I am not there.
I've been playing since early access, and I've never had a recipe or motif drop from any boss or any lesser enemy, only from containers, before diminishing results was put in. I haven't gotten any after, even from containers, not a single recipe.
One thing that just occurred to me, what about the Justice system? We're going to be punished for looting an NPC's containers, and you know what they're going to have in them? Nothing or a lock pick.
Same. Pretty much just lock pics or empty. I would really hope they rethink this. Maybe its just bad implementation or a bug on there part though. I suddenly had a room full of level 50 solvents & provisioning materials on a level 33 quest (fighters guild) with a level 35 character last night.
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Epona222✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I reckon put the standard motif books in locked chests or you can learn an occasional random one that you don't already have as a quest reward. Or have a crafting guild with small quests (secure a mine from bandits, that sort of thing) that gives them as fixed rewards. (In all cases bound to account, so you can share them with a crafting alt, but not sell them).
Rarer motifs could be tied to achievements - kill 1000 daedra, earn the right to craft in daedric style etc - no book at all, the style is just learned on earning the achievement (sticking it to them enough times should teach you something about their armor design*). Imperial (for those without the IE) could be tied to something to do with the MQ, or Cyrodil.
*Edit: You'd still have to put enough points into whichever craft to be able to use the mats to craft it.Edited by Epona222 on May 8, 2014 2:11AMGM - Ghost Sea Trading Co - NA PC
Epona was a Romano-Celtic goddess dating back to around 1800 to 2000 years before computer games were invented.0 -
Knottypine✭✭✭ChairGraveyard wrote: »Knottypine wrote: »Does the diminishing returns also effect overworld bosses (the skull and cross bones)? I had 2 on my map that were not cleared yet. I killed one with a few others around, and received loot. Within 5-10 minutes I was at another boss to clear it, and only received a couple of gold from it. Both bosses where now showing as cleared, but I only received loot from one of them.
Yes, it does. In the patch notes for 1.0.6 it said blah blah blah, "frequency of loot from public dungeon and world bosses".
Worst, laziest, most ineffective "fix" ever.
I thought it was from the same boss. Had I known it would have had that wide effect I would have waited before clearing the second boss so I could have at least gained some loot from it.
Agree that the fix is ineffective in some cases.0 -
Epona222✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Knottypine wrote: »ChairGraveyard wrote: »Knottypine wrote: »Does the diminishing returns also effect overworld bosses (the skull and cross bones)? I had 2 on my map that were not cleared yet. I killed one with a few others around, and received loot. Within 5-10 minutes I was at another boss to clear it, and only received a couple of gold from it. Both bosses where now showing as cleared, but I only received loot from one of them.
Yes, it does. In the patch notes for 1.0.6 it said blah blah blah, "frequency of loot from public dungeon and world bosses".
Worst, laziest, most ineffective "fix" ever.
I thought it was from the same boss. Had I known it would have had that wide effect I would have waited before clearing the second boss so I could have at least gained some loot from it.
Agree that the fix is ineffective in some cases.
Yeah in some dungeons there is more than one mob that is considered a boss. Toothmaul Gully group challenge has 5 bosses I think. Undaunted questline you can go straight from 1 dungeon to the equivalents in other zones. Some faction questlines have a sort of mini-boss in the run up to to the main. It's now become a good idea to go and have a coffee and read a few pages of a book before moving on to the next part of the dungeon or quest if you want a chance at anything more than a couple of gold.
Edited by Epona222 on May 8, 2014 2:42AMGM - Ghost Sea Trading Co - NA PC
Epona was a Romano-Celtic goddess dating back to around 1800 to 2000 years before computer games were invented.1 -
Daethz✭✭✭They also made it impossible to farm instance bosses.
I generally farmed them until I got their signature blue item to drop, now I cant.Waiting, and watching, for the return of Melee Weapons.
-Subsidiary of The Fighters Guild3 -
Epona222✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Another bad move by Zenimax. Go figure. You broke provisioning, really ???
My provisioner (who is at provisioning lvl 50) can no longer guarantee that she will be able to cook enough foods to buff her adequately on her adventures.
GM - Ghost Sea Trading Co - NA PC
Epona was a Romano-Celtic goddess dating back to around 1800 to 2000 years before computer games were invented.0 -
As an aside, I decided to spend a point in the 'provisioner's helper' just to see what I could get in the mail. I was stunned. I got garbage - one or two of the most common ingredients that I no longer collect because I have enough stacks of 100 of them. My helpers for Blacksmithing, clothing, and woodworking quite often deliver purple and gold tempers so why not include rare ingredients and recipes with a small chance of getting a blue, purple or gold recipe?
As for the diminishing returns, it's not fun and putting things in the game that aren't fun is counter-productive.
As for measures to combat gold farming, right now the concern is the annoyance value of bots taking our loot and the spamming of our mail but the deeper problem is the destruction of community trust - "Did he earn that sword/armor/status or did he buy it?" "Shall I aid that player or is it a bot?"
All measures taken to combat gold selling will fail since these companies are professionals that will adapt and find other means to prevail - putting fingers in the *** is simply a waste of resources. The only way to end this cycle is to follow the transactions of gold companies to players and to ban any player that deals with them. This must be accompanied by a large promotional campaign ensuring that every player knows that if they buy gold or anything from these companies they run a large risk of losing everything. This is their Achilles heel - market confidence. Destroy that and you solve the problem.3 -
SinisterJoint✭✭✭This whole thing came about because of a bunch of hoarding dresser motif farmers.
This is why we cant have nice things. Want to blame someone? Blame them.
But yes, it needs to be reworked1 -
vaxure✭✭✭Maybe i'm the odd one out here but i haven't noticed, i'm still filling my bags with provisioning mats all the time? I will say i did notice the lvl 1 mats in vet zone but other than that i still have a ton of food mats? As for the motifs, well i never bothered abusing them by relogging 50 times so no change there for me
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Musonius✭ZOS_TristanK wrote: »Instead, we ask that you offer recommendations, suggestions, or requests about topics you feel need change. In order to continue making improvements to our game, it's important that we get details from you regarding why you like or dislike something.
Oooh I have a suggestion. Fire whoever the genius or geniuses are that created a server architecture in which you didn't have container status tracking across instances per character and hire someone with a clue. I doubt that will happen though. Instead we will probably get a change that tracks container status on the client side which will take the hackers about 5 minutes to figure out how to exploit, just as they did for the speed and any number of other client side hacks out there.0 -
Musonius✭Atzenxb14a_ESO wrote: »This whole thing came about because of a bunch of hoarding dresser motif farmers.
This is why we cant have nice things. Want to blame someone? Blame them.
But yes, it needs to be reworked
I guess you like to blame the rain for getting you wet, too. One of the rules you should learn in life, IF circumstances allow for people to be a$$hats, there will be plenty of a$$hats. Try blaming the devs that designed a system which allowed a$$hattery, instead of saying to themselves, "gee, do you think this exploit will be abused by a$$hats?" and "maybe we ought to not leave it in our multi million dollar game".
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vaxure✭✭✭ZOS_TristanK wrote: »Instead, we ask that you offer recommendations, suggestions, or requests about topics you feel need change. In order to continue making improvements to our game, it's important that we get details from you regarding why you like or dislike something.
Oooh I have a suggestion. Fire whoever the genius or geniuses are that created a server architecture in which you didn't have container status tracking across instances per character and hire someone with a clue. I doubt that will happen though. Instead we will probably get a change that tracks container status on the client side which will take the hackers about 5 minutes to figure out how to exploit, just as they did for the speed and any number of other client side hacks out there.
Yeah i'm guessing there going to take that suggestion into consideration lol. btw i though you canceled your account?0 -
krashwire_ESO✭✭✭Zos has made a number of decisions that benefit bots and hurt the player lately.
There is just no way these decisions were done accident. It was obviuos to many players before the boss loot timer went in that it not only hurt players but would benefit bots. The nerf to containers was even more a swing in the bots favor.
Zenimax how much are the big gold sites paying you to make such obviously bad decisions?3 -
Abigail✭✭✭✭✭Maybe i'm the odd one out here but i haven't noticed, i'm still filling my bags with provisioning mats all the time? I will say i did notice the lvl 1 mats in vet zone but other than that i still have a ton of food mats? As for the motifs, well i never bothered abusing them by relogging 50 times so no change there for me
In other words ...
The problem is not with a shortage of food items to Provision with; it's with the sharp decline in recipes, motifs, and other items that used to appear as loot from dressers, nightstands, cupboards, and backpacks.
And I take exception to your inference that anyone dismayed by ZoS's ridiculous nerfing of loot drops is a serial re-logger. One of my guild mates posted about that exploit on the first day of early access, but until I decided to level up Provisioning on my designated alt I was only a casual looter, doing so perhaps once a day on a single alt, and then only in a somewhat haphazard fashion. I was quite content that this most casual looting pattern garnered me one or two motifs daily; that is until about three weeks ago when the appearance of any motifs and recipes stopped abruptly.
So, maybe you're not affected by the nerf, good for you, but as a lowbie (yeah, lowbie, not power leveler) I and many others are terrifically impacted by ZoS's stealth nerf. We cannot get the recipes we need, nor can we get motifs, both being paramount for dedicated crafters wanting to eventually market to others. Moreover, there's a whole bunch of us who enjoy doing things other than constantly questing and PvP, one of those activities being looting. With its nerf, ZoS has effectively eliminated that as a component of our game. It is way beyond infuriating on many levels.
As said previously by me and many others, ZoS may have been trying to stymie serial-logging game exploiters and botters, but the only thing they really guaranteed was spoiling a big part of the game for normal players.
Edited by Abigail on May 8, 2014 7:27AM3 -
rawne1980b16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭I'm noticing a trend here and i'm not liking the direction it's going.
If something is happening that ZOS doesn't seem to like .... nerf.
If something is broken and they don't know how to fix it .... nerf.
So they "nerfed" containers to combat reloggers and/or bots while also screwing over people that don't abuse that particular method .... great going.
I don't complain about much but I am getting tired of all these "nerfs" that don't need to happen. It's something ZOS seem to do quite a bit and it's going to annoy more people than it pleases.3 -
Musonius✭ZOS_TristanK wrote: »Instead, we ask that you offer recommendations, suggestions, or requests about topics you feel need change. In order to continue making improvements to our game, it's important that we get details from you regarding why you like or dislike something.
Oooh I have a suggestion. Fire whoever the genius or geniuses are that created a server architecture in which you didn't have container status tracking across instances per character and hire someone with a clue. I doubt that will happen though. Instead we will probably get a change that tracks container status on the client side which will take the hackers about 5 minutes to figure out how to exploit, just as they did for the speed and any number of other client side hacks out there.
Yeah i'm guessing there going to take that suggestion into consideration lol. btw i though you canceled your account?
I did cancel, but since they gave me 5 extra days, I'm still here. Don't worry I will be gone soon and all you that love the game will have it to your selves. I hope those that enjoy the game continue to play and support it (I really do, I'm not being sarcastic).1 -
Turkeysammich✭✭✭
Same. Pretty much just lock pics or empty. I would really hope they rethink this. Maybe its just bad implementation or a bug on there part though. I suddenly had a room full of level 50 solvents & provisioning materials on a level 33 quest (fighters guild) with a level 35 character last night.
I'm willing to go with bug too, I refuse to believe they would punish normal players like this. I decided to make a new character, after playing for a bit on my main, and when I log in with it, it's the same 80% empty containers, and world bosses that I kill, for the first time, not just on this character, first time for my account, these world bosses drop 1 gold, that's it, just one gold. I wait 30 minutes for a group to get to the world boss, it kills us all twice each, and it drops 1 gold. What kind of bull is that?
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Sariias✭✭✭I leveled Provisioning from 25 to 50 with two casual zone city runs for container loot. That was it. I don't think it was the sheer amount of loot I got that helped, I think it was how fast provisioning is trained, it seemed like cooking 10 things got me another rank up, and I never cooked anything higher than level 35 food to get to rank 50. I'd rather see provisioning harder to train than see loot drops get nerfed, if that was the case.
And, I'm really, really, really tired of looting lockpicks. Plus all those containers that open to give me nothing, they're just super disappointing. I used to jump at trunks, and now, they're just disappointing. If you're going to lower recipe and motif drop rates, give us something other than lockpicks and potatoes. Throw in the occasional cloth or ingot or something.Edited by Sariias on May 8, 2014 7:55AM0 -
Abigail✭✭✭✭✭ZoS needs to give us a new emote:
/fingerupbutt
because if they keep nerfing things that's all will be able to stand around and do.1 -
Coni✭✭I usually loot everything as I go, have never farmed bosses for the blue item as it's not that important to me - all I wanted was the achievement for completing dungeons. But I have tended to do a sweep at the end of completing a zone to tidy up the dungeons/world bosses/skyshards I'd missed along the way. This nerf with the bosses really messes that up for me
Making it account wide and not by individual boss also hurts as I have an couple of alts I play with my husband and some friends - the boss nerf now means I'm getting rubbish drops on the alt if I've recently killed a completely different boss on my main.
And as to provisioning I have been throwing all the food mats I get into the guild bank, but yes I've noticed a drop in containers with anything in them.2 -
Zancont✭I am lvl 37 atm with provisioning at 50
Before the patch I was lucky to loot 3 purple recipes for lvl 35 brews but no one bothers about these beverage. No ones buys em in in guild store. No ones even asks for a price if I zone call em for sale whereas I get a fast "how much?" if I zone call a motif.
About provisioning mats - I get enough of em in the areas I am around by checking all the barrels and sacks but I don't know what to do with the stacks of lockpicks besides destroying them. Since patch I found 2 blue recipes and 2 motifs and I dedicate a substantial gametime running around checking the relevant containers.
Green recipes are dropping at least 3-4 on a run and most of em I dump into vendors or guild bank.
As mentioned before by someone - you need storage alts to cope with all things you need if you are a multi crafter like me. I have bank storage 130 , main 120 and 3 alts with 90 and am glad to have 40 free spaces on my main when adventuring.
My suggestions:- set motifs to status "bound" which limits it to be exchanged within an account only. Same to blue and purple recipes.
- get players informed about how to get the motifs 10-14, someone mentioned you only can find them when you are in veteran ranks. If so people would stop checking containers and getting frustrated when looking for sth they can't get at their lvl.
- empower the vendors on marketplaces that sell food and beverage to pay you for delivering xx amount of a recipe result with the blue version of this recipe and xx blue ones with the purple one
- increase the amount of materials a stack can contain to 999
- make bank slots cheaper with a max. of 200 or implement bags/containers
To get rid of bots - I played eve online for more than 4 years - it was all-ways fun hunting them down and killing them - you got tons of "well done" by the community on your killboard when you killed one. Figure out a mechanism how to enable flagging for pvp in pve environment and you will find players that will slip into the role of bot hunters0 -
SootyTX✭✭✭ZoS has already indicated that the sharp decline in motif drops could be a bug, so lets relax about that one until we see how it plays out. And lets remember, those things were supposed to be 'rare', we just got used to the huge supply thanks to the the re-loggers driving down the selling price that we just felt like they were common items.
As far as the diminishing returns on provisioning items goes, I honestly haven't noticed any impact whatsoever, but then I don't clean out every container I open, I choose what I want to pick up or not - maybe that has an effect? All I'm doing most of the time is picking up the tier 2 and 3 ingredients, plus maybe one or two specific tier 1 items. I've picked up 3 or 4 motifs in the last couple of days as well as the usual handful of recipes (most of which I already have so they go straight to the guild).
But trying to claim that ZoS is doing all this because the gold farmers are paying them is beyond ridiculous. Since early access I've seen nothing but action against bots and their numbers are dractically lower now than they used to be, and those that are around are being pushed into more remote areas almost daily.0 -
vaxure✭✭✭Maybe i'm the odd one out here but i haven't noticed, i'm still filling my bags with provisioning mats all the time? I will say i did notice the lvl 1 mats in vet zone but other than that i still have a ton of food mats? As for the motifs, well i never bothered abusing them by relogging 50 times so no change there for me
In other words ...
The problem is not with a shortage of food items to Provision with; it's with the sharp decline in recipes, motifs, and other items that used to appear as loot from dressers, nightstands, cupboards, and backpacks.
And I It's ridiculous, you can farm as much ore, runes, hides, alchemy ingredients, and wood you want, but when it comes to provision recipes and ingredients, you're up crap creek without a paddle. One of my guild mates posted about that exploit on the first day of early access, but until I decided to level up Provisioning on my designated alt I was only a casual looter, doing so perhaps once a day on a single alt, and then only in a somewhat haphazard fashion. I was quite content that this most casual looting pattern garnered me one or two motifs daily; that is until about three weeks ago when the appearance of any motifs and recipes stopped abruptly.
So, maybe you're not affected by the nerf, good for you, but as a lowbie (yeah, lowbie, not power leveler) I and many others are terrifically impacted by ZoS's stealth nerf. We cannot get the recipes we need, nor can we get motifs, both being paramount for dedicated crafters wanting to eventually market to others. Moreover, there's a whole bunch of us who enjoy doing things other than constantly questing and PvP, one of those activities being looting. With its nerf, ZoS has effectively eliminated that as a component of our game. It is way beyond infuriating on many levels.
As said previously by me and many others, ZoS may have been trying to stymie serial-logging game exploiters and botters, but the only thing they really guaranteed was spoiling a big part of the game for normal players.
lol at the figmo.
Easy there little one, I was just stating what I've notice with myself not bashing anyone else's lootables. as for the motifs i just plainly didn't mention anything about them. i will say i have found less on that front.
You say the problem is not with the shortage of food items to provision with? i'll point you back to the OP where it quotes the first line as saying:
"It's ridiculous, you can farm as much ore, runes, hides, alchemy ingredients, and wood you want, but when it comes to provision recipes and ingredients, you're up crap creek without a paddle."
And i'm sorry you take exception to my inference, i wasn't accusing you or anyone in particular out right other than maybe the ones abusing the system. Guilty conscience?
Once again i will reiterate. My post was only about my own experiences. No need to come back at me with your problem.
Edited by vaxure on May 8, 2014 2:43PM0
