The absurdity of range in ESO hand to hand combat

GrimMauKin
GrimMauKin
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One of my first gripes with ESO was that I appeared to be being hit in hand to hand combat whilst hugely outside of an opponent's weapon range (whilst not being able to strike back). Apparently there's a reason for this, the logic of which escapes me as it really just seems to force toe to toe slugfests; this feeling hasn't improved over time!

One of the key components to hand to hand combat, when you're not playing a tank, is movement and agility and moving in and out of range; this just doesn't work in ESO and I've been struck numerous times whilst well out of range (including by a troll I was standing some fifteen feet behind!), I'm also getting hit by skills despite being well outside of their red zone of effect as well as heat seeking missile attacks (the issue seems to be walking/sprinting out of the zone/range rather than rolling).

I've watched other characters seemingly throw every skill they have repeatedly at a slightly lower level beastie dealing as much damage as possible in as short a time to win, but I'm struggling to out manoeuvre and wear down an opponent with lower damage attacks; not really a case of 'play the way you want to'. On the odd occasion I've managed to avoid attacks the opponent seems to get board, its health returns to full and it wanders off.

I do know that MMOs (this is my first) play differently to FPSs but they don't seem to invite the variety of play that they might.
I am one of The Great Mediocracy, those whose role in life is to provide the baseline by which The Few deem themselves Great.
  • Draaconis
    Draaconis
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    If an attack starts before you move out of the way, you will get hit unless you use the "dodge" mechanic.
  • ChairGraveyard
    ChairGraveyard
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    Draaconis wrote: »
    If an attack starts before you move out of the way, you will get hit unless you use the "dodge" mechanic.

    Yeah I hate this, myself. You should be able to move out of the range of a weapon and not get hit.
  • MercyKilling
    MercyKilling
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    GrimMauKin wrote: »
    I'm also getting hit by skills despite being well outside of their red zone of effect

    This. Ever so much this. I've been low on stamina and unable to "roll/dodge" out of a boss AoE, but fully able to stay outside the red circle....AND STILL GET HIT. Literally I'm staying ahead of the expanding circle and when it reaches full diameter and pops? Bam. Dead or very low health. Every time.

    This mechanic needs to change. If one is far enough ahead of the red circle and stays out of it, it should not hit you at all.
    I am not spending a single penny on the game until changes are made to the game that I want to see.
    1) Remove having to be in a guild to sell items to other players at a kiosk.
    2) Cosmetic modding for armor and clothing.
    3) Difficulty slider.
    4) Fully customizable player housing that isn't tied to anything in the game other than having the correct resources and enough gold to build. Don't tie it to PvP, guild membership, or anything at all. Oh, make it instanced so as not to take up world map space, too. Zeni screwed this one up already.
    Any /one/ of these things implemented would get me spending again, maybe even subbing.
  • LunaRae
    LunaRae
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    I see two aspects to this - when enemies NPC's show indicator zones of effects, I feel like I should be able to step out of that zone at the last millisecond and be safe. As a player though when I'm fighting bosses and the sort I'm STRONGLY relying on the ability to start an ability (such as rapid strikes, dual wield) and walk away from my target but still deal full damage. I'm also very far away from my target for regular attacks but they still land. I feel this is very important in keeping melee chars somewhat plausible because right now melee dps is getting outclassed by ranged dps who doesn't have to deal with the near-instant death melee abilities that bosses have. Especially when it's tough to properly dodge them.
    Stands-Strong-As-Snow ~ Argonian Templar DC NA V14
    Ytheri ~ Argonian Nightblade EP Thornblade NA V14
    Heals-All-Colours ~ Argonian Templar EP Thornblade NA V14
    Stands-In-Still-Waters~ Argonian Sorcerer EP Thornblade NA V2
  • RylukShouja
    RylukShouja
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    If you move far enough away from the npc's spawn point and wander zone, it will "reset" its bit points and return to its area. This is an mmo mechanic common to many mmos...so you can't train the world around behind you. :P things eventually get bored and wander off.

    This also happened in skyrim, but the chase zone was rather larger.
  • awkwarrd
    awkwarrd
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    Why can't you guys ever get proof?

    If this is so prevalent, then get out your fraps and record it, upload it to youtube and post it on here to show people.

    Multiple paragraphs of text can't do better than that.
  • Salsadoom
    Salsadoom
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    If you move far enough away from the npc's spawn point and wander zone, it will "reset" its bit points and return to its area. This is an mmo mechanic common to many mmos...so you can't train the world around behind you. :P things eventually get bored and wander off.

    This also happened in skyrim, but the chase zone was rather larger.


    I remember a time when some people pulled a Dragon into the Alliance starting zone Capital..........
  • awkwarrd
    awkwarrd
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    Also bash nerf in 1.1, it has a 2-3 second timer now.
    So.. expect to get rolled by casters all over the place, melee will just suck after 1.1 unless you're in a group zerg ball thing.
  • Selstad
    Selstad
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    I guess that the dying part even when outside of a circle is due to some server sided lag, i.e the server decided that your character was inside the circle even though your visuals said otherwise. There are other server sided delays like this, per example ability delay. I've died several times because an ability didn't go of even though I hammered the ability slot and had more than enough resources. I'm not sure whether it's the server's location or the server's capacity but I do know that they have to sort it out because this is one of the few real game breakers.

    I sure as hell hope that they manage to get the servers for the EU relocated ASAP and upgraded to handle the traffic without a hitch.
  • Rotherhans
    Rotherhans
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    I´m also voting for server lag.
    Also it´s very likely to be an actual feature of PvE to "cheat" on the collision detection in favor of the server so that possible exploits by the players are avoided.
    In other words, get used to it. :(
    “I'm not going out of my way looking for devils;
    but I wouldn't step out of my path to let one go by.”― Robert E. Howard
  • claudius_Dark
    I could swear I succeeded in evading the red area and didn't get damaged. Usually I jump and directional but sometimes I just side step. Maybe I am not seeing my health bar when I do this as I have a lot on my plate besides noting a bar.

    Could you test this against some easy opponents you can easily and really watch your bar? I would be interested in the results. I'll report back if I am finding the same.

    Definitely rolling dodge works. Maybe try that?
  • Mortelus
    Mortelus
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    I like it when a mob is building up a power attack (yellow one) and I roll back and keep backing up, I am a fare distance away from the mob before it unleashes his attack, but I am suddenly pinged back towards the mob to take the hit.

    Is it lag, is it a bug? I don't know, but it is annoying whatever it is.
    Who has time? But if we never take time how can we ever have time?
  • GrimMauKin
    GrimMauKin
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    The only way to evade attack if you're in range when it starts does seem to be to roll, otherwise you do seem to get hit, even if you're moved out of range, out of the line of attack or even behind cover (I've been hit through rocks and by a forward facing attack whilst standing some distance behind the opponent, missile attacks always find you); the same seems true of skills/power attacks. I've rolled forward into a missile attack which has then passed through me without causing damage.

    My main gripe through is still the distance that opponents can strike from; it's particularly bad with multiple opponents as you're likely to get hit by all of them regardless of where you position yourself - I think that they can even strike through each other (so no bottlenecking them in door ways etc. which tends to be a favourite tactic of mine); this just seems to favour tanking at the expense of other styles of play.
    I am one of The Great Mediocracy, those whose role in life is to provide the baseline by which The Few deem themselves Great.
  • KerinKor
    KerinKor
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    LOL, such a strong sense of deja vu here.

    Anyone who's played FFXIV will know this only too well, you evade the AOE, are well outside the 'red' but still you get hit. In the case of FFXIV it was the result of a moronic game design caused by the client only updating the character's position on the server every 300ms while it was the server determining the result of attacks.

    SE reduced it to 100ms and the incidents of this went down dramatically. However, it still exists there and clearly does so here.

    The problem is that both MMO's battle mechanics are based on off-line console FPS games where 'twitch' reactions are possible. In MMOs where the server is used to determine attack outcomes .. as it has to otherwise the bots get even more powerful .. such mechanics are impossible when you have to take into account 100ms+ latency x 2 if the attack outcome requires notification back to the client.
  • ElSlayer
    ElSlayer
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    Sounds like a lag problem.
    @d0e1ow: There is no singular thing within a game's little ecosystem that will convince you that you hate the game, hate your life, and hate everyone around you faster than the game's official forums will.

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