ESO_CenturionPlayer wrote: »

as a sorc, i advise you get ready. we have been on the back burner for years and it feels like necros are coming down to our level.

Back burner? Lol. Sorcs have been packed up and put in the back of the fridge.

OtarTheMad wrote: »

ESO_CenturionPlayer wrote: »

TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »

The performance and bugs are another issue and should totally be addressed, but regarding damage Necro has access to major vuln so the reality is that their personal dps should be slightly lower to compensate for what they can bring to the table with that debuff. Imo their numbers are somewhat appropriate, it's just that they feel bad now because you're coming down from them being overtuned on release.

The model after 3 pay-to-own classes is:
1. release overpowered class
2. make minor changes to tweak damage downward during the next few months
3. when the next “pay-to-win” content is released, really nerf it so that you must play in the new purchased content to stay relevant.

necro’s were OP when i started. arcanists are OP now.

it’s why most of us want a class change token so we don’t have to keep playing these games.

the problem is that a class change token will short circuit the business model and game balance. so. it’s just a lose-lose situation.

I am not sure when you started but Necros were never really OP. Major Vulnerability was OP but besides that Necros has had the same issues since it landed on live which were very buggy summons, unreliable dot pressure from the tether because of LoS and a very slow spammable. When the ultimate Major Vulnerability was on was changed, everyone dropped Necro because it wasn’t needed any longer for top scores which a lot of them liked because they all hated playing Necros.

The closest necro came to being OP was when ZOS buffed DoTs but that was more soul trap and entropy than Necros.

Also, Arcanists aren’t really OP right now it’s more like that dw/vateshran build is. Outside of that Arcanists are strong but also have some real holes.

This. Necro has never been OP. Major Vuln was overtuned at launch and BashCro was hitting faster than intended.

Everything else about the class has been functionally broken since launch.

It’s a shame as I enjoy my cro.

Those saying sorc is just as bad but ignore the poor state of blades 🤣🤣

We don’t even talk about warden dps. But at least wardens and blades bring something to the team as healers. Same as sorcs with the atro synergy.

festegios wrote: »

It’s a shame as I enjoy my cro.

Those saying sorc is just as bad but ignore the poor state of blades 🤣🤣

We don’t even talk about warden dps. But at least wardens and blades bring something to the team as healers. Same as sorcs with the atro synergy.

my warden and nb have no problem in vet dungeons its just they take longer to kill things but are better at other things while killing too which is why the nb is usually relegated to normal along with sorc and occasionally warden only because of the state of random groups at the moment nothing to do with wether they can get the job done, also with warden is very good at handling pack mobs which some tanks dont like to see along with the ones that ignore pack mobs altogether. still, never played necro as damage though. my nb also did all the lifting for my other characters in arenas never had any reason to use another class there

TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »

patrick.loiselleb16_ESO wrote: »

TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »

The performance and bugs are another issue and should totally be addressed, but regarding damage Necro has access to major vuln so the reality is that their personal dps should be slightly lower to compensate for what they can bring to the table with that debuff. Imo their numbers are somewhat appropriate, it's just that they feel bad now because you're coming down from them being overtuned on release.

Around 20k difference based on dummy tests? And we're bound to be support?

I just did a youtube search and found Ninja Pulls has a 123k necro guide that can still be min maxed further
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYkINXERYhI&ab_channel=NinjaPulls

Are you telling me that there classes pulling 143k on the dummy?
Also you're not bound to be support but the fact that you have access to major vuln means that the class has to be balanced around the existence of the debuff. if the class did as much damage as other classes and had major vuln there'd be zero reason to bring non necro dps. Which did indeed happen in elswyr.

Yes and sorc does 137k dps doesn't mean the class doesn't feel awfull to play due to forcing people to use pets and skills they don't like to reach those numbers.

Plus blastbones having travel time really messes rotations sometimes.

Also major vulnerability?

archdruid-devyric
kynmarchers-cruelty
turning-tide

here's 3 sets that give it. And it's not tied to a ultimate.

My cro hits hard in PVE. Single target is lacking but aoe damage is off the chain. Nirn + Azurblight and every ability hits 3+ targets.

Templar and Sorcerer have been ignored even longer than Necromancer. Welcome to the show! Lol.

With their new structure implemented for yearly releases and such, I think the only time we’ll see larger class reworks potentially will be Q1 or Q2 since Q3 will be larger bug fixes/QOL and Q4 will be systems additions.

So cheers to more hopium for some desired (key word here is desired) class changes for all of us in Update 41!

IncultaWolf wrote: »

Cooperharley wrote: »

Templar and Sorcerer have been ignored even longer than Necromancer. Welcome to the show! Lol.

With their new structure implemented for yearly releases and such, I think the only time we’ll see larger class reworks potentially will be Q1 or Q2 since Q3 will be larger bug fixes/QOL and Q4 will be systems additions.

So cheers to more hopium for some desired (key word here is desired) class changes for all of us in Update 41!

That's simply not true, when you say templar and sorcerer have been ignored for longer. They get buffs almost every patch and both those classes have on demand stuns, both have executes, both have gap closers, both have sources of major brutality/sorcery..I could keep going. Templar and sorc feel really good to play, and if I had the option I would class change my necromancer to either one of those. Also you don't get a bounty and attacked by guards for simply pressing an ability in a town I wouldn't mind this mechanic, if the actual class itself was strong, but all the criminal act abilites are meme tier

I agree. We see balance being made for these two classes (and others) during patches. I'm sure that some of this ''balancing'' upsets the class but they also get more perks usually. We have what? Vuln? Which everyone can get now. There are LOS issues; we're forced to use the same skill repeatedly... I don't think that the ZOS crew understands the problems and if they do, it's likely that they do not know how to fix it. I'm not trying to attack anyone. I do think that it would be difficult to rebalance the entire class (not super easy). People have given many suggestions, and they are ignored. I've read many threads where necromancers gave ideas, and none are ever used. I don't see what the harm in trying is. I would love to switch to a sorc of a templar, btw! I've accepted that I'm going to be an EC-CRO and that's it.

Vorkk8383 wrote: »

Rogue_WolfESO wrote: »

Skinnycheeks wrecks with his necro in pvp, so not sure what more is needed. Git gud issue?

The issue is in PVE.

You have it backwards. It's because of PvP, or rather how the PvP game mode is implemented into ESO, that we have such an unbalanced situation across the rest of the game.

ZhuJiuyin wrote: »

No, Necromancer is good in PVE.
You can know by simply comparing ESO LOG
Only 3 classes in the top 100 DPS are behind
Sorc,NB,Warden
Although Necr cannot compete with DK or Arca, it can still achieve top 100 results in various trials.
In comparison, NB, Warden, and Sorc are still at the bottom in PVE.
Please do not use the analysis of the dummy as a basis, because BOSS is not a dummy, and actual combat is not a simulation.

I already admitted that comparing dummy parses was wrong in this thread.

The issue is that we're bugged. We are not where we should be as DPS. Far from it. I see ZOS balancing other classes and ignoring us. It's not a great feeling.

ESO_CenturionPlayer wrote: »

TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »

patrick.loiselleb16_ESO wrote: »

TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »

The performance and bugs are another issue and should totally be addressed, but regarding damage Necro has access to major vuln so the reality is that their personal dps should be slightly lower to compensate for what they can bring to the table with that debuff. Imo their numbers are somewhat appropriate, it's just that they feel bad now because you're coming down from them being overtuned on release.

Around 20k difference based on dummy tests? And we're bound to be support?

I just did a youtube search and found Ninja Pulls has a 123k necro guide that can still be min maxed further
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYkINXERYhI&ab_channel=NinjaPulls

Are you telling me that there classes pulling 143k on the dummy?
Also you're not bound to be support but the fact that you have access to major vuln means that the class has to be balanced around the existence of the debuff. if the class did as much damage as other classes and had major vuln there'd be zero reason to bring non necro dps. Which did indeed happen in elswyr.

That uniqueness of necro’s is now easily obtainable through sets which makes them useless in PvE if that’s the only reason you bring them.

https://youtu.be/1_JxOfuyIF4?si=xbuT9b3OMMhEidS7

ZhuJiuyin wrote: »

No, Necromancer is good in PVE.
You can know by simply comparing ESO LOG
Only 3 classes in the top 100 DPS are behind
Sorc,NB,Warden
Although Necr cannot compete with DK or Arca, it can still achieve top 100 results in various trials.
In comparison, NB, Warden, and Sorc are still at the bottom in PVE.
Please do not use the analysis of the dummy as a basis, because BOSS is not a dummy, and actual combat is not a simulation.

Id have to see the build sheet. I cant think of a single team that uses a cro as a full damage dps. They are either support as ec/mk/spaulder or ots doing sax/colo procs.

Speaking for myself...

I don't feel like the issue with Necro is really the damage it does, but the interactions with skills is just clunky and less fun than other classes. There are too many times when I should be ready to recast blast bones in my rotation, but the skeleton decided to RP for a couple of seconds instead of exploding on the target and I can't cast it yet. Other skills require targeting a corpse which may not be available, or might be behind you. On a dummy, it is not a big deal, because nobody sets up LoS issues with their trial dummy before doing a parse, and since the dummy doesn't move the corpses are always basically in the same place, so you know where to target.

Its really just a effort vs reward situation. Given roughly the same DPS would you rather have the class that requires more effort and is harder to manage in content, or the one that is easier? If I have to choose whether I want to DPS on a Necromancer or any other class, I will choose the other class, so I don't have to deal with finding corpses and Blast Bones that don't find a target. IMO, this is why even though most trial groups want an "EC-Cro" nobody wants to run it unless they have to.

I'm not certain if these are your complaints, but this is why I don't like running a Necromancer even though I like a lot about the aesthetic of it.

My advice would be to put together an "EC-Cro" build and get good at that if you want to run a Necromancer, and then nobody will care if your parse is the best.

I have to agree with the OP. My Necro dps is among the lowest dps of any of my 19 characters.

Which is a shame because thematically and visually I enjoy Necro.

I have made an effective Necro tank, and enjoy playing that (though my DK and Warden tanks would generally get picked ahead of it).

That is all.