The absurdity of range in ESO hand to hand combat

GrimMauKin

One of my first gripes with ESO was that I appeared to be being hit in hand to hand combat whilst hugely outside of an opponent's weapon range (whilst not being able to strike back). Apparently there's a reason for this, the logic of which escapes me as it really just seems to force toe to toe slugfests; this feeling hasn't improved over time!

One of the key components to hand to hand combat, when you're not playing a tank, is movement and agility and moving in and out of range; this just doesn't work in ESO and I've been struck numerous times whilst well out of range (including by a troll I was standing some fifteen feet behind!), I'm also getting hit by skills despite being well outside of their red zone of effect as well as heat seeking missile attacks (the issue seems to be walking/sprinting out of the zone/range rather than rolling).

I've watched other characters seemingly throw every skill they have repeatedly at a slightly lower level beastie dealing as much damage as possible in as short a time to win, but I'm struggling to out manoeuvre and wear down an opponent with lower damage attacks; not really a case of 'play the way you want to'. On the odd occasion I've managed to avoid attacks the opponent seems to get board, its health returns to full and it wanders off.

I do know that MMOs (this is my first) play differently to FPSs but they don't seem to invite the variety of play that they might.

Draaconis

If an attack starts before you move out of the way, you will get hit unless you use the "dodge" mechanic.

ChairGraveyard

Draaconis wrote: »

If an attack starts before you move out of the way, you will get hit unless you use the "dodge" mechanic.

Yeah I hate this, myself. You should be able to move out of the range of a weapon and not get hit.

MercyKilling

GrimMauKin wrote: »

I'm also getting hit by skills despite being well outside of their red zone of effect

This. Ever so much this. I've been low on stamina and unable to "roll/dodge" out of a boss AoE, but fully able to stay outside the red circle....AND STILL GET HIT. Literally I'm staying ahead of the expanding circle and when it reaches full diameter and pops? Bam. Dead or very low health. Every time.

This mechanic needs to change. If one is far enough ahead of the red circle and stays out of it, it should not hit you at all.

LunaRae

I see two aspects to this - when enemies NPC's show indicator zones of effects, I feel like I should be able to step out of that zone at the last millisecond and be safe. As a player though when I'm fighting bosses and the sort I'm STRONGLY relying on the ability to start an ability (such as rapid strikes, dual wield) and walk away from my target but still deal full damage. I'm also very far away from my target for regular attacks but they still land. I feel this is very important in keeping melee chars somewhat plausible because right now melee dps is getting outclassed by ranged dps who doesn't have to deal with the near-instant death melee abilities that bosses have. Especially when it's tough to properly dodge them.

RylukShouja

If you move far enough away from the npc's spawn point and wander zone, it will "reset" its bit points and return to its area. This is an mmo mechanic common to many mmos...so you can't train the world around behind you. :P things eventually get bored and wander off.

This also happened in skyrim, but the chase zone was rather larger.

awkwarrd

Why can't you guys ever get proof?

If this is so prevalent, then get out your fraps and record it, upload it to youtube and post it on here to show people.

Multiple paragraphs of text can't do better than that.

Salsadoom

RylukShouja wrote: »

If you move far enough away from the npc's spawn point and wander zone, it will "reset" its bit points and return to its area. This is an mmo mechanic common to many mmos...so you can't train the world around behind you. :P things eventually get bored and wander off.

This also happened in skyrim, but the chase zone was rather larger.

I remember a time when some people pulled a Dragon into the Alliance starting zone Capital..........

awkwarrd

Also bash nerf in 1.1, it has a 2-3 second timer now.
So.. expect to get rolled by casters all over the place, melee will just suck after 1.1 unless you're in a group zerg ball thing.

Selstad

I guess that the dying part even when outside of a circle is due to some server sided lag, i.e the server decided that your character was inside the circle even though your visuals said otherwise. There are other server sided delays like this, per example ability delay. I've died several times because an ability didn't go of even though I hammered the ability slot and had more than enough resources. I'm not sure whether it's the server's location or the server's capacity but I do know that they have to sort it out because this is one of the few real game breakers.

I sure as hell hope that they manage to get the servers for the EU relocated ASAP and upgraded to handle the traffic without a hitch.

Rotherhans

I´m also voting for server lag.
Also it´s very likely to be an actual feature of PvE to "cheat" on the collision detection in favor of the server so that possible exploits by the players are avoided.
In other words, get used to it.

claudius_Dark

I could swear I succeeded in evading the red area and didn't get damaged. Usually I jump and directional but sometimes I just side step. Maybe I am not seeing my health bar when I do this as I have a lot on my plate besides noting a bar.

Could you test this against some easy opponents you can easily and really watch your bar? I would be interested in the results. I'll report back if I am finding the same.

Definitely rolling dodge works. Maybe try that?

Mortelus

I like it when a mob is building up a power attack (yellow one) and I roll back and keep backing up, I am a fare distance away from the mob before it unleashes his attack, but I am suddenly pinged back towards the mob to take the hit.

Is it lag, is it a bug? I don't know, but it is annoying whatever it is.

GrimMauKin

The only way to evade attack if you're in range when it starts does seem to be to roll, otherwise you do seem to get hit, even if you're moved out of range, out of the line of attack or even behind cover (I've been hit through rocks and by a forward facing attack whilst standing some distance behind the opponent, missile attacks always find you); the same seems true of skills/power attacks. I've rolled forward into a missile attack which has then passed through me without causing damage.

My main gripe through is still the distance that opponents can strike from; it's particularly bad with multiple opponents as you're likely to get hit by all of them regardless of where you position yourself - I think that they can even strike through each other (so no bottlenecking them in door ways etc. which tends to be a favourite tactic of mine); this just seems to favour tanking at the expense of other styles of play.

KerinKor

LOL, such a strong sense of deja vu here.

Anyone who's played FFXIV will know this only too well, you evade the AOE, are well outside the 'red' but still you get hit. In the case of FFXIV it was the result of a moronic game design caused by the client only updating the character's position on the server every 300ms while it was the server determining the result of attacks.

SE reduced it to 100ms and the incidents of this went down dramatically. However, it still exists there and clearly does so here.

The problem is that both MMO's battle mechanics are based on off-line console FPS games where 'twitch' reactions are possible. In MMOs where the server is used to determine attack outcomes .. as it has to otherwise the bots get even more powerful .. such mechanics are impossible when you have to take into account 100ms+ latency x 2 if the attack outcome requires notification back to the client.

ElSlayer

Sounds like a lag problem.